Removed by Moderator

[th3kuzinator]

wut ^ said about DI

uair chains are much safer in general.

 

[Evil Iggy]

I actually didn't know that about the dair... but can't you DI out of the uair chain as well? Maybe that's just my poor spacing.

Also, compared to just about everyone else's recovery, his is pretty bad. Then again, I play pikachu, so there you go. I used to play Luigi before I got rallied by some kid playing Kirby. Freaking drill kick...

Oh, and 'defense', not 'defence'... that's embarrassing... I've been playing too many JRPG's...

 

[th3kuzinator]

his recovery is arguably better than everyone's except pikachu and mario.

And you can DI out of anything with hax di. DI'ing out of uair chains = 10x harder than out of drills

 

[Wenbobular]

Yeah how is Luigi's recovery bad at all xD he makes it back from anything distancewise and has options in how he recovers and isn't a total sitting duck like a lot of characters

 

[Evil Iggy]

Yeah how is Luigi's recovery bad at all xD he makes it back from anything distancewise and has options in how he recovers and isn't a total sitting duck like a lot of characters

With Kirby and Jiggs, floating away is always an option. Ness's is a little tricky, but using the Up+B early (above the platforms, aiming down from far away, and switching that up throughout the match with blasting over the stage) will surprise a lot of people. Pikachu's is obviously better with both speed and distance. Mario can fake with the tornado. I'm fairly certain Yoshi has more distance capability than Luigi, though he can be a sitting duck. Luigi's is really floaty, and vulnerable to off-the-edge attacks by Pikachu and Kirby. His fireball requires him to be at a lower height so that he can hit the person edgeguarding him. Not to mention, you can't fake the edgeguarder with the tornado because it doesn't make him float very well like Mario's.

I'll tell you now that my Luigi knowledge isn't nearly as vast as yours. From my experience, though, he is a very easy target in the air, and can't do half the maneuvers to avoid the edgeguard that many others characters can.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Recovery (From best to worst)
1. Pikachu (UPB has really good range in all directions pika also has multiple periods of invulnerability during the move)
2. Mario (Great Vertical Recovery, Mario Tornado, Fireballs, good priority UPB)
3. Luigi (Great Vertical Recovery, Luigi Tornado, somewhat fireballs, upb has good range (not the best priority)
4. Kirby (A large amount of horizontal and vertical distance due to jumps, upb has good vertical)
5. Samus (very floaty, bomb recovery, invulnerability at start of upb)
6. Yoshi (Knockback resistance at most percents)
7. Jiggs (Good horizontal recovery because of jumps, even more horizontal because of pound recovery)
8. DK (Upb good horizontal, DK's arms are invincible)
9. Fox (Easy-ish to predict and sub-par upb priority)
10. Falcon (Easier to predict than fox's and only has a few frames of actually good range. The rest are too easy to edgeguard)
11. Link (good hitbox, terrible distance. Very vulnerable from the top)
12. Ness (I could write an essay why Ness' recovery is terrible. PAINFULLY easy to predict before and after upb is used. At top of ness' recovery he stalls in the air for a long time before able to fast fall. If lands on the stage W/O fastfall --> 16 frames of lag, with fastfall its 32 frames (THATS HALF A SECOND). Even if lucky enough to grab ledge, all getup options are mediocre and ledgehopping with ness' second jump is easily punishable and ness is back to square one. Oh, did I forget that all one has to do it hover above ness for a second and intercept his pk thunder and ness is done. Any DECENT edgeguarder should not be able to let Ness recover once he is off the stage.)

Its been discussed before. This is thought of to be a decent list. Luigi and kirby could switch spots, its debatable.

 

[Evil Iggy]

...well, I stand corrected. But that's why I come here, isn't it xD

I still don't think that Luigi really stands a chance off the edge, but who am I to tell someone not to play him? I love that drunken plumber like a brother, too...

Thanks for the info, by the way. There aren't any real chances to play really good players where I live, and find this out for myself. I'm just going by experience, here...

 

[asianaussie]

most characters suck off-stage lol...

this isn't brawl

 

[th3kuzinator]

oh its no problem!

I am not trying to put you down or anything, just wanted to post the list. This is also a list based on a few opinions, good ones, but still opinions. It is not the end all, and changes could be made to it. Luigi is a fun character, mostly cause it is necessary to trick your opponent to win.

You should consider buying an adapter and playing online. I have pretty much dominated anyone in 100 miles locally so I just play online with everyone here.

You will get better, quicker. That is, if you want to.

 

[Evil Iggy]

most characters suck off-stage lol...

this isn't brawl

Are you saying I'm a brawl player? Ouch... the worst of smash-based insults -_-

 

[th3kuzinator]

most characters suck off-stage lol...

this isn't brawl

And the sweet spotting is not ridiculous

oh brawl.

 

[asianaussie]

i just think of it as a spin-off from the main series

still a legit party game

 

[Evil Iggy]

oh its no problem!

I am not trying to put you down or anything, just wanted to post the list. This is also a list based on a few opinions, good ones, but still opinions. It is not the end all, and changes could be made to it. Luigi is a fun character, mostly cause it is necessary to trick your opponent to win.

You should consider buying an adapter and playing online. I have pretty much dominated anyone in 100 miles locally so I just play online with everyone here.

You will get better, quicker. That is, if you want to.

Wait... adapter? Tell me of the witchcraft your mystical "adapter" utilizes! Is it just over an emulator, or is there a site dedicated to this sort of thing?

This is the best smash-related news I've heard since the melee tournies I found downtown!

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah there is an emulator called p64k which lets you play any sort of n64 game (smash included) over a kaillera server.

If you use an n64 controller to play the game, you can buy an n64 to computer adapter and just configure your controls and be good to go.

Playing over kaillera is free and most everyone in this section plays online. Its nice, if you dont have time to travel for smash. More info can be found here

Send me PMs if you have any trouble

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

luigi's upb gets edgeguarded too easily for my liking.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

I'm fairly certain Yoshi has more distance capability than Luigi

.......

he is a very easy target in the air, and can't do half the maneuvers to avoid the edgeguard that many others characters can.

PLEASE STOP IT!!!

The only true thing you said was this...

I'll tell you now that my Luigi knowledge isn't nearly as vast as yours.

Try to really know something before saying anything...

Spoiler

Sorry! my intention isn't make you feel bad, but to make you realize of one of the great SSB characters.

 

[rpotts]

With Kirby and Jiggs, floating away is always an option. Ness's is a little tricky, but using the Up+B early (above the platforms, aiming down from far away, and switching that up throughout the match with blasting over the stage) will surprise a lot of people. Pikachu's is obviously better with both speed and distance. Mario can fake with the tornado. I'm fairly certain Yoshi has more distance capability than Luigi, though he can be a sitting duck. Luigi's is really floaty, and vulnerable to off-the-edge attacks by Pikachu and Kirby. His fireball requires him to be at a lower height so that he can hit the person edgeguarding him. Not to mention, you can't fake the edgeguarder with the tornado because it doesn't make him float very well like Mario's.

I'll tell you now that my Luigi knowledge isn't nearly as vast as yours. From my experience, though, he is a very easy target in the air, and can't do half the maneuvers to avoid the edgeguard that many others characters can.

Lurk moar. a lot moar. You have 17 posts and you can't have been here for more than 6 days. Most of the things you said were wrong.

First off, for jiggs, floating away is not always an option. Anytime you get hit off stage with a spike (or dsmash/dtilt at the ledge) at any percent greater than or equal to 0 you can't float away without either not making it, or reducing your options to grabbing the ledge, which leaves you incredibly vulnerable to edgehogging, or easy edgeguards. (another spike/dtilt, no upb -> death)

Ness' recovery never surprises anyone. rly
Ness sucks

Yoshi's recovery distance < Luigi's recovery distance

Luigis tornado recovery = Marios tornado recovery

You are correct about Luigi's floatiness negatively affecting his recovery and his fireballs being less (:read: not) useful for anti-edgeguarding

imo the biggest flaw in luigi's recovery (at least when compared directly to mario's) is his upb priority. Check out the hitbox thread located somewhere on the mainpage of the 64 section. Compare marios upb to luigis, you should notice that Mario's has a huge hitbox in front and above him that often times counters edgeguards (even broken ones like kirbys dair.) Luigi's upb has a great hitbox at the very beginning, but during the rising animation he lacks the large shielding hitbox that mario's has and thus gets edgeguarded more easily when trying to sweet spot the ledge, as most chars can sh dair or whatever and at the very least tie hits, which means luigi loses a stock (or has a lengthy vertical recovery remaining) and the edgeguarder gets 1% lol.

 

[The Star King]

Wow @ the above two posts telling him not to post, really?

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

No!!! that's not what I meant.
It's telling him to make sure what he is going to say make any sense before saying it.

 

[rpotts]

there's an advantage to lurking and learning before posting. Quality of posts, not quantity.

Plus i didn't just say "dun post nemore," I attempted to counter all of the misguided arguments that he made with clear responses without being too harsh.

 

[TANK64]

I try sweet spotting with upB, then ledge DIing the inevitable edgeguard. I get to do that a couple times, then I really get hit and die. It buys me 30 seconds to figure out what I did wrong, and how I want to play the next stock.

Man I really got to start reverse ledge DIing.

 

[B Link]

So I've been practicing Luigi recently...but the thing is, everyone I play when they see me use Luigi they switch to fox or samus. So I don't get to try Luigi against other characters.

On top of that, most people I play quit after 2 to 3 matches. And once they win, they're DONE. NO MORE. "ggs" they'll say. It's like they're thinking "finally that took forever I knew I could beat this annoying Luigi player now I'm outta here"

So yeah...

In other news, I've been having trouble against Falcon opponents. I think it's because I get impatient from not being able to approach easily and get frustrated when I get uair combo'd like hell. Thoughts?

 

[ciaza]

Thoughts? Come to Australia =p

Luigi vs. Falcon on Hyrule is tough. I think it's best to stay in tent for some easy tent combos or on the left of stage for some easy gimps against him.

 

[rpotts]

avoid his dash grab with SH dair - uair, careful not to get upsmashed, though not much will combo after an upsmash when you're above 0%. Falcons like to tech-roll, and since luigi is tied for slowest dash speed, they'll probably tech roll away often. Unfortunately this is oftentimes unpunishable for luigi, you might try dash shielding towards them and shield the upsmash, but then you'll slide too far away, **** i hate weeg.

 

[Tech_EDGE]

edit...........

 

[The Star King]

Am I the only one who doesn't like sh dair fastfall uair? I hear people saying how good it is all the time, but I just do a "sideways" short-hop (for slightly decreased height) -> uair.

 

[asianaussie]

That's what I do as well whenever I venture into using Luigi. It's probably because I don't use Mario or SHDL with Fox, and hence don't ever try to do standing short hops.

 

[The Star King]

Well, that's definitely not the reason for me. It's just that I feel like you can connect more hits of the dair with a reduced height short hop.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Am I the only one who doesn't like sh dair fastfall uair? I hear people saying how good it is all the time, but I just do a "sideways" short-hop (for slightly decreased height) -> uair.

This.

Or you can do dair into ff nair to hit their shield or w/e.

 

[Luigisama]

Is everything here written in an unknown language? I fail to see how Luigi is bad at spacing and approaching.
I'll just make a quick list of who Luigi is good against and who he has trouble against. Then when I can I'll add more to it.

Pikachu (even)Its simple don't be stupid and fall for any crap set up thunders. Also side tilt a destroys thundershocks.

Fox(bad) yeah you know dair into upsmash, but with good bair spacing and nairs you should have no problem.

Captain falcon(even) This really can go either way especially since Luigi can camp Captain falcon.

Donkey Kong (Luigi's favor) Bair space and fair approaches.

Mario(even) Mario's fire balls are annoying, but Luigi is better in his down b recovery

Link(Luigi's favor) more info later

Jigglypuff(luigi's favor)more info later

Samus (Luigi's favor)more info later

Yoshi (even)more info later

Ness (hard)more info later

Kirby (Luigi's favor)more info later

 

[asianaussie]

Is everything here written in an unknown language? I fail to see how Luigi is bad at spacing and approaching.
I'll just make a quick list of who Luigi is good against and who he has trouble against. Then when I can I'll add more to it.

It's simple, you haven't played anyone who can abuse Luigi's faults. That's hardly your fault though.

Pikachu (even)Its simple don't be stupid and fall for any crap set up thunders. Also side tilt a destroys thundershocks.

Judging from your decisions, I would say the Pikas you play don't touch the A button.

Fox(bad) yeah you know dair into upsmash, but with good bair spacing and nairs you should have no problem.

Yeah, since Fox's moves are all slower than B-Air, don't beat N-Air and he can't camp you with lasers.

Captain falcon(even) This really can go either way especially since Luigi can camp Captain falcon.

Yeah, no. Luigi can't camp Falcon, as Falcon's everything beats fireballs and most of what Luigi has.

Donkey Kong (Luigi's favor) Bair space and fair approaches.

Stopped caring, sorry, this one is just silly.

Kirby (Luigi's favor)more info later

Please justify this one first, I'd like to see your reasoning.

 

[ciaza]

EDIT: Actually, I'll wait for the more info I promised before going into what I have to say.

aa covered most stuff anyway.

 

[Battlecow]

Bro, it might seem like code or something, but that's because we assume that the readers know what they're talking about. You do not. That's just facts; you can believe me or not but it's plain as day. The game, believe it or not, is a lot more complicated than you think it is when played at a high level. For example, no good pikachu is going to be using thunder in any escapable situation, and destroying thundershocks shouldn't be an issue. Also, spacing with Bair as much as you evidently do is gonna get you ****ed up.

Now, you could take into consideration the possibility that people who care about the game to the pathetic extent that we do are telling the truth when they say that weegee isn't one of the better characters and has trouble spacing (and then maybe learn to play him so that you pwn hardcore), or you could refuse to acknowledge that your favorite character isn't the best and that you are balls at this game.

 

[asianaussie]

hey, retreating thunders are sometimes legit

sometimes

ciaza, get on kaillera and/or facebook because you were too busy orgy'ing to give me an answer last night

 

[Battlecow]

I've never seen it used effectively. Regardless, it shouldn't be one of 2 important factors deciding a matchup.

 

[ciaza]

Agreed on both. Thunder is underrated but it shouldn't be considered when determining a match-up.

Battlecow quit editing you're giving me epilepsy.

I'm on facebook aa, can't get on kaillera as I'm at uni.

 

[Battlecow]

Maybe it's good against Australians.

 

[ciaza]

It's good when you know how to space or get lucky with a prediction.

Most of all it's amazing to use on a Yoshi recovering low.

Ledge hop>thunder is also useful for a flashy edgegaurd against opponent's with a predicatable/**** recovery.

 

[Battlecow]

... Or maybe spacing with thunder is still good at an Australian level of play.

Spoiler

I kid, I kid

 

[asianaussie]

It's not exactly a staple of anyone's play

We mess around during what we call 'friendlies', a concept that must be foreign to most Americans.

Spoiler

yes, that was a joke