Randomized AI Enemies

[Solharath]

This is pure speculation, but I wanted to voice something that I'd very much like to see in Brawl, in which Melee rather lacked. Can everyone pause and think of Level 9 Ganondorf? Good, now think of that lame trick you can use to kill him - Stand near the edge, wait for him to get close, stick there awhile, and when he uses his Up+B, air dodge, and he'll fall do his death. Every freaking time.

What I want to see in Brawl is a randomized AI for your enemies. When you choose a computer to fight, The game will randomly pick a fighting style of that character to use in that fight - whether it be conservative, berserker, or something along the lines of Samus or Yoshi, which I can ony label as 'smart'. This would never(Normally) Give the same battle twice in a row, as you can no longer fully predict the enemies movements anymore. In Melee, Fox will always shoot from afar, And follow up with grabbing you, throwing you down, and shining you. After while, it all is rather avoidable to the point of boredom.

Now, this is no way means getting rid of the level 1-9 computer system, but rather the system is the intensity of each fighting style chosen for the match. Heck, if Sakurai and his team could(And this one gets out there to the point of wishful thinking) make it so there would be different fighting styles per level, all the better. In fact, I'd like to see the single-minded destruction of the Cruel Melee difficulty be able to be applied to your opponents in normal smash.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

If only level nine's were at the cruel melee level.
Then playing VS. Mode by yourself might actually be worth it.

Anyways, I agree that different fighting styles would be awesome, but then after a while wouldn't you be able to predict the fighting style right away, and the know what moves the AI is going to use?

 

[Leobenmc]

No matter how advanced the programming gets, AI can never replace and successfully represent the play of a human opponent. I mean, this Random AI couldn't HURT - it'd definitely enhance the game...but I'd rather Sakurai and his team focus on Multiplayer modes (Online, Vs. Mode) and other features (Stickers, Songs, movesets) than trying to create a Dynamic AI.
We already have online...that's your Random AI...

 

[THEmSHAKE]

I like it. Unless there is going to levels higher than 9, this may be the only way to improve on the AI. The only problem I see is if the styles are so distinct and they dont change through out the match, then you'll be able to identify the style within the first few seconds. That would put us back where we started. Of course this is all based on melee play.

 

[_Phloat_]

If only level nine's were at the cruel melee level.
Then playing VS. Mode by yourself might actually be worth it.

Anyways, I agree that different fighting styles would be awesome, but then after a while wouldn't you be able to predict the fighting style right away, and the know what moves the AI is going to use?

Meh, the cruel melee-ers are just that good because they travel in packs and have a huge handicap.

 

[Solharath]

I thought of that as a downside, but decided not to include it in my first post for reasons that it might not be brought up. first three posts and it's regarded to twice. Failed to predict that one.

While, yes, the new Play anyone mode is very much a nice ability, You have to consider the face people might not have the internet connection for it, or have no Wireless LAN. This limits people to that wonderful function. Read: Me.

Moving on to the original point, I doubt Sakurai would make them to distinct if they were added, to the point where they might actually mix together in most areas, but where you might exploit one, in suddenly shows up your not fighting the technique originally thought and get sex kicked in the face. This function is directed towards those who do not have the luxury to Smash online, which is a large demographic, I'd suspect.

 

[Solharath]

Moving on(And totally not bumping, no sir), The AI code would make for interesting Multi-player matches as well. Instead of two independent Foxes who actually do the exact same bloody thing, You could fight one who his more aggressive and in your face, which the other one racks on the damage with his laser. You could actually have challenge in facing your AI opponents. Also, I'd despertly want to see some life-stealing Computer players. When you focus on one character, you kill them of, end of story, and move unto beating the hell out of the lesser threat. A glorious add on, but obviously, you may want to throw in the option of turning the life-steal off for AI or even human players, as it can be really aggravating when you have two lives and full percentage, when your partner 'accidentally' stole your life as you were getting KO'd.

Epic fail.

 

[Micahc]

Or they might just put in some decent effort to the base AI so they don't have to make 5 different predictable styles to the same character.

 

[Solharath]

This is Nintendo, so there is a distinct possibility in that. But Behavioral AI seems a bit cooler in some aspects, because it can still get too predictable despite it's adaptability. If Sakurai does well with the Randomized AI(if he does it), he can make them similar to where you don't know which one your fighting until he edgeguards one way or another.

 

[raphtmarqui]

The should make level 10 computers or something.

 

[Arc2012]

I like this idea. Though the predictability is still there, you have to admit that It would take much more skill, focus and adaption on the part of the player to figure it out. All I have to add to it is that it would be cool if the random AI changed, mid match, depending on how well it was doing. So if one fighting style doesn't seem to be working it'll change and hit you with new style out of no where.

 

[Darkurai]

They added such a mode.
It's called "Wi-Fi".

 

[HZ514]

Darkurai...wow.

Better AI would definitely be good, so that playing against computers doesn't actually make you worse any more. Still, they couldn't be programmed to do things such as the Brawl equivalent of SHFFLing, and people will probably find advanced tactics like it to render the computers obsolete.

 

[Darkurai]

Darkurai...wow.

?
</character limit>

 

[Jimtopia]

Kind of like battle ready AI, where they "learn from there mistakes." I would love to see that in Brawl, it would add a whole new depth to level 9 computers.

 

[pirkid]

Aggressive
Cautious
Avoidant
Berserk
Imitate...

 

[Endless Nightmares]

There actually were multiple AI fighting styles programmed in Melee, but some were never (or rarely) implemented. They can be accessed in the debug menu. Seeing two "defensive" or "cooperative" computers team in debug mode is amazing. They actually have teamwork!

Hope it gets put to more use in Brawl.

 

[Frigid_Aztec]

No matter how advanced the programming gets, AI can never replace and successfully represent the play of a human opponent. I mean, this Random AI couldn't HURT - it'd definitely enhance the game...but I'd rather Sakurai and his team focus on Multiplayer modes (Online, Vs. Mode) and other features (Stickers, Songs, movesets) than trying to create a Dynamic AI.
We already have online...that's your Random AI...

Yeah, I agree fully with this guy. Online allows you to play against other people, and as we all know, human competition is FAR better then CPU.

I obviously wouldn't mind this idea that you have, but the time they spend on it could be used on something else.

 

[Hungry Gamer]

They added such a mode.
It's called "Wi-Fi".

Ah! But they also have something called, "No internet" and "No Wireless Devices" and my favorite, "No Money".

 

[Darkurai]

Ah! But they also have something called, "No internet" and "No Wireless Devices" and my favorite, "No Money".

If your budget is so limited that you'll NEVER be able to go out and buy some cords to hook your Wii up to a wired connection, then your budget is too limited to be buying video games.

 

[HZ514]

Darkurai, you have issues...

56k, I had no idea they programmed stuff like that into Melee. Why was it in the debug menu but not in the game? Lol.

 

[Darkurai]

Darkurai, you have issues...

56k, I had no idea they programmed stuff like that into Melee. Why was it in the debug menu but not in the game? Lol.

It was in the game. They just only used it in Event Matches and Adventure Mode.

 

[Icy_Eagle]

There actually were multiple AI fighting styles programmed in Melee, but some were never (or rarely) implemented. They can be accessed in the debug menu. Seeing two "defensive" or "cooperative" computers team in debug mode is amazing. They actually have teamwork!

Hope it gets put to more use in Brawl.

Could you tell me more about it, did the fighting style change much?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

The only two styles I really remember were "defensive" and "cooperative".

Defensive - Computer tries to stay very far away from you. If you get close, they will become aggressive and attack you until you are no longer close to them. If teamed with another defensive, they stay close to each other and continue to play defensively. I can't remember if they run or not, I think they do.

Cooperative - Computer is very aggressive and is constantly rushing at you. They actually run! (If you notice, normal Versus mode computers never run.) If teamed with another cooperative, it's fun to watch and play against. They stand as close to each other as possible, usually back-to-back. They become defensive, and if you attack the duo they get aggressive and attack. They do an Ice Climbers kind of thing where they always try to reunite with each other. Kind of like they're both Nana lol.

 

[Sprigginz_Caldo]

Yeah, it would be interesting. It would also help to change things up a LITTLE bit. But I'm not sure how different it would be in the end. I would just play online, anyways.

 

[Xoda]

Introducing multiple AI strategies would definitely be an improvement, especially since all of us have figured out the computer's playing style after awhile; something like:

Computers love to go after pokeballs and recovery items
Suiciding Yoshi, Kirby, Gannondorf, Captain Falcon, Fox, and the multiple Marios are likely to activate when near an edge

If Sakurai and his team can implement code into the AI that allow them to make full use of the items provided and ways to prevent the occurrences of suiciding, then I can finally get more practice out of battling the computer fighters instead of side-step dodging all their attacks.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I never knew that 56k.

They need to have that in Brawl, it would just be awesome!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

If only level nine's were at the cruel melee level.
Then playing VS. Mode by yourself might actually be worth it.

Anyways, I agree that different fighting styles would be awesome, but then after a while wouldn't you be able to predict the fighting style right away, and the know what moves the AI is going to use?

i just needed to read this, that's all.

what he said.

 

[Icy_Eagle]

@ 56k
That's interesting. It would be cool if they could implement it somehow in brawl

edit: uck, pluvia beat me to it

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

When facing level 9's, you're guaranteed to see the opponent try to grab you. Of course, certain characters do more grab attempts than others.

 

[Solharath]

I'd like this to be known that the Randomized AI is not only for the Multiplayer battles, but the Single Player storyline as well. So even though this was originally slated to point towards those who are not fortunate to have Wi-fi, This means funner battles in your Single-player experiences.