Regarding aura gain.

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
742
#1
Hi everyone. I’ll be labbing out Luc today for his aura. Some big changes I’ve noticed are aura seems to actually be ridiculous around 100% now. Aura Sphere doing 24%, uair and dair doing 15.4% (give or take some decimals with dair), bair doing almost 20% (!), and fair doing 8.4% (give or take a few decimals). His fsmash is doing right at 23% uncharged with usmash and dsmash doing about 20% respectively each. Grab FP is also ridiculous. 18%, 16% with FP flame at the bulk.

Also his fsmash doesn’t seem to extend his hurtbox anymore. He’s got his Brawl fsmash back to a degree, but it’s still weaker from far off. Also I checked out Lucario’s character description and well, they brought back his Brawl mechanic where his damage lowers if you take the lead, and increases as you fall behind, so that’ll take some serious lab work.

Hopefully you all will like the changes to Luc in Ultimate. I’m digging it so far. Also his base power at 0% even stocks isn’t actually increased that much, if at all from Smash 4. Luc is incredibly fast in the air this time around. I think the 5/6 best air speed tied with Wolf?
 
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Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
742
#3
I have up to 100% done for Lucario. Latest information has been updated to the document.
 

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
291
#4
Maybe it's because I'm using the new graph paper Training Stage and relying on the KO "red lighting" visual, but it seems like back throw is doing a lot less knockback in general.
Knockback distance still seems to scale with both aura and enemy percent, but I'm worried he lost a kill throw.

Can't find anything online yet about Ultimate Lucario's throws, you find anything?
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
742
#5
Maybe it's because I'm using the new graph paper Training Stage and relying on the KO "red lighting" visual, but it seems like back throw is doing a lot less knockback in general.
Knockback distance still seems to scale with both aura and enemy percent, but I'm worried he lost a kill throw.

Can't find anything online yet about Ultimate Lucario's throws, you find anything?
Yeah, it's the same exact thing I've experienced. Bthrow no longer kills reliably at all.
 

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
291
#6
OK so I did a bit of labbing on the Training Stage.
Used Mario as the opponent for his middle weight status and the stage graph and launch distance calculator to measure how far certain characters could throw Mario. I had my character stand at the 0,0 mark and throw Mario to the right with him at different percents (and also Lucario at different percents in his case for the aura).
For the sake of a unit of measurement that the Training Stage Graph uses, I will call them Meters.

This is very imprecise, but here's what I found:

Ness BackThrow:
Mario @ 50% = 7.9m
Mario @ 100% = 17.7m
Mario @ 150% = 31.3m


Ness's back throw is probably the strongest in the game, so we can use that as a high end baseline. We know that Ness can kill Mario around 90% or so at the end of FD, so that 17m distance is probably around KO range.
Now, Mewtwo's BackThrow is also a KO throw, so we can use that as a lower baseline knowing something in this range still KO's reliably:

Mewtwo BackThrow:
Mario @ 50% = 10.1m
Mario @ 100% = 15.5m
Mario @ 150% = 22.0m

People are also talking about how Samus and Zelda both received back throw buffs that now make the Kill throws also. If we look at those:

Zelda BackThrow:
Mario @ 50% = 8.4m
Mario @ 100% = 15.3m
Mario @ 150% = 24.5

Samus BackThrow:
Mario @ 50% = 8.3m
Mario @ 100% = 11.6m
Mario @ 150% = 15.4m

So Zelda definitely has a KO backthrow, and apparently that range can be as low as 15m if Samus's back throw can also KO.

***

Now for Lucario's numbers:

Lucario BackThrow @ 50%:
Mario @ 50% = 5.1m
Mario @ 100% = 8.4m
Mario @ 150% = 12.3m

At this low aura percent, you'd have to have Mario around 200% to KO. Otherwise, nope.

Lucario BackThrow @ 100%:
Mario @ 50% = 5.9m
Mario @ 100% = 10.2m
Mario @ 150% = 15.5m

So at this range, back throw might start to KO since it has about the same power as Samus's Bthrow.

Lucario BackThrow @ 150%:
Mario @ 50% = 7m
Mario @ 100% = 12.5m
Mario @ 150% = 19.5m

Now here's where we get into KO Bthrow range close to Mewtwo and Zelda, but not quite there. Should still be enough to KO all but the heavies.

I can't remember exactly how early I could KO people off the edge, but I'm pretty sure it was earlier than it fees like it will be in Ultimate based on these results. The other thing is that with Lucario's 7 unit weight nerf, he's not going to be reaching these high aura percents as often anyway.

Another thing of note is that Lucario's back throw is still his strongest throw. UpThrow does KO, but it doesn't reach Mewtwo's UpThrow power until Lucario is at max aura.
 
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