Reflects vs Counters

[Conda]

Which tool is shaping up to be the most useful so far in the meta? However the meta develops will inevitably make one of these tools more generally useful and bolstering than the other.

 

[Loki]

I dare say counters. They are not only more common but have a bigger and quicker payback. Also, most counters have multipliers above 1x while most reflects are under 1x. AND ALSO, with projectiles being nerfed overall, reflects arent that strong nor useful on the long run unlike counters.

They both have their uses, but counters are less situational and character-dependant than reflects.

 

[Evello]

Reflects are amazing against a select few projectile campers, but I feel counters are generally more useful. Especially Shulk's. The amount of active frames is absurd.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I dare say counters. They are not only more common but have a bigger and quicker payback. Also, most counters have multipliers above 1x while most reflects are under 1x. AND ALSO, with projectiles being nerfed overall, reflects arent that strong nor useful on the long run unlike counters.

They both have their uses, but counters are less situational and character-dependant than reflects.

http://smashboards.com/threads/counters-reflectors-and-absorbs-wip.369298/

There is not a single reflector with a multiplier under 1.0x

 

[Loki]

Oh I stand corrected then. Dunno why I remembered that reflectors where mostly under 1x.

However my point still stands. Overall counters are more useful, less situational and less match-up dependant. Also, there arent that many projectiles that hit as hard as a smash attack.

 

[Gawain]

Oh I stand corrected then. Dunno why I remembered that reflectors where mostly under 1x.

However my point still stands. Overall counters are more useful, less situational and less match-up dependant. Also, there arent that many projectiles that hit as hard as a smash attack.

You clearly haven't gone against any really good projectile users. Playing against a good Greninja or a good Mario or a good Link will make you beg for that reflector.

 

[Loki]

Thats still not enough to overweight counters. Again, outside certain match-ups, you'll find yourself more thankful of having a counter than having a reflector on your down-B.

 

[OnettGirl]

I think both are pretty good. Obviously counter are going to be better as they are less situational and a bit easier to use correctly. However i'm pleased with Pit/Dark Pit's reflector, it's come in handy in so many occasions, against characters like Link, Greninja and especially Robin who'm i've caught off guard plenty of times with a well times down B as they use thoron. I just need to learn how to read better.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

To me Shulk has the best counter and Mario the best reflect.
As dangerous as Instant Counter is, Mario's cape reflects...a damn lot of things and has stronger recovery benefits.

 

[warionumbah2]

To me Shulk has the best counter and Mario the best reflect.
As dangerous as Instant Counter is, Mario's cape reflects...a damn lot of things and has stronger recovery benefits.

Ness has the best reflector, not including custom moves he multiplies the projectile by 2 while mario is 1.5.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Ness has the best reflector, not including custom moves he multiplies the projectile by 2 while mario is 1.5.

I do not believe, Ness Reflects R.O.B's D-air.

 

[warionumbah2]

I do not believe, Ness Reflects R.O.B's D-air.

Mario can reflect Robs Dair???? O__o

I'm talking about reflecting about overall since you said Mario has the best one.

 

[Conda]

Mario can reflect Robs Dair???? O__o

I'm talking about reflecting about overall since you said Mario has the best one.

The best one for actual use, yes.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Mario can reflect Robs down air, and Rob will be meteor'd.
He can do it to megaman as well, including megamans up air.
Everyone knows about how he reflects movement skills as well, like a luigi charge.
So pretty sure he has teh best reflect.\

 

[ParanoidDrone]

...ROB's dair is a projectile now? It's still the fire burst from his base, right?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

The best reflector in the game is Palutena's. Followed by probably Fox or Falco

The best counter in the game is Shulk's.
Followed by Palutena's.

 

[Kidney Thief]

The best fights are Falcon vs Falcon. No reflectors, no counters, no projectiles just raw fighting

 

[JCDied4U]

The best fights are Falcon vs Falcon. No reflectors, no counters, no projectiles just raw fighting

No, the best fights are Mac vs Mac. No reflectors, no counters, no projectiles and no pansy air fighting, just raw punching.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No reflectors, no counters, no projectiles and no pansy air fighting, just dash attacks.

sigh

ftfy

 

[JCDied4U]

sigh

ftfy

Is the dash attack not a punch?

I was making a joke btw, and a good Mac only uses dashes as a punish against projectile users or a mix up.

 

[ZombieBran]

lol, For Glory Lil Macs

He should be his own character.

 

[Kidney Thief]

No, the best fights are Mac vs Mac. No reflectors, no counters, no projectiles and no pansy air fighting, just raw punching.

But lil Mac has a counter

 

[JCDied4U]

But lil Mac has a counter

Shh, no one has to know.

 

[Kidney Thief]

For real Lil Mac gets #2 in the most fun to fight against characters. The rest is a toss up between characters who's names don't begin with professional camper

 

[DarkKiru]

Speaking of Shulk (and I realize this is probably better asked in his specific discussion forum but this topic is on counters so......)

What exactly happens in terms of Vision as you use it more and more? Do the active frames decrease, and if so by how much?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Mario can reflect Robs down air, and Rob will be meteor'd.
He can do it to megaman as well, including megamans up air.
Everyone knows about how he reflects movement skills as well, like a luigi charge.
So pretty sure he has teh best reflect.\

Once a CP Mario, in all their cheating devilry, spiked me with my own Tornado Shot and killed me, just like that. Ironic because that move is neither spike nor meteor but when reflected it acts like that on you.