Reasons for each character inclusion?

[Swamp Sensei]

From a character select screen standpoint Pokemon has only 4.

The Brawl select screen seems to be organized so each column has as many characters of the same franchise as possible.
And sure enough Yoshi is paired with Wario, as if to imply that like Wario, Yoshi is part of its own franchise.

If my theory is applied
- no more Mario characters (no Toad)
- no more Zelda characters (no Ghiramin)
- no more Pokemon characters (unless one of them is replaced)
But more chars in other franchises are ok. (up to 2 more DK characters, up to 1 more Kirby character, etc)

That said, maybe SSB4 will raise the "limit" to 5. Especially if the character select screen adds a 5th row.

Look at this.

This is Melee's character select screen. They series don't go vertically, do they? The position of the series doesn't really matter as it is open to change, so using that as an argument is pointless.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No but perhaps the character select was decided around the roster.
The 3 franchises with the most characters, all have exactly 4. And 2 Pokemon (Mewtwo and Pichu) were cut -- coincidence?

YES!!!

Pichu was simply cut. There was no plan to bring him back as he was a joke character.

Mewtwo was intended to come back though. They even started to program him. They just couldn't finish due to time.

 

[Opossum]

No but perhaps the character select was decided around the roster.
The 3 franchises with the most characters, all have exactly 4. And 2 Pokemon (Mewtwo and Pichu) were cut -- coincidence?

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[3Bismyname]

congrats to final lap for finding a pattern that doesn't exist.

 

[final lap]

YES!!!

Pichu was simply cut. There was no plan to bring him back as he was a joke character.

Ok, well then it doesn't fit my theory, but at least that explains why he was cut.
For the record, there are no joke characters in Brawl, right? No characters that will obviously be cut?

Mewtwo was intended to come back though. They even started to program him. They just couldn't finish due to time.

Isn't it possible that they didn't decide to add PT or Lucario until later? (or maybe they were programming all 5 until the final decision on the roster was made)

And isn't it possible that the Mewtwo data might have been from early in development, not from right before the game was finished?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Isn't it possible that they didn't decide to add PT or Lucario until later? (or maybe they were programming all 5 until the final decision on the roster was made)

And isn't it possible that the Mewtwo data might have been from early in development, not from right before the game was finished?

Mewtwo data was early from development but they planned on having him, they simply couldn't fit him in the schedule. The final roster (minus Sonic) was made in 2005. The newcomers simply got priority when they were being made which is understandable.

 

[SmashChu]

By game balance what do you mean? Because it sounds like you mean no one franchise should be overrepresented. But that's not what game balance means.

It may be that the meaning didn't come over as well. He could balance of the series, or games.

It's just the game should add variety. The selection should run the gambit.

Also when I think about it, there is perhaps an exception to these rules when it comes to clones. Falco and Wolf are obviously not unique, but being clones of Fox, they get a free pass. Not that I mind clones, just pointing it out.

If the clone adds enough of a different flavor, than I don't think Sakurai has an issue with it. They do play very different even if the special and FS are the same.

 

[final lap]

Of the 4 characters to ever be cut from a Smash game, 3 of them are clones, Mewtwo was the only one that was not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Of the 4 characters to ever be cut from a Smash game, 3 of them are clones, Mewtwo was the only one that was not.

Yet Mewtwo, Roy and Doc were all planned to be in Brawl.
I thought you didn't mind clones.

 

[final lap]

Yet Mewtwo, Roy and Doc were all planned to be in Brawl.
I thought you didn't mind clones.

I don't mind clones, maybe I even like clones, but I'm just trying to figure out the likelihood for a character being added or removed. It will help me decide on my idea for a roster. (and character wishlist)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't really see why the fact that they were clones matters, as they were planned anyway and at least in the case of Mewtwo and Roy, they will likely return.

Now that I think about it, there weren't nearly as many options for another Mario character that would make sense at the time of Melee's release as compared to now as far as Doctor Mario goes. I mean really, Bowser Jr. didn't exist, and Waluigi/Paper Mario didn't really have a solid footing in the series as a whole. Just a thought.

 

[volbound1700]

You argue technically that Mario series has 8 characters

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Wario.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You argue technically that Mario series has 8 characters

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Wario.

Except Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong represent the DK series, Yoshi represents Yoshi's Island and Wario represents WarioWare/Warioland.

 

[volbound1700]

They all are apart of the same universe hence why they all share the same party games. DK and Diddy arguable can be considered there own series but Yoshi and Wario are Mario characters, you cannot tell me they have their own series. Under that logic shouldn't Luigi have his own series now? What about Tails since he had seperate games from main Sonic series (same with Shadow)?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They all are apart of the same universe hence why they all share the same party games. DK and Diddy arguable can be considered there own series but Yoshi and Wario are Mario characters, you cannot tell me they have their own series. Under that logic shouldn't Luigi have his own series now? What about Tails since he had seperate games from main Sonic series (same with Shadow)?

They are counted as their own series because they have individual icons.
Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser all have the Mushroom icon. They represent the Mario series.
Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong have the DK symbol as their icon. They represent the Donkey Kong series.
Yoshi has his egg as his icon. He represents his series.
Wario has the "W" as his icon. He represents his own series.

It's like most of the Marvel superheroes. They all exist in the same universe and they interact from time to time, but they have their own ongoing series at the same time. Make sense?

 

[Diddy Kong]

You argue technically that Mario series has 8 characters

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Wario.

Yoshi yes.

DK, Diddy and Wario: big NO!

 

[final lap]

They all are apart of the same universe hence why they all share the same party games. DK and Diddy arguable can be considered there own series but Yoshi and Wario are Mario characters, you cannot tell me they have their own series.

With Yoshi you have a point, but Wario is explicitly based on WarioWare universe. Furthermore, WarioWare is a series with a surprisingly large amount of games in it.

Under that logic shouldn't Luigi have his own series now?

Luigi, not really. Luigi's Mansion is more of a spinoff than its own franchise. Granted that may change in the future, so maybe SSB5 will count Luigi separately, and introduce more "Luigi universe" characters.

What about Tails since he had seperate games from main Sonic series (same with Shadow)?

ok no. Shadow is not a series, and one game isn't enough to be a series. For the record I think it might be a good idea for Sega to make spinoff series of Sonic chars, but I think this precisely because Sega HAVEN'T done this -- all sonic chars are part of the Sonic series, or from a spinoff Sonic series. (e.g. Jet the Hawk from Sonic Riders)

But this argument doesn't really matter anyway since Sonic characters aren't Nintendo. Maybe when SSB4 comes out and has 4 Sonic characters in it, and then SSB5 is announced, we can get back to this subject.

 

[volbound1700]

Tails has 2-3 games were he is the sole protagonist and Sonic does not make an appearance (in fact one of them is set before he meets Sonic) so Tails does have a seperate series. It was on the handhelds so that is why it is not quite as known.

My point being is that given Yoshi and Wario a seperate series is cheap because other Nintendo series can do that as well. Why not make a spin-off for Falco so that Star Fox can get more characters into the series. At the least in reality, the Mario series has 6 characters, arguable 8.

Wario came from SML 2 and has appeared in Super Mario 64 DS as well as the entire party series. Yoshi started in SMW and has appeared in SMG2, Super Mario Sunshine, NSMB series, and Super Mario 64 DS as well as the RPGs.

I wouldn't be surprise if Luigi gets his own icon series in the next Smash bros lol at the rate this is going.

 

[final lap]

Tails has 2-3 games were he is the sole protagonist and Sonic does not make an appearance (in fact one of them is set before he meets Sonic) so Tails does have a seperate series. It was on the handhelds so that is why it is not quite as known.

It is on Game Gear which is why it doesn't count!
And so what if it happened long ago. I think if Sega brought back Tails as a franchise, people wouldn't go "oh but they did this already" or "We already had enough Tails games and I'm burned out". No, people would be utterly shocked that Tails would be getting his own franchise!

Why not make a spin-off for Falco so that Star Fox can get more characters into the series.

Because then the FBI would find out what they were doing and crack down on them!
It's called franchise limit evasion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It is on Game Gear which is why it doesn't count!

Yeah... That counts.

FBI bit made me chuckle though.