Rate Their Chances Returns! Day 194: "Predicting the Direct"

[Arcanir]

Chances-10% Oh Meowth, you are the character of my childhood, one of the characters I loved from the anime and looked forward to seeing along with Team Rocket, which makes this harder to say. Outside of the anime, he's not been that prominent and the anime doesn't have as much a hold on the fanbase as it did before so he's not nearly at the peak he was back in the day, and there are other characters that have been more popular then him that still can get the spot. It's unfortunate, but I don't think he has that great a chance.

Want-39% I'm not as fond of him as I was before and there are other candidates I'd like to see before him.

 

[Glaciacott]

I understand your opinion, but really, Meowth isn't really THAT bad. Given, the species itself doesn't really bring that much to the table, but the character himself does. I mean, he's one of those characters that, when you're being creative about, he can make something unique, and has plenty of things going on for him. You can either make his moveset based on the games (Using Pay Day, Theif, Aerial Ace, etc.) or you can give him a moveset based on the several kinds of gadgets Team Rocket uses in the anime.

I don't quite get why'd you think he's "bland" and "boring" or even "useless", though. That feels kind of biased, given how Meowth can hardly be classified as such (maybe useless as in incompetent, but that's about it). If they're putting a Meowth in the game, it's obviously the Meowth from Team Rocket, not just a random cat they found in the alley way. The same could easily apply with Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

I'm biased in the sense that I'm thinking of the games, and in the games Meowth has always been pretty useless. I really cannot get myself to see the merit of Smash characters based on tv shows that aren't exactly loyal to the source material.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

Just some words of wisdom from Meowth himself:

 

[Chandeelure]

Just some words of wisdom from Meowth himself:

That's beautiful :,) ,but still he has like 3% chances XD

 

[SchAlternate]

I'm biased in the sense that I'm thinking of the games, and in the games Meowth has always been pretty useless. I really cannot get myself to see the merit of Smash characters based on tv shows that aren't exactly loyal to the source material.

Well, Meowth is one of those few Pokemons that do respect the physics of the games (bar the standing straight and talking, of course). And, really, why else would Pikachu get in if it wasn't for the anime (don't say Pokemon Yellow, because I'll punch you)?

 

[NickerBocker]

Surrender now or prepare to fight!
MEEEEOWTH thats right!

Meowth

Chance: 5%
in SSB64, we got jigglypuff. Sakurai said that he had considered Meowth as a character at some point, and while hes probably deserving of a spot, his opportunity has passed. He was significant, but is now more of a comic relief than anything.

Want: 50%

Duck hunt dog: 8.7%

Nominations:
Rayman x5

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

That's beautiful :,) ,but still he has like 3% chances XD

Haha yea I know xP I still remember him saying this in one of the Pokemon movies, even though it was at least ten years ago when I saw it. Even though i was just a wee little kid, I knew it was deep

 

[Gam3rALO]

Meowth:
Chance: 4%
There are much more common pokemon to get in. and that's IF we will get a new one.
Want: 2%
No, thank you!!!

Prediction for Dunk Hunt Dog: 11.42%

Nominations
Sylveon x5

 

[SchAlternate]

Something that I never got clear, though: when we predict someone, are we predicting their likelihood or want ratings? I've been shooting random numbers for a while now, so I'd like to know.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Meowth Chance: 23% He had the oppurtunity to be in, but instead it was Jigglypuff.
Meowth want: 23% Don't really see the appeal of Meowth anymore.
Duck Hunt Dog Prediction: 43.8%
Nominations:
x5 Tom Nook

 

[Glaciacott]

Well, Meowth is one of those few Pokemons that do respect the physics of the games (bar the standing straight and talking, of course). And, really, why else would Pikachu get in if it wasn't for the anime (don't say Pokemon Yellow, because I'll punch you)?

Pikachu did get in because of the anime, but again, that was the nineties and Smash 64. If Meowth was considered in that context, sure, I'd see some logic in it.
But the landscape is extremely different now. We just have held on to Pikachu due to it having become the face of Pokemon, and Puff remains as well because of tradition and gamefreak keeping her in the spotlight to a degree. Meowth didn't get these benefits in the pokemon games or in Smash ... his reality is different to that of Pikachu and Puff.

 

[Groose]

Something that I never got clear, though: when we predict someone, are we predicting their likelihood or want ratings? I've been shooting random numbers for a while now, so I'd like to know.

You predict their chance ratings. We used to predict both, but then people would make only one prediction, and it was very confusing. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

HISTORY LESSON: Rate Their Chances originally only included chances... but SSBF added want ratings. It not only helps gauge popularity, but it also prevents people from inflating the chance percentage simply because they like a character: they can just inflate the want percentage instead! I used to play the game back in pre-Brawl. Back then, Diddy was our Little Mac, King Dedede was our King K. Rool, Ridley was our Ridley, and Krystal was our Palutena.

Btw, your posts are probably the most entertaining to read on this thread. The way you say character names are quick becoming the new slime puns.

 

[jaytalks]

Meowth
likelihood: 1%
I'm going to have to rerate all third parties because characters like Meowth means that I'm giving them too much credit.
Anyways, I think there is practically no chance that the Pokemon Company will recommend him. He lacks importance in comparison to all the current Pokemon reps to the Pokemon games. The Pokemon is nowhere near as big as it was during it's height, and that still didn't get him. His status hasn't change with generation 5 or 6. And he would be yet another generation 1 rep. Which is something the Pokemon company wouldn't do.
Want: 0%
No newcomer generation 1 reps. No exceptions.

Prediction for Duck Hunt Dog: 9.83%
Nominations:
I was really annoyed at the idea that Daisy was considered a trolling nomination. Daisy could serve the exact same function as Waluigi (sports rep) and should she, she would be in her sports outfit, which is completely different than Peach's outfit. If anyone feels that this is a trolling vote, feel free to PM me and I'll argue for a character I don't even like.
Daisy x5

 

[Deleted member]

Oh wow. Sylveon's day is approaching pretty fast...
I am ready with my post, but I am just going to wait for the day to come.

 

[AfricanSanta]

Meowth:
Chance- 1%- He missed his chance. There too many more important Pokemon.
Want- 0%- Gen one has too many reps already, lets not add to it.

Duck Hunt Dog Prediction: 11%

Nominations:
Dark Samus x3
Mallo x2

 

[Sid-cada]

Meowth

Chance - 4% - Outside of being recognizable due to the Anime, I'm not sure why they would pick Meowth. I mean, Melee and Brawl both passed by with only a pokéball appearance, just like in 64. Actually, scratch that- Meowth was regulated to a trophy in Melee. Now, there's so much completion that is superior to him that he doesn't stand much of a chance.

Want - 50% - Do not like. Do not dislike. Do not care.


Duck Hunt Dog Prediction - 6% - I wonder how many folks think he actually has better than a 10% chance.

Nominations
Anna X3
Ridley X2

 

[SchAlternate]

Btw, your posts are probably the most entertaining to read on this thread. The way you say character names are quick becoming the new slime puns.

Aw, thanks~

It's a shame that I didn't start doing that when I started nominating Lip, though. Think of all the witty mouth related romantic puns I could have come up with!

"All I ask for is to kiss those lips of perfect symmetry"
"It takes a mouthful to explain my feelings for you"
"My love for you reached lands never spoken of before"

And so on and so forth. (Those weren't exactly the best I could come up with, but what gives.)

 

[Yams]

I'm seeing a TON of 1%. I think Meowth is unlikely, though I do support him, but he's really not THAT unlikely. I honestly see Meowth being lower than Owain and SANDBAG, and that's just disappointing. C'mon people. 1%? Really?

 

[Glaciacott]

I'm seeing a TON of 1%. I think Meowth is unlikely, though I do support him, but he's really not THAT unlikely. I honestly see Meowth being lower than Owain and SANDBAG, and that's just disappointing. C'mon people. 1%? Really?

Yes really. 1 chance out of a hundred is a perfectly reasonable score given the reasons stated. It acknowledges there's a chance even regardless of the implied impossibility.

I'm personally more flabbergasted by those who mention 20%-25% chances ... we're implying here that it's more likely to get Meowth than it is to roll a six on a dice. And I'm sorry, but that's absurd.

 

[SmashShadow]

I don't care what other people think are "all-stars." I care about playing as my favorite characters. I would be surprised if a majority of the target demographic for smash would vote to keep their favorite character out of the game because they aren't an "all-star." Smash is a fighting game, and more characters is almost always better.

As for your second point, what's wrong with admitting that two characters (A, the one in smash currently, and B, the proposed alternate costume character) are similar? For one thing, if you admit that character B "isn't unique or even worth trying to make a moveset for," then you must admit the converse, that if character B were in the game first, then character A would not be "unique or even worth trying to make a moveset for." You're trying to assign greater value to character A on the completely arbitrary predicate that she came first.

I would be surprised if a majority of the target demographic for smash would vote to add in their favorite character but just as a costume for another character. There is a reason why clone characters are so frowned upon already. But even they show more promise then these costume characters that you describe. They'll at least have subtle differences that make them entertaining to play as.

Imagine if Ridley were revealed as a playable character in a trailer. You begin to watch the trailer and all he has are Charizard's moves. Can you not imagine the outrage on the internet? Heck, people are still ticked at Megaman not Being in MvC3 even though he's a costume for Zero!

As to your second point, the reason those characters were added instead of *insert costume character* were because they were more important. We are not going to have Daisy in before we have Peach, Dixie before Diddy, Pichu before Pikachu etc...It's just common sense. If there are two similar characters and one gets in before the other, then yes it is reasonable to assign a greater value on those who came first because they always have been more important based on history. And again, this all goes back to the premise of the game which is having Nintendo All Stars in the game.

Also, practically any character can have a unique moveset if time was actually taken for them. Adding them in as a costumes shows that you didn't even consider them as an individual character.

 

[SchAlternate]

Yes really. 1 chance out of a hundred is a perfectly reasonable score given the reasons stated. It acknowledges there's a chance even regardless of the implied impossibility.

I'm personally more flabbergasted by those who mention 20%-25% chances ... we're implying here that it's more likely to get Meowth than it is to roll a six on a dice. And I'm sorry, but that's absurd.

Well, while he's pretty unlikely (seriously, SuperBrawler, 87% in chance?), he's by no means impossible.

But, hey, it's your opinion after all. You have a point of view, so do I, and so do them. I mean, isn't that the point of the game after all?

 

[SmashShadow]

Meowth: 7%
He has some stiff competition with the inevitable return of Mewtwo and recent gen stars. But still, they brought back Pokemon Trainer in a time where nobody was guessing gen 1 characters. Meowth has been consistently popular all these years so It's not impossible.

Want: 5%
He seems more boring than Jigglypuff. That is saying a lot.

5x Toad

Duck Hunt Dog: 7.4%

 

[PK_Wonder]

Meowth gets a 2.5%

Pokemon competition is just too intense to give him a higher score. I personally think he always should have been in before Jiggs, but his sweet spot has come and gone - he hasn't even been shown as major in X and Y, at least Jiggs is getting a new typing. I personally think there are at least two or three Pokemon more likely than him that we haven't rated. (Victini and a few from X and Y that we may or may not know about yet.) This isn't accounting for the many starter/significant Pokemon that could make up a second trainer's "transformations."

predict Duck Hunt Dog 15%

Wonder Red x5

 

[Erimir]

He's practically the most likable character in the anime imo (along his teammates),

Truly, Team Rocket are so much better than Ash. James is the best though.

I understand your opinion, but really, Meowth isn't really THAT bad. Given, the species itself doesn't really bring that much to the table, but the character himself does. I mean, he's one of those characters that, when you're being creative about, he can make something unique, and has plenty of things going on for him. You can either make his moveset based on the games (Using Pay Day, Theif, Aerial Ace, etc.) or you can give him a moveset based on the several kinds of gadgets Team Rocket uses in the anime.

I don't quite get why'd you think he's "bland" and "boring" or even "useless", though. That feels kind of biased, given how Meowth can hardly be classified as such (maybe useless as in incompetent, but that's about it). If they're putting a Meowth in the game, it's obviously the Meowth from Team Rocket, not just a random cat they found in the alley way. The same could easily apply with Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

But... while the anime does have a big effect on the relative popularity of Pokemon, it doesn't seem to have any effect on Smash Bros aside from roster decisions.

That is, Pikachu in Smash is not Ash's Pikachu. Jigglypuff in Smash is not the Jigglypuff from the anime. If she was, she'd at least use a marker in her taunt. She doesn't. She doesn't even make that pouty face. She only does things that Jigglypuff does in the games.

I get the appeal of the cartoon character, and I think Meowth is pretty good there (although Jesse and James are funnier than Meowth imo), but it reaaaaally doesn't seem like Sakurai is about to give Meowth abilities that come from the cartoon rather than the games. So if he gets in, Meowth will likely just be a regular Meowth. But Meowth the generic Pokemon rather than Meowth the character isn't really worthy imo.

Maybe you could say the same for Jigglypuff, but she's now a Smash staple - if Jigglypuff hadn't been in Smash 64 I don't think she'd have any chance of getting in now, to be honest. It's not really fair, but it's done already.

None of this is to say that Meowth couldn't be a fun fighter or that I'd be upset about him being in.

Back then, Diddy was our Little Mac, King Dedede was our King K. Rool, Ridley was our Ridley, and Krystal was our Palutena.

Then who was your Impa? Who was your Owain?

 

[Yams]

Yes really. 1 chance out of a hundred is a perfectly reasonable score given the reasons stated. It acknowledges there's a chance even regardless of the implied impossibility.

I'm personally more flabbergasted by those who mention 20%-25% chances ... we're implying here that it's more likely to get Meowth than it is to roll a six on a dice. And I'm sorry, but that's absurd.

Meowth is by no means impossible. Yes, he is unlikely, but he's not impossible or even worthy of a 1%.

I would still categorize Meowth as a Nintendo All-Star, and one of the very few left to be playable. I'd say he's on the same level of being an All-Star as Ridley, Toad, Dixie Kong, or King K. Rool (though I'm not implying he's nearly as likely as any of them). The reason I think Meowth is one of the best Pokemon choices is because Smash isn't about relevancy. Yes, it is good to have an plug or two in Smash (Ike, Lucario, etc.), but I don't think it should define the whole roster. Characters like Chrom or Shulk have been considered some of the most likely choices as of late, but haven't even been established as Nintendo All-Stars yet. Meowth was established and became an All-Star all the way back when the anime began. Even if he's not as popular as he was back then, he still bears some popularity and is still relevant in the anime.

The game should not be the only thing that influences character selection for the Pokemon series. Yes, it is the biggest part of the franchise, but it isn't everything. You say that Ampharos and Marill make more sense than Meowth just because they have a bit of relevancy in the 6th gen. But does that really matter as much? In a few months, sixth gen will just be one gen in an ocean of them. That's like saying Dunsparce would be a better choice than Meowth if he recieved a Megalution. Meowth is still much more well known and iconic than Ampharos, Marill, and most other Pokemon. Nothing revealed from 6th gen has been related to Meowth. That is true. But there is still plenty of things to be revealed for the sixth gen. We're probably going to see dozens upon dozens of new features and evolutions to old pokemon, so you can't totally count Meowth out yet. GameFreak probably doesn't care about 95% of the pokemon. There is going to be over 700 Pokemon by the time gen 6 comes out, so it's going to be incredibly difficult, boarder line impossible, for GameFreak to show care for every single Pokemon. Among Pokemon reps, I don't see many that outdo Meowth. The only incredibly obvious one is Mewtwo, and then we're left with Blaziken and a bunch of fifth gen pokemon.

A common trend in the Pokemon series in Smash is for the two new reps to be a plug and a classic, iconic character. In Melee, Pichu was there to represent the newest game, and Mewtwo was there for being one of the most popular Pokemon and being very iconic. In Brawl, Lucario was there to represent fourth gen, and Pokemon Trainer was there consisting of the classic starters and representing who you actually play as. In Sm4sh, why not add Mewtwo to represent his relevancy in 6th gen, and Meowth as our iconic character. I also think Meowth has a lot of potential to be unique. Much more than a lot of other Pokemon. I understand your reasons for disliking Meowth, and they do make sense for the most part. I still find him to be unlikely. But I don't think Meowth is worth of a measly 1%.

 

[SchAlternate]

But... while the anime does have a big effect on the relative popularity of Pokemon, it doesn't seem to have any effect on Smash Bros aside from roster decisions.

That is, Pikachu in Smash is not Ash's Pikachu. Jigglypuff in Smash is not the Jigglypuff from the anime. If she was, she'd at least use a marker in her taunt. She doesn't. She doesn't even make that pouty face. She only does things that Jigglypuff does in the games.

I get the appeal of the cartoon character, and I think Meowth is pretty good there (although Jesse and James are funnier than Meowth imo), but it reaaaaally doesn't seem like Sakurai is about to give Meowth abilities that come from the cartoon rather than the games. So if he gets in, Meowth will likely just be a regular Meowth. But Meowth the generic Pokemon rather than Meowth the character isn't really worthy imo.

Oh. Kinda slipped that off my mind. Ha ha. Yeah, it's just the fact that one doesn't see Pikachu as just an ordinary Pikachu, and the same goes for Jiggs. I don't know.

Personally, I'd prefer having the anime Meowth using moves a regular Meowth would use. It'd be kind of a balance between anime and game. It'd also make more sense to me, really.

I can even make you a movepool right now if you want.

 

[Glaciacott]

Meowth is by no means impossible. Yes, he is unlikely, but he's not impossible or even worthy of a 1%.

I would still categorize Meowth as a Nintendo All-Star, and one of the very few left to be playable. I'd say he's on the same level of being an All-Star as Ridley, Toad, Dixie Kong, or King K. Rool (though I'm not implying he's nearly as likely as any of them). The reason I think Meowth is one of the best Pokemon choices is because Smash isn't about relevancy. Yes, it is good to have an plug or two in Smash (Ike, Lucario, etc.), but I don't think it should define the whole roster. Characters like Chrom or Shulk have been considered some of the most likely choices as of late, but haven't even been established as Nintendo All-Stars yet. Meowth was established and became an All-Star all the way back when the anime began. Even if he's not as popular as he was back then, he still bears some popularity and is still relevant in the anime.

The game should not be the only thing that influences character selection for the Pokemon series. Yes, it is the biggest part of the franchise, but it isn't everything. You say that Ampharos and Marill make more sense than Meowth just because they have a bit of relevancy in the 6th gen. But does that really matter as much? In a few months, sixth gen will just be one gen in an ocean of them. That's like saying Dunsparce would be a better choice than Meowth if he recieved a Megalution. Meowth is still much more well known and iconic than Ampharos, Marill, and most other Pokemon. Nothing revealed from 6th gen has been related to Meowth. That is true. But there is still plenty of things to be revealed for the sixth gen. We're probably going to see dozens upon dozens of new features and evolutions to old pokemon, so you can't totally count Meowth out yet. GameFreak probably doesn't care about 95% of the pokemon. There is going to be over 700 Pokemon by the time gen 6 comes out, so it's going to be incredibly difficult, boarder line impossible, for GameFreak to show care for every single Pokemon. Among Pokemon reps, I don't see many that outdo Meowth. The only incredibly obvious one is Mewtwo, and then we're left with Blaziken and a bunch of fifth gen pokemon.

A common trend in the Pokemon series in Smash is for the two new reps to be a plug and a classic, iconic character. In Melee, Pichu was there to represent the newest game, and Mewtwo was there for being one of the most popular Pokemon and being very iconic. In Brawl, Lucario was there to represent fourth gen, and Pokemon Trainer was there consisting of the classic starters and representing who you actually play as. In Sm4sh, why not add Mewtwo to represent his relevancy in 6th gen, and Meowth as our iconic character. I also think Meowth has a lot of potential to be unique. Much more than a lot of other Pokemon. I understand your reasons for disliking Meowth, and they do make sense for the most part. I still find him to be unlikely. But I don't think Meowth is worth of a measly 1%.

I'll follow up the argument due to being really bored:
At this point, it just winds up being a matter of opinion. I stated mine and within that argument 1% is sensible and nowhere near measly. If we wanted to be realistic, we'd be taking into account a 1 over ~300 pokemon, since Meowth is one in seven hundred pokemon, and I round to 300 or so to account for the fact there's unevolved pokemon in there that are less likely than Meowth. So no, 1% given my reasoning is not measly at all.

There's other points in your response I'd happily argue, but this is not the thread for that. I mentioned the above one because one of the problems I notice in this thread, and at times I'm a victim of this as well, is that people just really don't understand how percentages work. Again, based on what I said, 1% is extremely generous for Meowth. To me he's just another pokemon, more important to the franchise than hundreds but less important than hundred others. Of course, to you he's a Nintendo icon and in that sense 1% would seem awfully low, but if you are capable of following my arguments, whether you agree or not, the score should make sense.

 

[Arteen]

I'll give Meowth a generous 3% chance.
He was popular once, but hasn't been relevant since the 64 days. I'd put him in the top ~50 pokemon who have a shot at making it into Smash, but he'd only get in if Sakurai started feeling nostalgic about late 90's pokemon anime episodes.

Want: 0%
I like Meowth in the anime, but that appeal doesn't carry over into the games, or into Smash. He just doesn't interest me at all. As far as Pokemon go, he doesn't bring much to Smash. There are many other pokemon that would make for more interesting fighters.

Duck Hunt Dog: 10%

 

[XenothiumX]

Meowth
Likelihood: 1%

Want: 50%
I thought that Meowth deserved to be in the original super smash bros., but I think the new generation of Pokemon deserves a new rep.

Duck Hunt Dog
Prediction: 2%

Nominations:
Dixie Kong x5

 

[Yams]

I'll follow up the argument due to being really bored:
At this point, it just winds up being a matter of opinion. I stated mine and within that argument 1% is sensible and nowhere near measly. If we wanted to be realistic, we'd be taking into account a 1 over ~300 pokemon, since Meowth is one in seven hundred pokemon, and I round to 300 or so to account for the fact there's unevolved pokemon in there that are less likely than Meowth. So no, 1% given my reasoning is not measly at all.

There's other points in your response I'd happily argue, but this is not the thread for that. I mentioned the above one because one of the problems I notice in this thread, and at times I'm a victim of this as well, is that people just really don't understand how percentages work. Again, based on what I said, 1% is extremely generous for Meowth. To me he's just another pokemon, more important to the franchise than hundreds but less important than hundred others. Of course, to you he's a Nintendo icon and in that sense 1% would seem awfully low, but if you are capable of following my arguments, whether you agree or not, the score should make sense.

Makes sense.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Meowth seems to be one of the more highly polarizing characters.

Have we had any other 'Marmite characters' within this game?

 

[Forde]

Meowth:

Chance: 5% He's just highly unlikely at this point.
Want: 5% So many more pokemon deserve the spot and have more potential than him.

Duck Hunt Dog Prediction: 14%

Nominations
Cloud Strife x5

 

[FalKoopa]

Meowth, that's right!
Likelihood: 4%
I'm sorry, but his time has long gone by. He still continues to appear in the anime, but at this point, I'd compare his role to that of Impa in Zelda games. A part of the plot, but rarely important. And meowth's portrayal in the Smash games is at complete odds to the anime (Team Rocket's Meowth can't use Pay Day, for example.)

Want: 10%
No thanks. There are a ton of other characters I'd rather have. He's not even in my top favourite pokémon.

Duck Hunt Dog prediction: 3%

Ashley (WarioWare) x 5

 

[Xenigma]

Meowth - 0%
Let's be clear: Meowth is possibly one of the most recognizable Nintendo characters not already in Smash, thanks to his prominence in the Pokemon anime since the show began. Were Pokemon not already well represented in Smash, I'd say he has a downright strong chance thanks to his anime roots. The problem is he kinda missed the boat. Jigglypuff took his potential spot in 64, Mewtwo won out in Melee, and Brawl picked another two reps beyond that. Meanwhile, Meowth hasn't exactly seen any surge of popularity that I know of, and if he's lost out this many times before, how can he hope to beat out another newcomer from possibly the most Smash-friendly franchise Nintendo has? It seems Sakurai has yet to see him as a real contender, and knowing how many characters Pokemon already has and where all the fan demand tends to go for new Pokemon Smash reps, I don't see him changing his mind any time soon. As such, I see no chance for an appearance in SSB4, and possibly no chance for any future Smash either. At least he'll always be a strong contender for appearing from a Pokeball, right?
Want - 5% - Just a little bit of nostalgia for the anime here, but the thought of him taking the slot from a far more worthy fighter is highly unappealing.

Duck Hunt Dog - 7.5%
He feels like he should be a Sandbag, but he is a retro, and everyone expects a surprise retro.

Nominations
Black Shadow x5

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I would be surprised if a majority of the target demographic for smash would vote to add in their favorite character but just as a costume for another character. There is a reason why clone characters are so frowned upon already. But even they show more promise then these costume characters that you describe. They'll at least have subtle differences that make them entertaining to play as.

Imagine if Ridley were revealed as a playable character in a trailer. You begin to watch the trailer and all he has are Charizard's moves. Can you not imagine the outrage on the internet? Heck, people are still ticked at Megaman not Being in MvC3 even though he's a costume for Zero!

As to your second point, the reason those characters were added instead of *insert costume character* were because they were more important. We are not going to have Daisy in before we have Peach, Dixie before Diddy, Pichu before Pikachu etc...It's just common sense. If there are two similar characters and one gets in before the other, then yes it is reasonable to assign a greater value on those who came first because they always have been more important based on history. And again, this all goes back to the premise of the game which is having Nintendo All Stars in the game.

Also, practically any character can have a unique moveset if time was actually taken for them. Adding them in as a costumes shows that you didn't even consider them as an individual character.

Having Ridley in as a costume for Charizard would be better than nothing.

Impa is more important than Sheik.

 

[Ephecus]

Meowth

Chance: 1%
Gen 1 is already overrepresented in Smash and I don't think that they will implement Meowth because of his popularity in the anime since Meowth's in the game are a bit different.

Want: 15%
Meowth in the games never were really interesting to me. Even if he had an unique moveset he would feel like a wasted spot.

Duck Hunt Dog Prediction: 4.5 %

Nominations:
5x Daisy

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Having Ridley in as a costume for Charizard would be better than nothing.

No, it would be worse than nothing; nothing means Ridley could by in smash 5, Charidley would be an insult.

You know how at work/school/sports/whatever there's that one guy who refuses to remember your name. He knows everyone elses but he calls you by chuck, or buddy or something because to him you're not worthy of memory space.. you're that guy, he doesn't know anything about and doesn't want to. He doesn't hate you, no, he's taken the time to pick a generic nickname for you, even if it makes no sense, but he honestly doesn't give two craps about you either. To him you're 'matey' a generic guy who kinda looks vaguely like that other guy he knows. That other guy likes CoD and he coulda sworn you talked about video-games once so he assumes you're the same. When the newest Call of Duty comes out he goes on and on about it to you, 'cos you're kinda like that other guy... you don't like CoD, you like Smash Bros, but it's fine, because talking CoD is better than nothing. Isn't that right 'dude'?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Your post made me realize that the analogy was flawed to begin with. Either Ridley's moveset is close enough to Charizard's that no one would mind if he were a costume, or his moveset is so different that he needs his own character, in which case he is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Cheezey Bites]

Your post made me realize that the analogy was flawed to begin with. Either Ridley's moveset is close enough to Charizard's that no one would mind if he were a costume, or his moveset is so different that he needs his own character, in which case he is irrelevant to the discussion.

If Ridley was close enough to Charizard no-one would mind if weren't in the game. I think this extrapolated out to the character's popularity too, either they deserve their own character or they're not deserving of being in smash just yet.

 

[YoshiandToad]

No, it would be worse than nothing; nothing means Ridley could by in smash 5, Charidley would be an insult.

As a Toad fan and supporter, I can confirm that being in Smash in the content of a costume or move, aka the only thing that actually holds him back from being a perfectly viable character, is definitely WORSE than nothing at all.

Similarly if Mii ends up having costumes of those Smash characters that didn't QUITE make the final cut, it's just as huge an insult;
Imagine if Mii gets a Ridley and K. Rool costume. It's just as good as them being in the actual game! Except it's not. Not at all.

In other words, I agree with what you said here 100%. The only possible exceptions I could see would be like...Doctor Mario costume for regular Mario. Because it's still Mario. Frankly I don't think anyone cares if Doc uses fireballs instead of pills ASIDE from Sakurai.

On a side note: 5% wants for Meowth? You guys are the worst people. I'd give even hated characters around 10% if they're relatively iconic. Talk about hardasses.