Rate Their Chance Returns! Day 13 - Bowser Jr.

[Zuby]

Ridley
Likelihood - 75%
- presence in Brawl
- Metroid deserves a genuine second rep
- widely supported even outside of Metroid fans
- flight mechanics introduced in Brawl
- a very different sort of character of which there are few (non bipedal, non humanoid)

Want - 100%
- SSB needs more purple

Isaac prediction - 61%

Nominations:
5x Tetra (solo, NOT paired with "Toon Zelda")

 

[slumpcat]

Oh it's fine. As long as you're competent at discussing SSB4, you should be fine.

Why wouldn't I be?

 

[SmashShadow]

Giga Bowser isn't the normal size for Bowser. Bowser only turns gigantic in some Mario games and for Melee and Brawl. Bowser's normal size is like that of a grizzly bear, which Smash Bros' bowser is more or less true to. So no, your comparison doesn't add up. Bowser is not the same.
Again, Ridley could be included in the next character roster but a strong argument would have to be made as to why he'd serve a better role in that way than as a boss character which he served well as already in Brawl. Sakurai's statement made it known that it is possible, but improbable. That much is for certain.

Why do you keep bringing up Bowser's size. I never once mentioned anything about size.

Now there's the meat of your argument! Although, I think that last part is up to Sakurai's interpretation. All I know is that he's extremely popular, albeit more in the West, and that Sakuari said that he's possible.

 

[M15t3R E]

Why do you keep bringing up Bowser's size. I never once mentioned anything about size.

Now there's the meat of your argument! Although, I think that last part is up to Sakurai's interpretation. All I know is that he's extremely popular, albeit more in the West, and that Sakuari said that he's possible.

No, I disagree with your objection. Bowser becomes more menacing in Giga Bowser form in which he is a bigger terror than ever. That is not Bowser's true form. Smaller Bowser is. For Ridley it's essentially the opposite issue.

 

[SmashShadow]

No, I disagree with your objection. Bowser becomes more menacing in Giga Bowser form in which he is a bigger terror than ever. That is not Bowser's true form. Smaller Bowser is. For Ridley it's essentially the opposite issue.

That kinda contradicts itself though. You say that Bowser is scarier because he's bigger, but wouldn't putting Ridley in smash where he'd obviously be smaller than his Other M or brawl appearance also make him less scary then?

 

[Morbi]

That kinda contradicts itself though. You say that Bowser is scarier because he's bigger, but wouldn't putting Ridley in smash where he'd obviously be smaller than his Other M or brawl appearance also make him less scary then?

I believe he wasn't literally saying that the size of the character correlates to the fear they induce. He was just saying a "bigger" terror as in the terror induced is what is bigger. Not necessarily based on the size of the character. Giga Bowser has a different design. I honestly think he meant threat rather than terror. Like Bowser is more dangerous in his Giga Bowser form. I don't know if that is what he meant. It just seemed like that was what he was getting at.

 

[M15t3R E]

That kinda contradicts itself though. You say that Bowser is scarier because he's bigger, but wouldn't putting Ridley in smash where he'd obviously be smaller than his Other M or brawl appearance also make him less scary then?

I'll break it down for you. Giga Bowser has a larger intimidation factor and carries a bigger threat than Bowser's true form.
By contrast, Ridley, as he should be portrayed, offers a larger intimidation factor and threat than mini-me version of Ridley that would exist if he is to be a playable character.
So the comparison is complete nonsense. It's like comparing condensation to vaporization (to put it scientifically).

 

[Erimir]

Again, Ridley could be included in the next character roster but a strong argument would have to be made as to why he'd serve a better role in that way than as a boss character which he served well as already in Brawl.

I'm pretty sure "because lots of people want him", "Metroid really only has one character" and "we can make Ridley work" are all Sakurai really needs. He doesn't need a story justification. He doesn't need Ridley to be a boss, there are plenty of other choices, including strong choices from Metroid (Kraid, Mother Brain, Metroid Queen, Dark Samus) if Smash 4 will have boss fights akin to the SSE. Oh and, I see no reason why Meta-Ridley or X-Ridley or whatever couldn't be a boss even if Ridley was a playable character. Or Ridley could still be a boss just in his playable character form (with or without making him larger or more powerful than normal). I also think that Beast Ganon could be a boss if he wanted him to be. It's really not a case where there's any particular reason Ridley must be a boss. Not having Ridley as a boss is not some huge loss that Sakurai simply can't have a good single player mode without.

We don't yet know what types of single player modes there will be at all, so we don't even know whether NPC Ridley being a boss is a possibility in the first place. Sakurai probably doesn't want to rehash what he already did with the SSE anyway - if *I* were him, I would be thinking about what other characters can make cool bosses, not planning on reusing all the ones from Brawl.

 

[Starcutter]

Ridley I predict 89%, for reasons already stated by other people

Want 99%
freakin, idunno, there's just something massively appealing to me about playing as a giant purple dragon in smash.

 

[SmashShadow]

I'll break it down for you. Giga Bowser has a larger intimidation factor and carries a bigger threat than Bowser's true form.
By contrast, Ridley, as he should be portrayed, offers a larger intimidation factor and threat than mini-me version of Ridley that would exist if he is to be a playable character.
So the comparison is complete nonsense. It's like comparing condensation to vaporization (to put it scientifically).

So your argument isn't that Ridley is too menacing for smash but rather he should be as menacing as possible in all appearances compassing size and all. Well, I can't really argue against that as it's more of a personal opinion than a fact. Either way you're entitled it though it shouldn't surprise you that others may not see him as a necessarily huge character when he's had 3-4 appearances where he's Smash(Near Smash) sized.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Ridley - 65%

The biggest issue in Ridley's path right now isn't his innate size but rather the amount of particles it would take to develop him as a playable character. Time and time again we have seen favorites pushed to the side because of this issue. The reason Pit didn't make it into melee was the difficulty in programming his wings and in the same game, Sakurai found it best to design 6 easy to program clones than add another unique addition. Therefore in order for Ridley to get in as a playable character he has to be made a priority early on. He is a a very possible addition, but one regulated but Sakurai's priorities.

Now I believe this will serve to be in our favor this time around only because of the hype that has built up in the past few years added by the fact that there really aren't any shoo-ins to push the purple dragon to the side. Still the fact remains that Ridley would be a time intensive project, and it all depends on whether Sakurai goes through and tackles the issue head on or instead decides that his time and resources can be better suited elsewhere. And for those who are quick to note that Ridley was a boss character in Brawl, keep in mind that programming a boss character with only a small set of functions is much easier than programming a playable character with a full moveset.

Want - 100%

 

[Xenigma]

Ridley - 90%
He may not be a lock for the roster, but of any prospective character, Ridley's gotta have the best chance. He's the most iconic Metroid character behind Samus, the franchise is underrepresented in Smash, he's appeared in every Smash game so far increasing in importance each time (background character to intro movie to story boss), and he's heavily requested by fans at the very least in the US. You can argue he's too big or whatever else, and considering his popularity its a bit worrying he has yet to be included, but it feels like SSB4 is his best chance yet.
Want - 40% - I tend to like the slower characters, but Ridley doesn't really excite me personally. Would be neat to see him playable in any case.

Isaac Prediction - 57%
This one's hard. I feel like his chances are good, but I'm obviously biased; among the community, I think ratings will end up all over the map. My guess is he ends up averaging pretty well in the middle, though I think he'll see more positivity than most.

Nominations
5x Toon Link

 

[Pyra]

Ridley: 83%
If there were to be any other Metroid representative, it would be Ridley. Besides that, it seems a certain Sakurai has been trying to pay attention to the desires of people regarding included characters. Considering the seemingly decent-sized backing towards having Ridley in the game, it's likely. HOWEVER, it's not clear that Metroid even needs another representative. If you asked a casual gamer who wasn't as well-versed in Nintendo what characters they think of when you say "Metroid", I have a hard time believing Ridley would be mentioned. That's not to say he doesn't have a good chance, though.

Want: 30%
I've never personally liked the idea of Ridley being in the game. Maybe it has to do with my lack of Metroid playtime, or my lack of care for bulky scaled down (or up or sideways or whatever, you guys and your silly size arguments) dragons.

Prediction - Isaac: 68.25%
I personally haven't played much of his game, but I've played enough to know it rocks and I would love for him to have a spot in the roster. He could be this time around's retro revival.
He's not quite as retro as the others but you get the idea. He could have a great moveset. It's just a shame that his probability (in this game, anyway) might only be slightly under 70%. Just a hunch.

Nomination:
Toon Link (x5) [I want to talk about this guy.]

 

[Chauzu]

But as Golden Sun being an American Game, I don't know how much it will affect the Japanese audience or Masahiro Sakurai's judgjement on this one...

Just didn't want this comment to slide. Golden Sun is a japanese game. Developed by Camelot (japanese), first released in Japan, sold around as much in Japan as in the US.

 

[splat]

Ridley:

Prediction: 60%
I know Ridley is among the most requested characters in the west. So yes, I am aware that I'm on the low side here. I think Sakurai is well aware of Ridley's popularity, but that he really has no idea how to make him work. In the interview Kotaku posted last Friday, Sakurai said that there's some characters he has considered, but couldn't make them work. I can't help but feel this was directed at Ridley. He then mentions that he's unsure of what will happen to them in the future, which does give me the impression that he's again trying to get Ridley to work. This part of the interview is what I'm referring to:

Kotaku: I know that you can't talk too much about the characters that will be in the next game, but for previous Smash Bros. games, have there ever been characters that you wanted to include but couldn't figure out a good mechanic for them, like a way to fit them into the game?

Sakurai: Yeah, there's been a lot of instances like that. For example, there are places where we planned to have a character but then implementing that character just didn't work out. Or we wanted to implement some character but there was too much overlap with other characters from the same title, and it didn't work out. Or there's places when I wanted to implement some character, but the image for how it works in the game just never comes to fruition.

Kotaku: Could you give some examples?

Sakurai: Unfortunately, I can't talk about it, because what will happen with those instances in the future is something that is still up for debate.
http://kotaku.com/an-in-depth-chat-with-the-genius-behind-super-smash-bro-530744390

With that in mind, I can see Ridley winding up as a boss again - something I always saw as Sakurai trying to reach out to us.
I reckon the people that are giving Ridley numbers that are through the roof are setting themselves up for disappointment.

Want: 85%
If Metroid gets a new character, it should be Ridley. Simple as. A big, purple flying dragon would be awesome to control in a Smash environment. The sole inclusion of Ridley would cause massive amounts of hype (not too much from my part, but these boards would explode), and would reel in lots of new players that would love to play as him.

Isaac: 64.5%

Nominations: Batallion Wars Rifle Grunt x5

 

[Zage]

Ridley Prediction: 2%

Ridley's moveset would overlap with Bowser as the "hulking brutish monster" archetype, I really don't see him offering anything anything new that Bowser doesn't already have, buttttttttttt

Want: 90%
He would still be fun to play as and Metroid really needs another rep that isn't Samus.

Issac: 60%

 

[FalKoopa]

Ridley Prediction: 2%

 

[Zage]

 

[EddyBearr]

The strongest argument against Ridley's inclusion is this: what kind of personality would be bring to the Smash roster?

Every single character has a personality, that's unique, fun, interesting, etc. Everyone from Luigi to Pichu to Ganondorf to Donkey Kong has an interesting/unique personality, but what personality does Ridley bring?

He's got no more personality than the Octoroks in Adventure mode in Melee.

Octorok prediction: 99% obviously a shoo in.

Ridley is a perfect boss/assist trophy. He wouldn't feel very much like a character.

Trying to argue for Ridley is like trying to argue for Epona from LoZ. As wanted as he might be, or relevant to the franchise as he might be, he's just not much of a "character."

 

[SmasherMaster]

Ridley: Likeihood 90%

• Most likely second Metroid rep
• Most requested newcomer
• Easily recognizable even by fans outside of the Metroid fanchise.

Want 100%
Who doesn't want to play as a purple space dragon?
Isaac Predictions 75%
Nominations
Eevee
Little Mac
Toad
Tom Nook
Wreck It Ralph

 

[BlueDrago]

Ridley
Likelihood: 90%.
Want: 75%.
Everyone wants the space pirate! I kinda want the space pirate as well, but I run into problems thinking about how he'd work. Is there more to Ridley than the menacing dragon?

Isaac
Prediction: 85%.

Nominations
Eevee x2
Groose
Mike Jones
Takamaru

 

[Shorts]

Ridley - 70% Chance

He's popular, and that's what he really has going for him right now. Sakurai has said a few words on Ridley, but it's been made rather obvious that he can easily take words back at this point. So, it's really just a matter of if he gets in or not.

Want - 50%

I like Firebrand, and I figure they could play similarly.

Isaac - 52%

Nominate: Krystal x3 and Zoroark x2

 

[Opossum]

The strongest argument against Ridley's inclusion is this: what kind of personality would be bring to the Smash roster?

Every single character has a personality, that's unique, fun, interesting, etc. Everyone from Luigi to Pichu to Ganondorf to Donkey Kong has an interesting/unique personality, but what personality does Ridley bring?

He's got no more personality than the Octoroks in Adventure mode in Melee.

Octorok prediction: 99% obviously a shoo in.

Ridley is a perfect boss/assist trophy. He wouldn't feel very much like a character.

Trying to argue for Ridley is like trying to argue for Epona from LoZ. As wanted as he might be, or relevant to the franchise as he might be, he's just not much of a "character."

Suddenly personality matters? And I don't know how his cunning yet brutish attributes don't lead to an interesting flavor. No one in Smash is like that, yet.

 

[M15t3R E]

I'm pretty sure "because lots of people want him", "Metroid really only has one character" and "we can make Ridley work" are all Sakurai really needs. He doesn't need a story justification. He doesn't need Ridley to be a boss, there are plenty of other choices, including strong choices from Metroid (Kraid, Mother Brain, Metroid Queen, Dark Samus) if Smash 4 will have boss fights akin to the SSE. Oh and, I see no reason why Meta-Ridley or X-Ridley or whatever couldn't be a boss even if Ridley was a playable character. Or Ridley could still be a boss just in his playable character form (with or without making him larger or more powerful than normal). I also think that Beast Ganon could be a boss if he wanted him to be. It's really not a case where there's any particular reason Ridley must be a boss. Not having Ridley as a boss is not some huge loss that Sakurai simply can't have a good single player mode without.

We don't yet know what types of single player modes there will be at all, so we don't even know whether NPC Ridley being a boss is a possibility in the first place. Sakurai probably doesn't want to rehash what he already did with the SSE anyway - if *I* were him, I would be thinking about what other characters can make cool bosses, not planning on reusing all the ones from Brawl.

There are also plenty of other options for characters, including Metroid characters. Then there's also the possibility that the developers don't feel Metroid needs to be represented further. It's not exactly as popular a series as it used to be. It's more popular in the west. Yes, Ridley could be playable while Meta-Ridley is a boss or Ganondorf can be playable while Beast Ganon is a boss. We'll just have to see if there will be a unique story mode like SSE from Brawl, and if so, whether or not the developers really care for the story to feel coherent. Who knows. I just wouldn't get my hopes up.

So your argument isn't that Ridley is too menacing for smash but rather he should be as menacing as possible in all appearances compassing size and all. Well, I can't really argue against that as it's more of a personal opinion than a fact. Either way you're entitled it though it shouldn't surprise you that others may not see him as a necessarily huge character when he's had 3-4 appearances where he's Smash(Near Smash) sized.

The conclusions each of us draw are subjective, but you must admit that I bring fair points to the table as well. We'll just have to see.

The strongest argument against Ridley's inclusion is this: what kind of personality would be bring to the Smash roster?

Every single character has a personality, that's unique, fun, interesting, etc. Everyone from Luigi to Pichu to Ganondorf to Donkey Kong has an interesting/unique personality, but what personality does Ridley bring?

He's got no more personality than the Octoroks in Adventure mode in Melee.

Octorok prediction: 99% obviously a shoo in.

Ridley is a perfect boss/assist trophy. He wouldn't feel very much like a character.

Trying to argue for Ridley is like trying to argue for Epona from LoZ. As wanted as he might be, or relevant to the franchise as he might be, he's just not much of a "character."

Thank you for being articulate. I haven't been able to express this myself, but I completely agree.

 

[EddyBearr]

Suddenly personality matters? And I don't know how his cunning yet brutish attributes don't lead to an interesting flavor. No one in Smash is like that, yet.

Everything matters. Nintendo is a more image/feel-based company, as opposed to hardcore mechanics and etc like many hardcore games & companies..Ridley just kinda lacks a personality beyond what Octoroks have, which hurts his inclusion as a character. Definitely would be a great boss or assist trophy, but something just doesn't scream playable about him to me.

Of course, that's my own interpretation.

Also, bowser does a good job of filling the menacing/snarling/biting monster, while at the same time being "the Nintendo bad guy."

 

[Aqua Rock X]

Ridley
Chance: 45% - Sakurai has said that Ridley was difficult to implement and then IIRC he said that he really wanted a new Metroid character for Brawl yet he still chose ZSS instead. However, Ridley has consistently topped polls and Sakurai may have taken notice in time for Smash Wii U/3DS, so it may not be too bleak for him.

Want: 50% - Other than a couple of multiplayer matches in either Prime 1 or 2 (I don't remember which) I've never touched a Metroid game, so I am completely neutral. I have no real desire for the character, but he could be an interesting character if playable.

Isaac: 70% He seems to appear on most rosters but we'll see his true rating later.

Nominations:
3x Lucina
2x Chrom

 

[josh bones]

Ridley
Chance: 85%
Want: 10%

Nominations:
Waddle dee X5

 

[SirPainsalot]

Ridley
Chance: 25%
I think the fact that he appeared as a large boss in Brawl kind've sealed the deal for Ridley, as it showed what Sakurai thought of him as; a boss.
The fans wanting him certainly brings up his percentage, but fact is that Sakurai doesn't really see him as plausible for a character, therefore I don't see him being plausible either.

Want: 50%
I haven't been huge on Metroid, if he's in, hurray, I'll get hyped for sure. But I could live without him.

Isaac
Chance: 55%
Him being an assist trophy last time certainly helps, and his latest game was in 2010 which isn't that long ago. He has a fair shot at being a character, but lack of relevance might hinder him in the long run.
Want: 40%
Not big on Golden Sun either, sounds neat though.

Nomination:
Little Mac x3
Bowser Jr. x2

 

[BKupa666]

Ridley
Chance: 25%
I think the fact that he appeared as a large boss in Brawl kind've sealed the deal for Ridley, as it showed what Sakurai thought of him as; a boss.

This argument always ground my gears, so to speak. By that same token, Sakurai thought of Dedede as a background element, Charizard as a Pokeball Pokemon, and pretty much all of this game's character pool as trophies and stickers.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Ridley
Likelihood: 25%. I feel that I am being generous with that figure, even if it seems extremely low to most people. It's by and large the western audience that is calling for Ridley's debut as a newcomer. Ridley's menacing appearance and devastating attacks will undoubtedly be taken down a few notches with the inclusion of him into the playable roster, should it happen. This would not have to change about Ridley whatsoever if he were to remain a boss as he is (twice) in Brawl. For this reason, and for the sake of consistency with the previous game, the developers are likely to have Ridley retain his "boss" status as that is his true calling. It just seems like improper type casting and a breach of justice to have Ridley play any other role. Not to mention, more work. Even if Ridley is not a playable character, he has been repping Metroid since Melee as a trophy and even more notably in Brawl as a recurring boss (just as he's been a recurring boss in the Metroid series). He needn't become playable in order to rep his franchise. This is a fact which his hype train riders seem to forget.

Want: 50%. I kinda want to see him playable. He'd probably play like a hybrid of Charizard and Metaknight. It could be done. It's just hard to see justice being done to him should he be implemented in this way.

Nominations: Lynn & Krystal.
Lynn is a big part of the glorious Fire Emblem franchise which repeatedly enjoys praise from fans around the globe. Her personality and fighting style is a no-brainer for any fighter game, but she just so happens to be one of Nintendo's golden girls. And speaking of girls, Smash Bros. needs more of them. I know I am beating a dead horse with that statement, but it is nevertheless true.
Krystal: See Lynn. It mostly applies to Krystal. Possibly Wolf could be cut for Krystal, if needs be.

A few things. Before Smash, Mewtwo was depicted as evil and down right lethal. He is seen to be overwhelmingly powerful in his movies as well as in the games like Pokemon Stadium, making him the final boss, Mewtwo VS your entire team.

In Melee Mewtwo is no such threat in ability or appearance. His overwhelming abilities are toned down to the point that many people see him as some sort of a joke. The idea that Ridley can't make it because toning down his bigger abilities or vicious look would make him "look bad" is outrageous and no amount of jargon or "scientific" speaking is going to mask the idiocy of the idea.

I mean really, by your logic the Pokemon Company should be furious that Jigglypuff and Pikachu were so much better characters than Mewtwo.

You also bring up consistency within the series, sighting Ridley being a boss as if its been some established trope since 64. If anything to keep consistent Ridley should have been flying around the back ground in the last 2 games. With each game Ridley's presence grows and its obvious that Sakurai views him important in some sense. It's 5+ years later with more Ridley support than ever before due to the weeding out of Nintendo characters and you speak as of Ridley is just unspeakably impossible to add.

You've said several times now Sakurai's team would have to do more work. Who doesn't require more work? Especially with a new move set? Sakurai's team developed Ogre, a big, nasty, bat winged monster in their Tekken games. These guys are more capable than any Smash team before and Sakurai is known to literally self destruct during development time, when aren't they doing more work?

You've been arguing Ridley so long you've found yourself reaching so far for excuses. I mean you always bring up Sakurai's famous Ridley quote, but why only the 1st of 2 sentences? Are you hoping the less informed just take your word for it. There are 2 big(very opposite) sides to that coin and you just choose to ignore one of them.

At this point its as if you are arguing because you just don't like the idea of Ridley, rather than any true technical limitation.

Chances 50%
My reasoning is purely based on the Nintendo Power quote which basically seemed like a 50/50 chance to me.

Want 100%

Nominations: Dixie Kong X 5

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The strongest argument against Ridley's inclusion is this: what kind of personality would be bring to the Smash roster?

Every single character has a personality, that's unique, fun, interesting, etc. Everyone from Luigi to Pichu to Ganondorf to Donkey Kong has an interesting/unique personality, but what personality does Ridley bring?

He's got no more personality than the Octoroks in Adventure mode in Melee.

Octorok prediction: 99% obviously a shoo in.

Ridley is a perfect boss/assist trophy. He wouldn't feel very much like a character.

Trying to argue for Ridley is like trying to argue for Epona from LoZ. As wanted as he might be, or relevant to the franchise as he might be, he's just not much of a "character."

Ridley would include a vicious and feral, animalistc personality. How is that hard to see? It's a unique personality that we haven't had in smash yet.

Look above.

You don't play Metroid games, do you? Ridley is cunning, planning and backstabbing who is consumed by his desire for revenge and hatred for Samus. Who has a personality like that?

And Charizard was a perfect Pokeball Pokemon. Look how that turned out.

How is Ridley not a character?

Definition of "character."
char·ac·ter

/ˈkariktər/

Noun

1. The mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.
2. The distinctive nature of something.

Ridley fits all all the above.

Ridley Prediction: 2%

Ridley's moveset would overlap with Bowser as the "hulking brutish monster" archetype, I really don't see him offering anything anything new that Bowser doesn't already have, buttttttttttt

Really dude? Really? He would been a much better argument. Not Bowser.


Besides, I guess we don't need Bowser, because we already have DK to fit the "heavy hitter" archetype or we should get rid of most of the swordsmen because we already have one. See how dumb the archtype argument is?

Besides, Ridley could easily be unique. Think about it.

 

[M15t3R E]

Charizard had a lot of personality in the anime. Perhaps you guys didn't watch the show. I'll respond to the rest of the smart*** comments here later.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Charizard had a lot of personality in the anime. Perhaps you guys didn't watch the show. I'll respond to the rest of the smart*** comments here later.

RIdley has personality too.

Don't you play Metroid games?

Besides who said Charizard didn't have personality?

 

[EddyBearr]

Ridley would include a vicious and feral, animalistc personality. How is that hard to see? It's a unique personality that we haven't had in smash yet.

Look above.

You don't play Metroid games, do you? Ridley is cunning, planning and backstabbing who is consumed by his desire for revenge and hatred for Samus. Who has a personality like that?

And Charizard was a perfect Pokeball Pokemon. Look how that turned out.

How is Ridley not a character?

Definition of "character."
char·ac·ter

/ˈkariktər/

Noun

1. The mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.
2. The distinctive nature of something.

Ridley fits all all the above.


Really dude? Really? He would been a much better argument. Not Bowser.


Besides, I guess we don't need Bowser, because we already have DK to fit the "heavy hitter" archetype or we should get rid of most of the swordsmen because we already have one. See how dumb the archtype argument is?

Besides, Ridley could easily be unique. Think about it.

I considered Charizard but opted against it because he's really just "part of Pokemon Trainer" as opposed to his own unique piece, as Pokemon Trainer is the guy who uses "beasts" to fight for him.

And yes, that's what a character is, but when I read "individual" it implies being unique. Ridley may be unique in regards to other smashers, but I said he has as much personality as an Octorok. If you put Ridley next to another snarling beastly winged dragon, there's not much metaphysically that would separate the two, unlike if you put Pikachu next to another yellow electric rat, Pikachu being more than "an electric yellow rat" just becomes obvious. There's just something unique missing about him to make him more than "A snarling winged beast." Bowser would be a snarling turtle but he has that bit of personality (especially in later games) that makes him more than a snarling turtle. Pikachu has this unique personality that makes him more than "a pikachu/electric rodent."

Certainly, Ridley could have personality added to him, but that's just more work that doesn't really represent Ridley as a metroid character. Pikachu's personality is like that of Pikachu in Pokemon. Bowsers personality is a lot like Bowser in Mario, and though Bowser is quite a snarling beast in Smash, Bowser, unlike Ridley, has a distinct, well-established personality before being in Smash.

Hope that's understandable. But yeah, this is all opinion.

As for Ridley having personality in the games.. Not necessarily. He's expanded upon in comics, but in the games he's just revived by others to play the role of "a monster." A monster might be a personality, but a personality of "a monster" on "a monster" isn't exactly individualistic.

 

[kikaru]

Ridley - 70%
From what I can tell he will either play out as a boss or as a character, though he's not guaranteed to be locked into the boss position as we have seen the likes of Charizard evolve from being a Pokeball item to a playable character.

Want - 60%
I enjoyed fighting against him as a boss but playing as him would be awesome as well. Unfortunately I have other characters I would want to play as much more than Ridley.

Isaac: 50%

Nominations: Shulk x 5

 

[M15t3R E]

A few things. Before Smash, Mewtwo was depicted as evil and down right lethal. He is seen to be overwhelmingly powerful in his movies as well as in the games like Pokemon Stadium, making him the final boss, Mewtwo VS your entire team.

In Melee Mewtwo is no such threat in ability or appearance. His overwhelming abilities are toned down to the point that many people see him as some sort of a joke. The idea that Ridley can't make it because toning down his bigger abilities or vicious look would make him "look bad" is outrageous and no amount of jargon or "scientific" speaking is going to mask the idiocy of the idea.

I mean really, by your logic the Pokemon Company should be furious that Jigglypuff and Pikachu were so much better characters than Mewtwo.

You also bring up consistency within the series, sighting Ridley being a boss as if its been some established trope since 64. If anything to keep consistent Ridley should have been flying around the back ground in the last 2 games. With each game Ridley's presence grows and its obvious that Sakurai views him important in some sense. It's 5+ years later with more Ridley support than ever before due to the weeding out of Nintendo characters and you speak as of Ridley is just unspeakably impossible to add.

You've said several times now Sakurai's team would have to do more work. Who doesn't require more work? Especially with a new move set? Sakurai's team developed Ogre, a big, nasty, bat winged monster in their Tekken games. These guys are more capable than any Smash team before and Sakurai is known to literally self destruct during development time, when aren't they doing more work?

You've been arguing Ridley so long you've found yourself reaching so far for excuses. I mean you always bring up Sakurai's famous Ridley quote, but why only the 1st of 2 sentences? Are you hoping the less informed just take your word for it. There are 2 big(very opposite) sides to that coin and you just choose to ignore one of them.

At this point its as if you are arguing because you just don't like the idea of Ridley, rather than any true technical limitation.

Chances 50%
My reasoning is purely based on the Nintendo Power quote which basically seemed like a 50/50 chance to me.

Want 100%

Nominations: Dixie Kong X 5

Pokemon are so versatile. This is shown when Mewtwo is easily obtainable in the earlier Pokemon handheld games. He's already been toned down by Nintendo. He can be defeated even by non-legendaries. His attacks are easily incorporable into the gameplay, unlike Ridley's. Mewtwo would have been adequate as a boss character in Melee, but apparently his inclusion as a playable character seemed more viable than Ridley's to the developers at the time. Notice how all the bosses in SSE from Brawl are huge? This is a big factor as to why size is important here. It's an established trend in Smash Bros. and many other video games. Why shouldn't Ridley be a boss? He himself and his attacks are gargantuan in size unlike Mewtwo, just like the rest of the bosses. If Ridley should become playable, there is just as much reason to include Porky's mechanical spider boss thing as a newcomer as well. It's a matter of which role they serve better. Your ilk are merely thriving on hope without seeing it through the eyes of the developers. It's more probable that they'll once again see Ridley serving a better role as a boss. Don't forget that it's only the west that is clamoring for Ridley.
You should re-read Sakurai's statements. It is quite clear that he was mocking the idea of including Ridley into the playable roster. His hint at Ridley being "possible" was merely an act of kindness to those who have hope. Let's face it- that's all it was. I like Ridley more as a boss and I feel he should stay that way. I also feel the developers will feel the same way, but of course only time will tell.

 

[Zage]

You don't play Metroid games, do you? Ridley is cunning, planning and backstabbing who is consumed by his desire for revenge and hatred for Samus. Who has a personality like that
And Charizard was a perfect Pokeball Pokemon. Look how that turned out.

At this point I would like to ask if you've even played Smash bros. and seen the characters in it

Besides, I guess we don't need Bowser, because we already have DK to fit the "heavy hitter" archetype or we should get rid of most of the swordsmen because we already have one. See how dumb the archtype argument is?

Those are two totally different things, using a strawman argument isn't really helping Ridley's case.

Besides, Ridley could easily be unique. Think about it.

Saying that someone could be unique doesn't make them unique. You didn't provide any examples on how he could be unique or what he could bring to the Smash Bros roster that characters don't all ready have.

 

[BKupa666]

Ridley

Likelihood - 90%
I don't have to list out the many reasons why Ridley is a borderline lock to appear in this Smash title...everyone here knows why, and those that don't have either been living under a rock or in denial. Ridley's exclusion from Brawl can be justified to some extent by the fact that Sakurai seemingly looked to Melee's poll while choosing characters, where he was unranked, as well as that a large enough pool of fan favorites remained that putting in his team's 'best efforts' on Ridley wasn't absolutely mandatory. The most popular and longly-awaited newcomer (in America) and one that Sakurai has deemed possible to a whole magazine readership of fans, Ridley is a virtual guarantee. At the very least, other than the 'best efforts' quote, there's not a single non-subjective counterpoint against him to serve as a cause for doubt.

Quoting for truth.

 

[M15t3R E]

Quoting for truth.

I've made enough objective counterpoints against him to serve as a cause for doubt already. And it is getting tiring.

 

[BKupa666]

The fact that you made your closing statement with two instances of 'I feel...' in relation to the developers' feelings, in addition to forming assumptions as to Sakurai's quote and what's objectively sensible to developers suggests otherwise.

At the very least, you're not debating Ridley's bloody personality, though.