Reality 64: A Smash 64 Mod For Brawl [Not Quite The End | Page 26]

[Rage83]

What is it with the Wii and SD card types anyway? Did Nintendo use Windows 95 drivers for the SD card slot or something?

Brawl itself doesn't natively support SD cards bigger than 2 GB because it was made before Nintendo reformatted the Wii to support SD cards that were larger.

 

[Gene]

What is it with the Wii and SD card types anyway? Did Nintendo use Windows 95 drivers for the SD card slot or something?

I would believe it due to Nintendo being backwards as ****.

 

[WindozeNT]

Brawl itself doesn't natively support SD cards bigger than 2 GB because it was made before Nintendo reformatted the Wii to support SD cards that were larger.

So essentially, Brawl says "F**k the operating system, I make access to low-level hardware!". That's bad coding practice: direct hardware access should only be done when absolutely necessary. This kind of stuff plagued DOS and Windows programs in the 80s and 90s before Microsoft started disabling DHA in Windows NT because of all the problems it caused.

 

[RedFly]

Of course Side Specials are removed.

If so, Will certain characters have there Side Specials moved to Standard Specials? Like how Ness has PK Fire to Standard Special and Jigglypuff has Pound to Standard Special in Smash 64.

Mr. Game & Watch gets Judge moved to Standard Special.
King Dedede gets Waddle Dee Toss moved to Standard Special.
Zelda gets Din's Fire moved to Standard Special.

 

[Rage83]

If so, Will certain characters have there Side Specials moved to Standard Specials? Like how Ness has PK Fire to Standard Special and Jigglypuff has Pound to Standard Special in Smash 64.

Mr. Game & Watch gets Judge moved to Standard Special.
King Dedede gets Waddle Dee Toss moved to Standard Special.
Zelda gets Din's Fire moved to Standard Special.

For characters who have specials based off of others and were made post Smash 64, this can be true on a character-dependent basis. For example, Falco could, (in theory) use Falco Phantasm as his neutral special instead of as a side special. I personally disagree with side specials being removed instead of reworked, but the decision is out of my hands.

 

[RedFly]

For characters who have specials based off of others and were made post Smash 64, this can be true on a character-dependent basis. For example, Falco could, (in theory) use Falco Phantasm as his neutral special instead of as a side special. I personally disagree with side specials being removed instead of reworked, but the decision is out of my hands.

I was thinking of that, But certain Side Specials would just be awkward if the input didn't involve running or walking such as Captain Falcon/Ganondorf's Side Special.

But I do agree that certain clones should have there side specials moved to Standard Special in order to separate themselves and make them a semi-clone.

 

[Rage83]

I was thinking of that, But certain Side Specials would just be awkward if the input didn't involve running or walking such as Captain Falcon/Ganondorf's Side Special.

But I do agree that certain clones should have there side specials moved to Standard Special in order to separate themselves and make them a semi-clone.

Speaking of semi-clones, Ganondorf is confirmed to be receiving this treatment(decloning, not necessarily side special being moved). The specifics of the changes, however, are totally up in the air within the team atm. Also, the idea of changing cosmetic animations, like Luigi's aerial jumping animations has been tossed around.

 

[RedFly]

Here's a list of characters that I think should get Side Special and Standard Special switches, I hope this helps.
Italic means uncertain, As it might be unnecessary but could be nice.

Jigglypuff: Pound

Ness: PK Fire

Link: Boomerang

Zelda: Din's Fire

Mr. Game & Watch: Judge

King Dedede: Waddle Tee/Gordo Toss

Ivysaur: Razor Leaf

Lucario: Force Palm

 

[Josiah Virgil]

Here's a list of characters that I think should get Side Special and Standard Special switches, I hope this helps.
Italic means uncertain, As it might be unnecessary but could be nice.

Jigglypuff: Pound

Ness: PK Fire

Link: Boomerang

Zelda: Din's Fire

Mr. Game & Watch: Judge

Marth: Dancing Blade

King Dedede: Waddle Tee/Gordo Toss

Ivysaur: Razor Leaf
Lucario: Force Palm
Snake: Remote Missile

Marth might feel awkward with dancing blade mapped to regular B, unless there weren't other options for it. As for Snake, I think the grenade should stay and the missile should go.

 

[RedFly]

Marth might feel awkward with dancing blade mapped to regular B, unless there weren't other options for it. As for Snake, I think the grenade should stay and the missile should go.

Yeah, I suppose the Grenade is too important to his moveset to be removed. The dancing blade could go either way though.

 

[Josiah Virgil]

Yeah, I suppose the Grenade is too important to his moveset to be removed. The dancing blade could go either way though.

I just feel like the different options could detract from the simplicity that Smash 64 has. It's just a really weird situation. As for your other suggestions, they seem great.

 

[RedFly]

I just feel like the different options could detract from the simplicity that Smash 64 has. It's just a really weird situation. As for your other suggestions, they seem great.

You make a great point, As something as complex as Dancing Blade probably wouldn't have been in Smash 64.

 

[Rage83]

Here's a list of characters that I think should get Side Special and Standard Special switches, I hope this helps.
Italic means uncertain, As it might be unnecessary but could be nice.

Jigglypuff: Pound

Ness: PK Fire

Link: Boomerang

Zelda: Din's Fire

Mr. Game & Watch: Judge

King Dedede: Waddle Tee/Gordo Toss

Ivysaur: Razor Leaf

Lucario: Force Palm

Marth might feel awkward with dancing blade mapped to regular B, unless there weren't other options for it. As for Snake, I think the grenade should stay and the missile should go.

I personally agree with what Josiah said about Marth and Snake. All of (both of) your ideas are at least thinking about, though. On a team note, it helps us a lot more than you would believe to have suggestions from the community. As far as we're concerned, please keep the input coming!

 

[WindozeNT]

If side-Bs are staying, Chef as side-B with Judge being B is going to be weird. Even if Melee attacks are going to be removed, it would still be weird. I think Chef should stay as B.

 

[RedFly]

Speaking of the simplicity of Smash 64 and Standard Specials, How will attacks be changed?

I hope these ideas might make it in:

: Standard Special now operates like in SM64, The attack cannot be held but is rather just a single hit attack that is slow but powerful.
: Mach Tornado can now only travel from Left to Right, And once a direction is chosen it is much more difficult to turn around.
: ROB's laser beam is basically a projectile-based DK Punch, But if the charge is interrupted in any way then the charge resets.
: Palutena's Bow cannot be aimed up and is slower, But is slightly easier to control.
: Homing Attack is no longer automatic, But instead you choose 8 different directions to shoot yourself. (Nearly identical to Fire Fox but with less range and power)
: Chef can now only shoot sausages in 3 different directions in order, From Top, Middle, Down to help plan attacks.
If Judge gets moved to Standard Special, Then special effects such as Freeze will be removed.
: SSB4 Style of only having 3 pikmin in order, But without White and Purple Pikmin.
: Toon Link gets the Hero's Bow to help split him from Link, It works the same as it does now.
: While Ness gets PK Fire, Lucas will stick with PK Freeze to help split him from Ness.
: Hopefully he gets his Waddle Dee Toss moved to Standard Special. Gordos are removed and instead Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos are buffed severely, And the chance of you getting Waddle Dee or Waddle Doo is even at 50/50.
: Instead of Chomp throwing the opponent after chomping on them, The final chomp will be a KO move with high knockback.
: Peanut Popgun cannot be charged, But instead is always a half-charged shot.

Bold means I would really really like to see it come true.

 

[Josiah Virgil]

Speaking of the simplicity of Smash 64 and Standard Specials, How will attacks be changed?

I hope these ideas might make it in:

: Standard Special now operates like in SM64, The attack cannot be held but is rather just a single hit attack that is slow but powerful.
: Mach Tornado can now only travel from Left to Right, And once a direction is chosen it is much more difficult to turn around.
: ROB's laser beam is basically a projectile-based DK Punch, But if the charge is interrupted in any way then the charge resets.
: Palutena's Bow cannot be aimed up and is slower, But is slightly easier to control.
: Homing Attack is no longer automatic, But instead you choose 8 different directions to shoot yourself. (Nearly identical to Fire Fox but with less range and power)
: Chef can now only shoot sausages in 3 different directions in order, From Top, Middle, Down to help plan attacks.
If Judge gets moved to Standard Special, Then special effects such as Freeze will be removed.
: SSB4 Style of only having 3 pikmin in order, But without White and Purple Pikmin.
: Toon Link gets the Hero's Bow to help split him from Link, It works the same as it does now.
: While Ness gets PK Fire, Lucas will stick with PK Freeze to help split him from Ness.
: Hopefully he gets his Waddle Dee Toss moved to Standard Special. Gordos are removed and instead Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos are buffed severely, And the chance of you getting Waddle Dee or Waddle Doo is even at 50/50.
: Instead of Chomp throwing the opponent after chomping on them, The final chomp will be a KO move with high knockback.
: Peanut Popgun cannot be charged, But instead is always a half-charged shot.

Bold means I would really really like to see it come true.

I really like all these ideas. What would Peach have for regular B? Keep in mind 64 didn't have counters.

 

[RedFly]

I really like all these ideas. What would Peach have for regular B? Keep in mind 64 didn't have counters.

I imagine that the Toad would just attack without needing to get hit.

 

[bb010g]

I like most of those, but Sonic's Homing Attack should still home. Also, what about having Lucas use his PM smash charge B?

 

[RedFly]

I like most of those, but Sonic's Homing Attack should still home. Also, what about having Lucas use his PM smash charge B?

It's totally up to them if they want to take from Project M, But I wouldn't prefer it.

 

[Gene]

You make a great point, As something as complex as Dancing Blade probably wouldn't have been in Smash 64.

One of his Dancing Blade's could always be his new jab attack, just press "A" button 4 times.

Btw that Marth model character and select pic are perfect! Is that from the brawlvault?

 

[Rage83]

One of his Dancing Blade's could always be his new jab attack, just press "A" button 4 times.

Btw that Marth model character and select pic are perfect! Is that from the brawlvault?

No, it's a custom model made by Pik(of the Project M Development Team).

 

[arcticfox8]

Maybe you could experiment with only having one Ice Climber, as the 64 would've had a hard time supporting them + the idea of simplifying characters.
You'd need a new announcer call for Popo tho.

 

[WindozeNT]

Maybe you could experiment with only having one Ice Climber, as the 64 would've had a hard time supporting them + the idea of simplifying characters.
You'd need a new announcer call for Popo tho.

Ice Climbers mains don't seem to like that idea.

 

[Rage83]

Maybe you could experiment with only having one Ice Climber, as the 64 would've had a hard time supporting them + the idea of simplifying characters.
You'd need a new announcer call for Popo tho.

No. With characters, we are not trying to restrict ourselves to N64 hardware limitations.

 

[WindozeNT]

What game engine does Brawl use? I know the physics engine is Havok but I don't know what the game engine is. I know that 64 runs on its own from-the-ground-up engine (the "Dragon King" engine), but I don't know about Melee, Brawl, or 4 (does 4 use Unity? I know Unity is the Wii U's default game engine SDK).

 

[RedFly]

I really hope we'll be getting a 64 themed menu background, Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[Josiah Virgil]

What game engine does Brawl use? I know the physics engine is Havok but I don't know what the game engine is. I know that 64 runs on its own from-the-ground-up engine (the "Dragon King" engine), but I don't know about Melee, Brawl, or 4 (does 4 use Unity? I know Unity is the Wii U's default game engine SDK).

Smash 4 was the only game that wasn't built from scratch. Smash 4 just uses Brawl's engine.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

REDACTED FOR NSFW CONTENT

 

[ImThatGuy]

so is this going to be just the brawl cast, or are we gonna see Roy, M2, The Doc, etc. in the future?

 

[Rage83]

so is this going to be just the brawl cast, or are we gonna see Roy, M2, The Doc, etc. in the future?

After the characters present in Brawl are done, clone characters will be considered. If they do get in, I personally want to handle Roy, Pichu, Doctor Mario, and Young Link(with some help from sluigi123). As for Mewtwo, I'd admittedly need to rely on sluigi quite a bit.

 

[RedFly]

After the characters present in Brawl are done, clone characters will be considered. If they do get in, I personally want to handle Roy, Pichu, Doctor Mario, and Young Link(with some help from sluigi123). As for Mewtwo, I'd admittedly need to rely on sluigi quite a bit.

If it has Mewtwo and Roy then that wouldn't give people a very big reason to play it, I think perhaps a new character should be added... A character who was wanted or very popular in the N64 days.

 

[Psi Sig]

If it has Mewtwo and Roy then that wouldn't give people a very big reason to play it, I think perhaps a new character should be added... A character who was wanted or very popular in the N64 days.

Agreed, for example i think some like Bomberman or Marina would be awesome additions

 

[Rage83]

If it has Mewtwo and Roy then that wouldn't give people a very big reason to play it, I think perhaps a new character should be added... A character who was wanted or very popular in the N64 days.

This isn't necessarily an either-or situation. If we find and compile a concept for such a character that we like, can accomplish from a technical standpoint, and balance, then it can be used. In other words, those five characters from Melee would be a mere bonus.

 

[RedFly]

This isn't necessarily an either-or situation. If we find and compile a concept for such a character that we like, can accomplish from a technical standpoint, and balance, then it can be used. In other words, those five characters from Melee would be a mere bonus.

It just feels weird a character from Melee is being brought back when the project is about Smash 64.

That'd be like if a character from Smash 4 was brought into Project M.

 

[TheRealHeroOfWinds]

It just feels weird a character from Melee is being brought back when the project is about Smash 64.

That'd be like if a character from Smash 4 was brought into Project M.

Everything @ Rage83 has said has already been discussed amongst the team, and none of this 'Melee cut vets' has been planned to be in our final product.

I have asked him to not bring this topic up on the thread multiple times, and I will be personally talking with him.

 

[RedFly]

Everything @ Rage83 has said has already been discussed amongst the team, and none of this 'Melee cut vets' has been planned to be in our final product.

I have asked him to not bring this topic up on the thread multiple times, and I will be personally talking with him.

I never thought it was final, I'm just giving my input on it the idea and I don't particularly approve since so many other mods are doing it.

 

[Rage83]

I never thought it was final, I'm just giving my input on it the idea and I don't particularly approve since so many other mods are doing it.

I never mentioned that this was final either. Theoretical topic is theoretical, but Hero doesn't seem to be competent enough to put that together. To further bust my sentiment into his head: My typings on the topic of reality 64 represent my own ideas, and not necesarrily those of the entire team, or even it's more active sects. As for bringing back Melee characters being taken as odd, I feel the need to stress the origins of these characters. All of them with the possible exception of Roy(as his game wasn't made yet, but may have been before the N64 was for all intents and purposes dead) originated at some point before the N64 was gone. Young Link was in the N64's Ocarina of Time, Pichu and Mewtwo were both present in Pokemon Stadium 2(Mewtwo was in the first as well), and Doctor Mario had his original game on the SNES.

 

[Josiah Virgil]

I never mentioned that this was final either. Theoretical topic is theoretical, but Hero doesn't seem to be competent enough to put that together. To further bust my sentiment into his head: My typings on the topic of reality 64 represent my own ideas, and not necesarrily those of the entire team, or even it's more active sects. As for bringing back Melee characters being taken as odd, I feel the need to stress the origins of these characters. All of them with the possible exception of Roy(as his game wasn't made yet, but may have been before the N64 was for all intents and purposes dead) originated at some point before the N64 was gone. Young Link was in the N64's Ocarina of Time, Pichu and Mewtwo were both present in Pokemon Stadium 2(Mewtwo was in the first as well), and Doctor Mario had his original game on the SNES.

I feel that while we are trying to change newcomers to feel like a N64 character, we shouldn't lose sight of their original playstyles and how they feel to veteran players of said character. Roy is a heavy, ground-oriented character, so naturally the best of his ability should be ground oriented, similar to how Yoshi can still be played as a ground oriented character with his double-jump cancel.
On another note, there is nothing wrong with giving a character a fresh, new element to diversify their playstyles. Mewtwo was given a hover in Project M, and while that was a fresh new element, it was warmly welcomed by most Mewtwo players.

 

[Rage83]

I feel that while we are trying to change newcomers to feel like a N64 character, we shouldn't lose sight of their original playstyles and how they feel to veteran players of said character. Roy is a heavy, ground-oriented character, so naturally the best of his ability should be ground oriented, similar to how Yoshi can still be played as a ground oriented character with his double-jump cancel.
On another note, there is nothing wrong with giving a character a fresh, new element to diversify their playstyles. Mewtwo was given a hover in Project M, and while that was a fresh new element, it was warmly welcomed by most Mewtwo players.

I personally thought that it was odd for Mewtwo to not have something like that in Melee tbh. Also, I'm a rather huge fan of both Project M's official rework of Ganondorf's Melee moveset and DarkStar's unofficial rework of Brawl Falco in the Project M environment. I'll confess, my favorite kind of decloning is when a character's basic playstyle is kept, but the moves themselves are edited to be more differentiated from the base character, but keep a similar(albeit not a 1:1 replica of) function to their previous moves.

 

[alex mora]

so when is the .5 version going to be out? i'd love to help you guys test this out