Smash 3DS Recovering is way too easy

[XxBHunterxX]

Personally I think that it was terrible choice to take out edge hogging while also increasing the blast zones and having most of the cast with godlike recoveries and combine that with how safe the ledge seems to be teleporting them to it most of the time making it harder than it should be to punish people going for it.

This has been the only smash game so far to where I would consitantly live to over 200% only to be killed by a really precise read, in past games a precise read would grant you a early K'O not one at 200%.

I would be fine with the edge hogging being taken out if the blast zones were smaller or more characters had recoveries that didn't just carry them to the edge of just not have the edge be as forgiving as it is

 

[SevenYearItch]

Personally I think that it was terrible choice to take out edge hogging while also increasing the blast zones and having most of the cast with godlike recoveries and combine that with how safe the ledge seems to be teleporting them to it most of the time making it harder than it should be to punish people going for it.

This has been the only smash game so far to where I would consitantly live to over 200% only to be killed by a really precise read, in past games a precise read would grant you a early K'O not one at 200%.

I would be fine with the edge hogging being taken out if the blast zones were smaller or more characters had recoveries that didn't just carry them to the edge of just not have the edge be as forgiving as it is

Idk who you're playing against, but unless I'm playing someone i'm messing around with neither myself nor the opponent ever get to 200%.....Need to learn your kill moves because I get them as early as 60% and have been gimped by good players at like 40% when I didn't see it coming.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Idk who you're playing against, but unless I'm playing someone i'm messing around with neither myself nor the opponent ever get to 200%.....Need to learn your kill moves because I get them as early as 60% and have been gimped by good players at like 40% when I didn't see it coming.

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

 

[SevenYearItch]

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

Thats sweetspot knee near the edge from Falcon on most of the cast.

 

[xXShadeXx]

200%? People have a hard time lasting over 60% without me screwing up their recovery or something. Besides kill moves, you know the objective is to chase them off stage and make sure they can't recover right?

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Thats sweetspot knee near the edge from Falcon on most of the cast.

The knee of justice is beautiful, but I just think the blast zones are way too big to have the edge be as safe as it is and same with the recoveries

 

[SevenYearItch]

The knee of justice is beautiful, but I just think the blast zones are way too big to have the edge be as safe as it is and same with the recoveries

I agree, the edge is safe to play and I would like some edge guarding mechanics. But with proper play I haven't found it even being a thought for me. I get kills at about 130% on most chars with uair, Charged smashes and the Knee of Justice kill at about 60% at the edge, and gimping gets me a ton of early kills. Utilt meteor to someone right before they get the ledge has nabbed me kills as low as 20%

 

[goodspeed87]

I prefer being incentivized to finish my opponent off-stage, it's challenging & oh so rewarding.

Killing from center-stage shouldn't be easy to accomplish. This game differentiates itself in that it doesn't have your typical Health Bar.

You're meant to fight to ring-out your opponent.

 

[Raijinken]

Chase off-stage. Suddenly, offstage play is both rewarding (indeed, almost vital), and actually somewhat safe.

Edgehogging was the worst, don't wish for it back.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I prefer being incentivized to finish my opponent off-stage, it's challenging & oh so rewarding.

Killing from center-stage shouldn't be easy to accomplish. This game differentiates itself in that it doesn't have your typical Health Bar.

You're meant to fight to ring-out your opponent.

I never said it should be easy nor has it ever been easy in the past game, I just think it shouldn't be as forgiving of players who have high percentage, because the point is the percentage is that the higher you are the more attacks that can kill you, vectoring is also a thing in this game which is used like DI.

 

[Raijinken]

I never said it should be easy nor has it ever been easy in the past game, I just think it shouldn't be as forgiving of players who have high percentage, because the point is the percentage is that the higher you are the more attacks that can kill you, vectoring is also a thing in this game which is used like DI.

If you chase them and edgeguard off-stage using that simplicity of recovery, you can totally destroy their (in most cases very predictable and low-priority) recovery moves. Anything that works for them works for you.

People used to love edgehogging because it was a risk-free means of securing a kill. Now, chasing is largely risk-free. It makes things more interesting.

 

[SevenYearItch]

I just got a 0-Kill on stream ending with a meteor at about 50% on a Jiggs right at the edge. Recovery isn't that fine

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Chase off-stage. Suddenly, offstage play is both rewarding (indeed, almost vital), and actually somewhat safe.

Edgehogging was the worst, don't wish for it back.

Edge hogging is bad when when there is nothing to balance it out same with with the new mechanic because there's no point I'm adding it if everyone has a decent enough recovery to just make on the stage anyway and since the ledge grants invincibility players tend to aim for it because the ledge has better priority than any attack you do

 

[xXShadeXx]

Edge hogging is bad when when there is nothing to balance it out same with with the new mechanic because there's no point I'm adding it if everyone has a decent enough recovery to just make on the stage anyway and since the ledge grants invincibility players tend to aim for it because the ledge has better priority than any attack you do

Couldn't you easily just hit them if they're going to keep going for the ledge? And also, the ledge doesn't grant invincibility if you continuously hop on and off. And not everyone's recovery is going to get them back to the ledge if you hit them far enough or low enough.

Do you attempt to even chase after them once you knock them off the stage?

 

[Morbi]

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

I am a master at using Jigglypuff's rest to get 60 percent KO's on most of the cast.

As for the original post; I do agree that recovering is fairly easy, but I do not necessarily believe that that is inherently bad. I prefer that "off-stage game" is an important aspect of the meta-game myself. It promotes aggressive play and I love aggressive play!

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Couldn't you easily just hit them if they're going to keep going for the ledge? And also, the ledge doesn't grant invincibility if you continuously hop on and off. And not everyone's recovery is going to get them back to the ledge if you hit them far enough or low enough.

Do you attempt to even chase after them once you knock them off the stage?

No because you knock them off by the time they get back to the ledge they have invincibility

Please though could you spar with me to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong, it's not a challenge I just want to know what you're doing vs what I'm doing

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I am a master at using Jigglypuff's rest to get 60 percent KO's on most of the cast.

As for the original post; I do agree that recovering is fairly easy, but I do not necessarily believe that that is inherently bad. I prefer that "off-stage game" is an important aspect of the meta-game myself. It promotes aggressive play and I love aggressive play!

Melee was way more aggressive than this game is and it had edge hogging so I don't think taking it out made it more aggressive, more so than brawl but that's because brawl was slow

 

[Morbi]

Melee was way more aggressive than this game is and it had edge hogging so I don't think taking it out made it more aggressive, more so than brawl but that's because brawl was slow

I am not really comparing it to any other Smash. I just believe that if edge-hogging were in the game, that would result in Smash 4 being more defensive. But that is just my opinion, of course.

 

[xXShadeXx]

No because you knock them off by the time they get back to the ledge they have invincibility

Please though could you spar with me to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong, it's not a challenge I just want to know what you're doing vs what I'm doing

If you'd like to, then sure.

 

[Spirst]

Melee was way more aggressive than this game is and it had edge hogging so I don't think taking it out made it more aggressive, more so than brawl but that's because brawl was slow

Melee, however, had other factors such as more hitstun, faster speed, and a slew of ATs that also factored into it being aggressive. I do believe that a lack of edge guarding in this game is a component that makes it more aggressive as it forces the player to go offstage to secure the KO. That's aggressive play as opposed to just guarding the edge then grabbing it to gimp their recovery.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I am not really comparing it to any other Smash. I just believe that if edge-hogging were in the game, that would result in Smash 4 being more defensive. But that is just my opinion, of course.

I don't think so because the recoveries like pit's and lucario's are really good and the floaty gravity grants more horizontal distance than vertical meaning you're not forced to use your jump early like in past games

 

[Raijinken]

I am not really comparing it to any other Smash. I just believe that if edge-hogging were in the game, that would result in Smash 4 being more defensive. But that is just my opinion, of course.

I agree with this. Edge-hogging is a defensive, not aggressive, technique. The risk to the user is practically nil.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Melee, however, had other factors such as more hitstun, faster speed, and a slew of ATs that also factored into it being aggressive. I do believe that a lack of edge guarding in this game is a component that makes it more aggressive as it forces the player to go offstage to secure the KO. That's aggressive play as opposed to just guarding the edge then grabbing it to gimp their recovery.

Don't you think the recoveries could have been nerfed a bit to make the anti edge hog relevant? Because I don't have a problem when the anti edge mechanics I do have a problem with people being able to grab the ledge when they're no where near it and combined with the blast zones being as big as they are and not all characters have good kill moves no do they have a good enough recovery to promote off stage fighting, Mario come a to mind when talking about this

 

[XxBHunterxX]

If you'd like to, then sure.

Yes please, I just need some feedback to help me figure out what I'm doing wrong and considering I seem to be the only one who sees this a problem which isn't bad thing but I must be doing something wrong

 

[Raijinken]

Don't you think the recoveries could have been nerfed a bit to make the anti edge hog relevant? Because I don't have a problem when the anti edge mechanics I do have a problem with people being able to grab the ledge when they're no where near it and combined with the blast zones being as big as they are and not all characters have good kill moves no do they have a good enough recovery to promote off stage fighting, Mario come a to mind when talking about this

Mario's recovery is pretty decent, but he also doesn't have to go far off stage. If you hop backwards off and back-air them, not many recoveries will make it through, and it hits at a low enough angle to finish killing them. If they try to recover high, he has his meteor smash instead. And against certain recoveries, you can just Cape them to send them flying away from the edge.

 

[PeterJude]

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

Jigglypuff rest, Ness self-Pk Thunder...

 

[XxBHunterxX]

[

Jigglypuff rest, Ness self-Pk Thunder...

So when you get K'O them is the percentage at 60%? Because that's what I thought he meant then he clarified.

 

[SevenYearItch]

[


So when you get K'O them is the percentage at 60%? Because that's what I thought he meant then he clarified.

That is what I meant. Killed at 60%.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

That is what I meant. Killed at 60%.

I know and you also said off the stage as well meaning you didn't kill from the center. I thought you meant killed him with attack from the center of the stage at 60% which is why I was so surprised

 

[SevenYearItch]

I know and you also said off the stage as well meaning you didn't kill from the center. I thought you meant killed him with attack from the center of the stage at 60% which is why I was so surprised

No, probably not too much higher tbh with the Knee, but I'm talking actual 1v1 strats. Not testing percentages lol If we were going by that, I can see why you have such a hard time killing below 200% and off the edge from the center of the stage haha

 

[Madolche ♦ Procione]

After seeing the title of this thread, Little Mac sheds a single tear.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

No, probably not too much higher tbh with the Knee, but I'm talking actual 1v1 strats. Not testing percentages lol If we were going by that, I can see why you have such a hard time killing below 200% and off the edge from the center of the stage haha

I know and you clarified it like I said you did, I usually use his knee out of the ledge which sends them flying the opposite way and that's a actual 1v1 start as well

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I know and you clarified it like I said you did, I usually use his knee out of the ledge which sends them flying the opposite way and that's a actual 1v1 start as well

Also I tend to have the kill problem with weaker characters like mario because he doesn't seem to have that many follow up options for people off stage

 

[JamesDNaux]

"You must recover!"

Being able to recover is a good thing, it means you have a chance if you get knocked off the stage, recovering is one of the major points of the game. One of the things I disliked in Melee was how everyone dropped like a rock, so I quite enjoy the "floaty" physics of this game and Brawl. Though that's the unpopular opinion, though...

Perhaps the blast zones are a bit large on some stages, at least.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I agree with you about melee being too heavy that's why I think project m was better with it because it had a healthy mix of melee and brawl, they even made some good balances to the recoveries like pit's, where he had the shield bash which didn't hurt his recovery too bad and it became a combo finisher which is a interesting little thing.

I really don't have a problem with the recoveries by themselves it's just when you combine it with the huge blast zones and lenient edge grabs it only serves to keep the player alive instead of punishing them for being reckless enough to be hit that far out

I wonder if the increased blast zones are to compensate for the lack of precision the player might experience on the 3DS, it dumb I know but I can't help but feel that might be the reason for the increase

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

It should be easy... The point isn't to gimp people, the point is to SMASH people out of the screen. You've been watching too much tournament Melee.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

It should be easy... The point isn't to gimp people, the point is to SMASH people out of the screen. You've been watching too much tournament Melee.

so if the point is to only smash people off the stage then why even bother sending them that far off the screen in the first place if they're not even going to get K'O'd by it? I would agree with you but making something easy just to force some style of play that not all characters are capable of seems ridiculous and not well thought out in my opinion. Gimping has always been an option in smash so I don't think that decreasing the blast zones would hurt it at all

 

[SuaveChaser]

I kinda wish recoveries weren't so free and the blastzones weren't so big the game would have a better pace. It was great when people made some crazy recoveries back to the stage now that isn't a thing anymore.

 

[ZombieBran]

200% is certainly OP exaggerating. I would hope.

Recoveries are too good in this game. So many of the newcomers have ridiculous recoveries. I thought this was one of the things generally accepted by the community (even if not everyone sees it as a flaw).

But the overly good recoveries also means edge guarding is safer for many characters.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

200% is certainly OP exaggerating. I would hope.

Recoveries are too good in this game. So many of the newcomers have ridiculous recoveries. I thought this was one of the things generally accepted by the community (even if not everyone sees it as a flaw).

But the overly good recoveries also means edge guarding is safer for many characters.

I wish it was but it only tends to happen to Mario because his moves get you at a higher percentage faster, so when there percentage is high enough your combo game is done, so I find my self having to get very heavy reads at 170%, doesn't happen with falcon because his back air is great and his up air kills at 120%. Mario's my main and falcon's my secondary so you can understand why I'd be mad at the blast zones with the recovery.

It's only easier to edge guard if the player is aiming for the stage, but that's never the case because the ending lag is too long and the ledge is a better option all together because even if I have an attack that would hit you if you got close to the ledge, the game would just teleport you to the ledge granting you invincibility thus a safer recovery. But hey, maybe it's just a Mario problem