Reasons for each character inclusion?

[BluePikmin11]

I currently am curious on why some characters appeared in Smash games. I wonder if you guys could help me research today these reasons. It will cover the reasons from their inclusion or their cut in 64 to Brawl. This is to help people improve their arguments of characters inclusions or newcomer inclusions. You must post a real source, don't forget.

I currently am updating this as active as possible:



Ice Climbers:
Reason for his inclusion in Melee: Sakurai wanted a character to represent the NES.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1009/index.html


Snake:
Reason for his inclusion in Brawl: Kojima's son (a fan of Super Smash Bros.) begged for his inclusion since Melee was planned. http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/19/thank-kojimas-son-for-getting-snake-into-smash-bros-brawl/

Sonic:
Reason for his inclusion in Brawl: Was the most requested third party character in a Japanese poll in E3 2006. http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/11/e3-2006-fans-asked-to-fill-smash-bros-roster
I'm currently updating now, help me research.

 

[Frostwraith]

Kojima's son didn't beg nothing. Kojima, who's a friend of Sakurai and a fan of Smash Bros., was the one to ask Sakurai.

Seems that Kojima also did it for his son, who wanted to see his father's character in SSB.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'll help, but is this thread about 3rd parties alone or new comers in general?

 

[Vintage Creep]

Well I don't think there's a specific reason out of "It's iconic" for the other characters.
Maybe clones because they're easy to make, Lucario because it was famous when Gen IV came out...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well I don't think there's a specific reason out of "It's iconic" for the other characters.
Maybe clones because they're easy to make, Lucario because it was famous when Gen IV came out...

He still is famous. He's being used to advertise more than Zoroark nowadays.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'll help, but is this thread about 3rd parties alone or new comers in general?

all characters that appeared in Smash, not newcomers of SSB4, maybe we could save that in the future.

 

[3Bismyname]

werent Pichu, Dr. Mario, Falco, Young Link, Roy and Ganandorf added as last minute clones for Melee to round off the cast. i think i heard that somewhere.

and as for the characters that got cut, only Pichu and Young Link seemed to be on purpose as Roy, Dr. Mario. Mewtwo are among the forbidden 7 so they were planned at some point at least. thats all i really know that hasnt been said yet

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Don't worry guys.
I'll help ya out.

Mario: Often considered nintendo's mascot. This makes him a perfect fit for the nintendo themed character roster.

You can thank me later ;)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The majority of characters were added because they were iconic/famous/popular. Then you get some characters like G&W and R.O.B. who were added as pieces of history. Snake was put in as a favor. I think I summed it all up.

 

[FalKoopa]

Any characters were cut due to time constraints.

I'm not sure if this really warranted a thread.

 

[Shorts]

Well, most were Heroes/Villains/Anti-Villains/Damsals of Nintendos biggest franchises. Some were brought because they are important to Nintendo's history. Some were brought in because they would make good fighters. Most inclusions were also pretty popular.

 

[volbound1700]

Mario, Star Fox, Luigi, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Samus, Kirby, Link - Obvious reasons. Iconic characters (could you imagine the demand if one of these had not been in Smash up until this point).

Mewtwo and Jigglypuff - Popular Pokemon at their time

Falco - Fit Fox's moveset and height. Added as clone late in Melee. Also popular char in series

Diddy Kong - high demand, popular character

Peach, Bowser, Wario - Popular Mario characters

Dr. Mario, Roy, Young Link - Clones added to fit previous chars in game

Marth - Was Roy a clone of Marth or vice versa? Added for FE support in Japan

Ice Climbers - Added to get unique two char duo

Game & Watch - Unique character

Captain Falcon & Ness - Added in Smash 64, popular series at the time and unique abilities

ROB - Important part of Nintendo's spread to USA. Important char in SSE

Pokemon Trainer - Does this need to be explained?

Pit - Unique character and series that Sakurai wanted to bring back

Wolf - Very well known rival of Star Fox and easily fits template of Fox character with tweeks

Ganondorf - Main Zelda villian and added as clone since he apparently fits well with Captain Falcons template and moveset

Zelda/Sheik - Does not need to be explained.

Toon Link - Updated Young Link

Sonic & Snake - already went over in thread

Olimar - Popular, doesn't need to be explained

Lucario - Already explained in thread

Metaknight & Dedede - Two other major popular reocurring characters in Kirby Series

Lucas - easily tweeked Ness-like char from most recent Mother title

Ike - popular char from FE series

 

[BluePikmin11]

I need sources.

 

[Frostwraith]

Only one way to know the answer to the question this thread pertains to:

Ask Sakurai.

 

[κomıc]

Roy was added as a promotional character for an FE game that had yet to be released. Marth is the main rep for the Fire Emblem series (being in the first)- I'm not sure if he's the most popular FE character though. In FE Awakening, he seems to referenced a lot more than any other, so clearly, he's the head of all FE characters.

Ike might stick around considering his popularity with those in the west. Chrom from Awakening may be another character from the FE series thrown in.

 

[final lap]

I was interested in this subject myself. Well, it depends on what counts as a reason. I was simply looking at what each character brings to the table. For instance, Ice Climbers has a unique gimmick of controlling 2 characters at once. Pit is able to fly, and can guide his arrows. So on and so forth.

By analyzing these contributions to the game, we can perhaps deduce which characters should be cut, and which characters should be added.

 

[SmashChu]

I've done some research so I'll throw my hat in.

Sakurai has defined 4 critera all Smash characters must meet.

1. The inclusion must make people want to play (usually, these guys are more popular. Can be other qualities. Should really attract people. See Pokemon Trainer)
2. The character must be unique
3. The character must fit into the style of Smash (character must work around the game, not the other way around. Could also be the style of the character)
4. They must contribute to game balance (I've seen this interpreted as series representative. As in you can't have all the characters from Mario)

If a character meets all of these, they can be in. This is also why character like, say, a Fire Emblem female wont get in. Yeah, they may fit 4 and 2, but not 1. Now, for specifics.
Meta-Knight - This was a character that was really popular coming up to Brawl. You see this a lot
Pit - Sakurai likes classic characters which is why we have Ice Climbers and Game and Watch. He did the same here, and there were fans that wanted to see more of Kid Icarus
Zero Suit Samus - This wasn't a unique idea; it just wasn't a popular one. With Zero Mission, this likely became more realistic so Sakurai did it. Fun Fact: A lot of Sakurai's ideas aren't original.
Wario - Again, really popular character
Ike - Sakurai actually asked Intelligent Systems for a Fire Emblem character and they chose Ike.
Pokemon Trainer - A unique idea. This one actually came up a lot and people thought it was crazy. Guess Sakurai liked it. Given, his was different than what people suggested (people said the Trainer should fight). Also, they are pretty important in their game.
Diddy Kong - Quick story. The original idea was to have Diddy and Dixie tag team. However, they couldn't get it to work. They scraped the idea but they felt Diddy Kong had enough to be his own character. Again, this idea was actually brought up by fans on his DOJO site (when you could send suggestions)
Lucas - He was actually pretty popular in Japan. Plus the game just came out.
King Dedede - Popular character. He was also planned for 64 and likely Melee
Olimar - Popular and Nintendo's last first party game (with a character)
Lucario - While he didn't come up, he was actually a really popular Pokemon. The Pokemon Company made Zoroark to cash in on Lucario's popularity, but Zoroark hasn't worked as well.
ROB - Pit is to Ice Climbers as Mr. Game and Watch is to ROB. He is one of those old Nintendo reference and transcends a character.
Toon Link - Young Link. He was pretty popular in Melee
Wolf - He was actually really popular here, but the Krystal fans were much louder. He was really popular in Japan as is the rest of Star Wolf
Snake - Kojima asked for him and Sakurai decided to do it
Sonic - REALLY popular
Most characters get in because they are popular, but most characters are popular because they are really interesting and unique characters. It goes hand in hand. The reason its hard to predict the roster is Sakurai doesn't have a magic formula. He just tries to get what the game need and what would make it fun. Thus, a lot of it is perception. Unless you are Sakurai, you wont have the same insight or ideas here. You can get kind of close though.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You guys don't put a source dang it.

 

[FalKoopa]

You guys don't put a source dang it.

You don't have time to search for them, do you?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You guys don't put a source dang it.

I'm not the only one who sees the irony in this situation, am I?

 

[SmashChu]

You guys don't put a source dang it.

They are out there, but we've discussed this topic so much that we all kind of know it. Sorry.

 

[BluePikmin11]

There's some people who want an immediate fact with a source.

 

[FalKoopa]

There's some people who want an immediate fact with a source.

But are too lazy to search for it themselves.

 

[final lap]

I've done some research so I'll throw my hat in.

Sakurai has defined 4 critera all Smash characters must meet.

1. The inclusion must make people want to play (usually, these guys are more popular. Can be other qualities. Should really attract people. See Pokemon Trainer)
2. The character must be unique
3. The character must fit into the style of Smash (character must work around the game, not the other way around. Could also be the style of the character)
4. They must contribute to game balance (I've seen this interpreted as series representative. As in you can't have all the characters from Mario)

If a character meets all of these, they can be in.

By game balance what do you mean? Because it sounds like you mean no one franchise should be overrepresented. But that's not what game balance means.

Also when I think about it, there is perhaps an exception to these rules when it comes to clones. Falco and Wolf are obviously not unique, but being clones of Fox, they get a free pass. Not that I mind clones, just pointing it out.

As for Pokemon Trainer, I never really imagined it as a character that would make people want to play. (but I'm sure I'm wrong, as I'm just talking from personal opinion) You don't play as the Trainer, you just play as its Pokemon. Just a really gimmicky, groanworthy character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As for Pokemon Trainer, I never really imagined it as a character that would make people want to play. (but I'm sure I'm wrong, as I'm just talking from personal opinion) You don't play as the Trainer, you just play as its Pokemon. Just a really gimmicky, groanworthy character.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!

That's my main you're insulting! I was ecstatic on the day PT was revealed. I knew from day one he would be my main. PT is gimmicky (part of why I like him, three in one), I will give you that, but groanworthy? Why groanworthy?

Spoiler

I'm blowing this out of proportion for luls, but I'm serious about the groanworthy part. What about him is bad?

 

[final lap]

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!

That's my main you're insulting! I was ecstatic on the day PT was revealed. I knew from day one he would be my main. PT is gimmicky (part of why I like him, three in one), I will give you that, but groanworthy? Why groanworthy?

Spoiler

I'm blowing this out of proportion for luls, but I'm serious about the groanworthy part. What about him is bad?

Problems include the fact he just stands in the background cheering, the fact that Ivysaur is a four-legged i.e. non-humanoid Pokemon, and the fact the 3 Pokemon are at different stages of evolution. I don't hate Pokemon Trainer, but the char just seems all over the place to me. (And when playing in a game with PT in it, it's perhaps distracting how one of the fighters keeps changing, and blends in with the pokemon that result from poke balls)

This is just my opinion. I wasn't trying to speak for others. I am curious to know whether PT is liked, which is why I decided to voice my criticism of him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Problems include the fact he just stands in the background cheering, the fact that Ivysaur is a four-legged i.e. non-humanoid Pokemon, and the fact the 3 Pokemon are at different stages of evolution. I don't hate Pokemon Trainer, but the char just seems all over the place to me. (And when playing in a game with PT in it, it's perhaps distracting how one of the fighters keeps changing, and blends in with the pokemon that result from poke balls)

This is just my opinion. I wasn't trying to speak for others. I am curious to know whether PT is liked, which is why I decided to voice my criticism of him.

PT is well liked. He's a unique character and each of his Pokemon are beloved. He's a fun character. Give him a shot!

I'm not sure how Ivysaur being four-legged is a problem though. Especially when Squirtle and Charizard AREN'T humanoid either. Thy're bipedal, not humanoid. Lucario and Mewtwo are the only ones I would consider humanoid. Even then I consider that a stretch

PT works just fine. The multiple stages were the best way to represent evolution in a pokemon character. I got nothing to say about him being to busy though. That's the first time I've heard that complaint. Ever...

And it's fun to see where PT himself shows up on the stage.

 

[final lap]

PT works just fine. The multiple stages were the best way to represent evolution in a pokemon character. I got nothing to say about him being to busy though. That's the first time I've heard that complaint. Ever...

By any chance.... has anyone here ever complained about Brawl being too busy in general? >_>

 

[FalKoopa]

By any chance.... has anyone here ever complained about Brawl being too busy in general? >_>

What do you mean by being too busy?

 

[final lap]

What do you mean by being too busy?

Too many things going on at once, and too visually distracting even when there aren't too many things going on at once.

That's what I thought Swampasaur meant by busy, which is why I posed the question.

 

[FalKoopa]

Nah, not really. A few stages are visually distracting (Lylat Cruise in particular), but others are fine. PT isn't 'busy' either.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

PT is far from busy. Nothing in Brawl really is.

 

[final lap]

Something might have just occurred to me, in the history of the series only 4 characters were cut. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
And they happen to be:

Dr. Mario
Pichu
Mewtwo
Roy

So based on that, what is the basis for cutting a character?
Dr. Mario - because there is Mario
Pichu - because there's Pikachu
Mewtwo - ?
Roy - I'm guessing either because he was a clone of Marth, or because Ike is a clone of Roy

Is there any guesses made as to which characters would be cut from SSB4? Does it really make sense to cut anyone to begin with?

 

[FalKoopa]

Something might have just occurred to me, in the history of the series only 4 characters were cut. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
And they happen to be:

Dr. Mario
Pichu
Mewtwo
Roy

So based on that, what is the basis for cutting a character?
Dr. Mario - because there is Mario
Pichu - because there's Pikachu
Mewtwo - ?
Roy - I'm guessing either because he was a clone of Marth, or because Ike is a clone of Roy

Is there any guesses made as to which characters would be cut from SSB4? Does it really make sense to cut anyone to begin with?

Dr. Mario, Roy and Mewtwo were planned to be in brawl. They have some unfinished data in the Brawl disc. Also, Ike isn't a clone of Roy! Have you played both games?

Pichu was cut (probably) because it was an obvious joke character.

And no, it doesn't make sense for any character from Brawl to be cut. All characters are unique enough and popular as well.

 

[final lap]

I think I just realized why Mewtwo was cut. Because he would be a 5th Pokemon character. I just noticed that Brawl has a 4 character per franchise limit. Yoshi breaks this rule but seemingly is justified by being counted as his own franchise. This is even more so the case with Wario since the character is strictly based on WarioWare.

If this theory is applied, this means Toad is not coming, at least not unless Peach is cut. (or Bowser) (or Luigi) (or Mario!)

Pichu is an obvious joke character you say, but isn't Jigglypuff also?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I think I just realized why Mewtwo was cut. Because he would be a 5th Pokemon character. I just noticed that Brawl has a 4 character per franchise limit. Yoshi breaks this rule but seemingly is justified by being counted as his own franchise. This is even more so the case with Wario since the character is strictly based on WarioWare.

If this theory is applied, this means Toad is not coming, at least not unless Peach is cut. (or Bowser) (or Luigi) (or Mario!)

Pichu is an obvious joke character you say, but isn't Jigglypuff also?

Pokemon has 6 characters. Pokemon trainer may force you to use all three but that is still 3 pokemon with unique move sets.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think I just realized why Mewtwo was cut. Because he would be a 5th Pokemon character. I just noticed that Brawl has a 4 character per franchise limit. Yoshi breaks this rule but seemingly is justified by being counted as his own franchise. This is even more so the case with Wario since the character is strictly based on WarioWare.

If this theory is applied, this means Toad is not coming, at least not unless Peach is cut. (or Bowser) (or Luigi) (or Mario!)

Pichu is an obvious joke character you say, but isn't Jigglypuff also?

Mewtwo was cut because of time limits. He was planned for Brawl but he was cut most likely because time and resources went in Sonic and the data that came with him.

There is no limit for franchises as Zelda technically has 5 and Pokemon has 6. There is really no limit to how many characters a franchise can have.
Besides 5 characters for Nintendo's BIGGEST franchise isn't bad in the slightest.

 

[final lap]

From a character select screen standpoint Pokemon has only 4.

The Brawl select screen seems to be organized so each column has as many characters of the same franchise as possible.
And sure enough Yoshi is paired with Wario, as if to imply that like Wario, Yoshi is part of its own franchise.

If my theory is applied
- no more Mario characters (no Toad)
- no more Zelda characters (no Ghiramin)
- no more Pokemon characters (unless one of them is replaced)
But more chars in other franchises are ok. (up to 2 more DK characters, up to 1 more Kirby character, etc)

That said, maybe SSB4 will raise the "limit" to 5. Especially if the character select screen adds a 5th row.

 

[Opossum]

I highly doubt they decided the roster around the Character Select Screen...

 

[final lap]

I highly doubt they decided the roster around the Character Select Screen...

No but perhaps the character select was decided around the roster.
The 3 franchises with the most characters, all have exactly 4. And 2 Pokemon (Mewtwo and Pichu) were cut -- coincidence?