Jinkwai
Smash Apprentice
Sometimes, the lack of use in a move is a strength. It causes the enemy to not consider it as an option and it is naturally strengthened by diminishing returns. This thread will help us utilize this strength and add it to the great strength that Ike already has.
Like all other moveset discussions, this is a community walkthrough where anyone has the right to contribute. The only difference between other moveset discussions and this one is I may not want to limit each move to one week. However, some of Ike's move are very cut and dry, so it may not even be necessary.
As time progresses, I will pretty up this post with summaries, pictures and et cetera for all to learn and enjoy. For now, let's start discussing.
While I am open to suggestions, I think the first move we should review is
Related Videos:
Ike's Super Armor Demonstration
Previous Thoughts on Eruption:
"--Falling from the air, anticipating your opponent to intercept you with an aerial.
--At the ledge, either aiming before they sweetspot the ledge since eruption has a pretty enormous hitbox to it, or timing the super armor for your opponents ledge attack.
--Tech/Roll chasing. Though less commonly used, as there are a few better options.
--Punishing spot dodges/air dodges or just people coming from above, since the hitbox, again, is so big." - Kirk
"This move is very situational, but I think it has it's uses. Really nasty for catching someone who mistimes a air dodge(really easy to do since this move is slow), grabs a ledge for too long, or to just beat out a correctly anticipated attack with it's super armor. It's kind of one of those "it is what it is" kind of moves. Very situational, somewhat effective in the right...well..situation. I also like it for punishing King D3's up B recovery if he's landing on the stage." - Versatile
"This move isn't terribly useful on the ground, but I like using it when I jump up from the ledge, or if my opponent is falling and I know he will airdodge, ill double jump and charge eruption and time it to hit as the airdodge finishes, I usually get a lot of lower percent kills too since we are both somewhat high off the ground.
Last edited by"- Hostility
"Eruption I feel; is a very good move that should be used only on key, crucial times. Ideally, I really only use this move for edgeguarding (Against people like... Fox, another Ike, Link) things of that nature. I also use it when my damage is high and I'm falling out the air and I don't want my opponent to get near me (I don't plan to hit, just a bluff) cause of the Super armor frames. Also, I do use it when I'm competing with an opponent because of the SAF frames because of the simple point that I always win." - Rok the Reaper
Previous Thoughts on D-tilt:
"I think the best use for down tilt is to gimp someone who is double jumping to catch the ledge or trying to double jump on stage without using their up B recovery. Since a lot of people aren't good at sweet spotting the ledge with their double jump, you can usually get the spike. I've gotten back throw down tilt gimps with ike on reasonably good players before, although this obviously isn't something that will work often, but it is an option. The only other use for down tilt that i've found is just using it on dedede or other characters who don't have an up B that auto sweetspots. Other than that, I think down tilt is a fairly useless move for how slow and weak the move is." - Hostility
"I have only found 2 uses for this move. #1 - Ike's over B recovery in Ike dittos it OWNS. #2 - Wolf's over B recovery when he's stalling on the edge for the kicks before he grabs it; owns him too. Also, you can jab combo and then use this to switch it up. Since it has lag, it normally hits because by the time they put up their shield and take it down cause they realize the third hit doesn't connect, it hits them." - Rok the Reaper
Previous Thoughts on Ike's Throws:
"I find it hard to get grabs, besides shield grabbing because the range is just too small. Pummel is decent, nothing too special. Now for the actual throws:
Upthrow: My least favorite. It's slow, it doesn't send them very high, and it has the most post lag of all his throws, making it very useless to follow up on, if your opponent isn't stupid. I NEVER use this one.
DownThrow: Better than upthrow. Much less lag after so you are able to follow up with other attacks. Can combo into aether or another aerial at lower percents...but usually opponents aren't stupid and DI properly, so it doesn't work all the time. It is also Ike's best knockback throw...can kill effectively at 200% maybe slightly less. Hopefully it shouldn't come to this...if you have trouble killing someone at that high of a percent...there is something wrong there.
Fthrow/Bthrow: My most used throws. They are both quick, almost no lag after the throw, and sets you up with options to punish your opponent.
--If they don't do anything --> Grab them again, repeat.
--If they spot dodge --> Can get them with any attack really. If you're expecting it, you can time a smash or another grab on them.
--If they roll backwards --> Upsmash can cover both behind and infront of you, if you don't know if they'll spotdodge or roll backwards.
--If they jump --> I like to jump up with them and Bair. It's quick enough to get the job done. Or even upsmash to scare them some more.
--If they attack you --> Usually the best option is to SH Fair or Nair. With the space they cover it's usually safe.
Basically, it's just a prediction game. It is Ike's closest thing to a tech chasing game...I know it's not that at all, but it's the closest thing he's got. Just read/guess your opponent and punish them for w/e they choose to do.
Other things to do with Fthrow/Bthrow:
--Near ledges: Throw them off to set up for the edgeguard. One thing I like to do is just fall off the ledge immediately and Fair. It surprises them since it comes out so quick and can kill at the right percent (or gimp if they used their second jump right away, but that depends on who you're fighting). You will have just enough to get back to the stage with your double jump and aether. Just be sure you don't miss, you could get edgehogged.
--Against a wall: Fthrow them to death. Time it right they can't get out. If you're facing the wrong way, Bthrow will set it up with no problems, you can regrab them easily. I usually finish with an uptilt kill, but feel free to do w/e.
Sorry if I'm biased, but Fthrow has the best potential for Ike imo."
"All of Ike's throws are decent in my opinion.
First, his grab range is pure crap, so try to slide shield throw as much as you can(though this won't happen much). Shield grabbing I find to be fairly pointless most of the time because of Jab or down smash for a quick punish when something is shielded that recovers semi quick, so I realy only throw to break down defense.
Forward throw is decent. If the opponent does not sidestep or roll you can grab them again into another forward throw or whichever throw you like. Doing this opens up more options since if they anticipate this they may jump, roll behind you, roll away from you or sidestep. If you anticipate jump you can dash into a SH uair,fair,nair or RAR bair. If you anticipate them rolling behind you can short hop nair to catch them. If you anticipate them rolling away a dash attack will catch them. Nair should catch a spot dodger as they exit out of their sidestep animation unless they sidestep again, which jabs should beat.
I rarely back throw. Obviously it's the best option if your back is facing close to the ledge, setting up edge guard. Other than that the other 3 are always better options I feel.
Down throw I tend to save up in case I need it(to avoid the move staling). Reason being if for some reasons my opponent lives to be 160% or higher it will kill a good amount of the cast then. Having it at full power makes sure that grabbing my opponent can potentially kill them, so I avoid it. At low percentages, down throw into aether is solid if the opponent can't DI for ****e.
Up throw is probably my most used. I use this to pop up instead of down throw since it really can't kill at all. Follow ups after this is just a matter of reading the opponent in the air. Don't always jump and follow them. Ground-stalk them. Follow their movement. Up tilt and up smash work very well. Up tilt because it has such high priority, and up smash to beat out a mistimed airdodge. Uair works similarly in that its active frames allow it to beat out air dodge even when the opponent air dodges as you are doing it. If the opponent goes for a laggy aerial and misses, positioning yourself next to them so they land into a forward smash or fair can work at times, but that's pure situational. One option Ike's forget about is simply letting your opponent be thrown up, watch as they air doge upon landing, grab them, and toss their *** back up in the air. This alone opens up a lot of options for you since they now have something else to worry about upon landing besides just attacks. Eruption works too because of the timing being deceptive to air dodgers, but you have to ground stalk them well and be right underneath them, or jump(don't recommend this) Fair works well if they DI in front of where Ike is facing. Short hopped fair is dope with this since if they anticipate you doing that you can short hop in their face empty as they land and grab them. Nair works because it's nair: covers both sides well, has a big hit box and good priority. Bair works out of up throw because of it's sick speed. Jumping up, doing nothing as they air dodge franticly, and Bairing right after they exit air dodge animation is sexy. Lastly, jab works well if they air dodge right before landing. If you see this coming, go near them and hold A.
Also keep in mind that if you prefer down throw over up throw that all I said about up throw still works with it." - Versatile
Previous Thoughts on Nair:
"What a nice move this is. It covers a very nice range around Ike and lasts for a good amount of time. It has potential to catch people who spot dodge or roll as the attack can stay out for just long enough.
One of the key points is the landing lag...which is very small. How small you ask? Well at the right percent, usually on the low side, you can follow up with a number of attacks with relatively good success. Commonly used follow ups include jabs, jab to grab, uptilt, Bair if you hit with the back part of Nair, or dare I say, ANOTHER Nair. Just be weary your opponent might be able to DI and/or airdodge out of these...but that's pretty much true with almost any other 'combo.'
A word of warning: I'm sure all of you know of this. The dreaded Nair suicide. Usually happens by mistake when trying to press A to get a quick jab on your opponent but you fall of the ledge and before you know it, you're doing the Nair into the abyss. You CANNOT recover from this. The attack last so long in the air you will not be able to jump and Aether back to the stage. Be cautious at the ledge as to not let this happen. But I'm sure it has happened to all of us on numerous occasions, so no worries...right? :o
Overall, a great attack in Ike's arsenal. Learn to use it." - Nair
"Nair: a very good air move for ike... with good spacing this move is deadly... it stays for quite a while so it can hit air dodgers after d-throw or f-throw like what u guys said.. i like using this move if i know that my opponent will air dodge so i could connect with neutral a combo or a,a then grab.. basically one of the moves that ike needs to pressure opponents. be careful tho... if u get chain grabbed by DeDeDe: if u got thrown off the ledge do not hit n-air or it will kill u bc it stays for a long time so u'll probably be dead to either jump or aether to grab the ledge..
In conclusion... with careful spacing this move is essential for pressuring and has alot of options after used.." - Senjiroth
"Oh, geez.
I love Nair. Quick execution, huge range, great priority, can be canceled, and a decent approach if linked to another attack. Excellent as a "combo" starter, and pretty good during a defensive game.
That being said, Nair is pretty worthless unless canceled due to the heavy lag. Ike also easily gg's when you get knocked off the edge. Fast fall + insane lag + bad recovery = dead Ike." - Taylor
"Nair can kill at high percents...I've accidently KO'd people with it a few times. If somehow you find yourself in a position where your opponent miraculously has high damage (NAIR KO's Mario at 165 with NO DI.. on FINAL DESTINATION AT GROUND LEVEL just to give you an idea...)..then see if you can get a Nair while they're in mid-air. It will surely KO them if they DI retardedly which they will since most people never expect an Ike to do NAIR in midair without a ground to cancel it on..
The trajectory it sends them is weird...it sends them up and slightly diagonal...so they would have to DI to the side.. LOLOL . How random is that?! Seeing how most people spam Nair though it probably won't kill so easily due to move degeneration.. You're looking at around 165 and up... probably lower depending on how high you hit them
again...MIRACULOUSLY..if you're opponent is really good and is good at dodging all of Ike's other attacks.. then surely a full jump'd NAIR is worth a try...hard to airdodge and nobody will see it coming. Sure you can try upair but Nair has the 270 degrees which allows more versatility. For example you can jump with your back towards them. Point is Nair is extremely hard to dodge when the full animation is allowed to be completed so most likely they WILL get hit." - Silven
"my personal favorite thing about nair is how if they dodge they still get hit if you have it placed right. It's excellent to throw out when people expect a fair. Love landing a backwards DI Nair hitting the person at their back shield leaving them with no options while i land and start punishing that shield to oblivion. " - Ussi
"Nair, the combo starter. Good for opening combos and is normally followed up with the AAA combo. I say try other things such as the D-tilt and probably the F-Smash if you're close to the edge; you'll either eat up all of their shield or they'll roll inside of you and catch the blade anyway while you're bringing it forward. Most people spam this; I wouldn't, it gets predictable. I say use it for chasers and jump in's only. But it can be easily shield grabbed so try to learn it's range." - Rok the Reaper
"Well, I like to RAR neutral air, and hit with the back part of it. If your opponent is expecting the b-air and side dodges or blocks early, you nail them. You then get a free b-air at lower damages. Sometimes, you can even get an upward angled f-tilt after the b-air.
As for getting back from the edge, I like to drop down, Aether, then drop, second jump immediately, and air dodge. The air dodge cancels on the ground, and you can do a bunch of stuff after words. Like, roll, grab, shield drop jab. Fun stuff." - DMSTUDIOS
"All I have to say that hasn't been covered already is to be careful with the spacing. Pretty much everything said about nair is correct, but don't fall so much in love with it that you forget to space it proper when short hopped. If you land directly in their face a good player will throw you, and for falco,pikachu or D3 that can be very ugly" - Versatile
Previous Thoughts on D-Smash:
"I believe down smash is good move when used for pure punishing. I basically use it to punish attacks or any unsafe move in which there is SLIGHTLY enough time to do something besides Jab and punish them. It is slightly faster than up tilt and faster than forward tilt as well. It does not have it's hower, but it can KO a lot of characters at around 120%. Fast enough to interupt offensive pressure(IE: when a move IS safe, but decide to continue to attack instead of block) and catchers rollers(though I never really use it for that.)" - Versatile
"DSmash is great for punishing rolls, as people have mentioned. It's also nice to do it out of a jab combo when your opponent is at the edge; jab -> jab -> DSmash can catch people who are trying to SDI the third hit and aren't shielding, or it can punish rollers with the back hit. By the way, the back hit is more powerful than the front it. It's also a nice killer if you're having trouble getting that kill when your opponent is playing "don't get hit;" it's probably the fastest ground move he has, save his dreaded jab." - Metroid1117
"Down-smash is one of ike's best out of shield counters aside from the obvious jab, and kills at good percents against lightweights and floaties." - Technomaster
Previous Thoughts on Dash Attack:
"Dash attack is useful. Good for catching people off guard obviously. It's best to do it sometimes so that you go THROUGH them so shield grabbing is a little harder. Just having it as a threat is nice for setting up grabs. It's pretty much common sense when to use it and when not to. Be smart about it, and definitely don't spam. Beats out some weaker projectiles." - Versatile
"Dash attack is purely used as an unexpected approach. I like to vary approaches from dash attack.. SH Nair.. spaced Full hopped Fair.. RAR Bair.. and running shield grab. It is great if they are getting back down to the ground and you know you can't reach them with any aerial approach before they have time to shield. Decent knock back when hit with the middle. I like it.. but like Versatile said... don't spam.. use it smart and sparingly" - Fire_Wulf
"Dash attack is awkward, but it is useful for punishing people who like to roll/tech away from you because Ike gets a huge forward boost from using it; QD is . Unfortunately, he doesn't get the momentum that would make boost smashing (canceling dash attack with USmash) useful. It's also nice to use when your opponent is going for the edge from above, thinking that Ike won't be able to reach them; at that distance, a QD would hit them and help them because they can DI upwards and have the option of landing on the stage. It is, however, horribly laggy; I wouldn't advise using this as an approach because it's easily shielded/avoided and punished...Dash attack can actually clash with Lucas' PK Fire (in the sense that there's no fire-splash)" - Metroid1117
"I find dash attack to be a very good approach method to clear out campers. Take Din's Fire for ex. So Zelda's spamming sideB. I run while perfect shielding, then when I'm in the range I do a dash attack quickly so that the max range of the attack hits Zelda while she is doing the initial frames of the sideB. This works b/c the opponent won't really expect the range to be that long, and also b/c the lag of the dash attack where he sort of pauses can throw off where they are aiming with their projectile. And then suddenly you accelerate forward doing your dash attack." - 3XSWORDS
"I personally use the dash attack to tech chase, as it's Ike's only viable way to do so. The range on it is insane, as Ike does some crazy extra step on the attack execution. However things like lag and predictability keep the move from being overused." - TREBOR-NELLA
Previous Thoughts on Counter:
"I find counter to be extremely hard to pull off consistently. It's practically only useful on extremely aggro opponents, as the sound Coutner makes is so obvious and doesn't actually activate when the cound clanks (most annoying thing EVER(). That allows them to either hit you with an extremely fast attack, grab, or know you're vulnerable enough to hit with something beefier like a charged smash. >.> I just don't like the move, really. xD" - TREBOR NELLA
"Counter needs to be used in an intelligent manner, period. Really focusing on your opponent's movement, patterns and aggressiveness. People spam this TOO much at times. Sometime it is simply better to block, spot dodge, or air dodge. You FEEL when its a good time to use it in your gut, and thats when you do.
Counter is extremely helpful vs Meta Knight. Sometimes air dodging vs him simply isn't a good idea. He absolutely KILLS inaccuracy, and even when you're on point with your air dodge/sidestep he still tears you up. Sometimes the risk needs to be taken and you have to go for counter. Shoot, sometimes if you DON'T you will be put into a almost guaranteed off the stage situation.
Besides Meta, it works well vs slower characters like Bowser, DK, Ike, etc.
and obviously counter works well vs anyone who is predictable, so yeah." - VERSATILE
"First and foremost, Counter should ALWAYS be used in the air. If you're on the ground, there are much better options - jab, shield, grab, roll, charge upsmash for lulmindgames, whatever.
Counter being a combo breaker isn't too great, but I sometimes find myself unable to airdodge or retaliate against characters like Marth or Fox simply because of speed. The startup time is pretty bad, but if you pull it off at the right time, Counter can be very rewarding. Being able to switch from being pummeled to a position where Ike can go on the offensive (which is frightening, by the way) is always great. One thing I find myself doing a lot is neglecting to DI properly and look for an airdodge. Airdodges are better. Mixing in a counter will throw your opponent off, though.
For edgeguarding, I have no handier tool than Counter. If your opponent is smart, then he/she will come back BELOW the edge line. Which is to be expected, as fairs, spikes, and aethers are pretty easy to avoid after a mistimed airdodge. Since Counter lasts so long, it can work against even characters with hard-to-predict upb executions, like Lucas.
Mindgames...you should all about this back from our days in Melee, spamming Roy's counter. It's pretty much been covered up above, thoug" - TAYLOR
"Ike's Counter works in Ike dittos vs Aether ^_^ if you don't feel like precisely using Fair then just go all up in their business and time your counter hehe ^_~" - SILVEN
Previous Thoughts on Up-Air
"This is my favorite move in the game by far. Love it. This baby has RIDICULOUS priority, power and decent speed. This move is very tricky to air dodge and must be timed proper. Grat for setting up bair in that if you jump up on your opponent from underneath they are expecting this, causing them to airdodge. If you stay close after they air dodge and your back is near them, bair has a VERY high chance of connecting.
Use the fear of being hit with this move to set up a whole lot of stuff! Listen to Fire_Wulf's ledge uair strats too " - VERSATILE
"It seems to me that on the vertical game, ike's u-air has possibly the most priority, if not, one of the top 3 vertical attacks.
It out prioritizes Link's D-air.... its pretty sha-weet
and to top it off, you have to time your air-dodge perfectly to go right through it." - NovaLombardia
"Favorite part about Uair... the fact that it last long. If you space it correctly... they will air dodge the first part and then get hit with the second swing. I try to get it in after a Utilt if they don't DI correctly cuz it is a huge punisher.
One neat thing i like to do is Uair when on the ledge. If you pull back and then jump and Uair... the blade will just get above the edge.. hitting anyone who is standing too close.. plus when it is done you can Aether and it is the perfect distance so you don't get hit by the opponent while recovering and you can still grab the edge. It helps to keep people back while you get back on the stage." - FIRE_WULF
Previous Thoughts on Jab:
VERSATILE ON JAB
"Ok, I may have been overexaggerating earlier about Iike being unplayable without throws(though I still feel he'd be awful), but without Jab he truly would be a joke. Nobody who uses Ike has to be told this. Sadly, though, a lot of Ike's go about using Jab incorrectly.
Firstly, if the first 2 hits of jab are blocked PLEASE do not do the third. Why? Well, there's this little thing call sidestep, and it's extremely easy to step the last hit and leave Ike wide open. Doing the jab series again after it is blocked or sidestepped can trick people sometimes, but it's best not to depend on that.
HOLD Jab instead of tapping Jab. This makes the jab combo come out at maximum speed all the time without having to worry about tapping and make it slower in between each hit(making it easier to interrupt). Holding also makes letting go upon seeing it blocked or hit much more reliable.
Holding back also works so well because of Brawl's jabbing engine in general. If a character is floating slightly off the ground, Jab will continue to reset to the first hit until the engine believes the 3rd hit can connect. Because of this you can have a lot of 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2,3 series with Jab. Hold...don't tap. Can't stress that enough.
Jab is your ultimate punisher. Block anything fast enough that none of Ike's slower attacks can hit? Jab. These include sword dance by parth, Snake's forward tilt, Snake's jab combo, missed throw attempts, Samus' dair, whatever.
Jab has great priority and interrupts a lot of things. Upon fairing, nairiing, etc and having it blocked, sometimes jabbing is a good option against overall aggressive opponents. I can't even count the amount of times opponents have just ran into it.
Jabbing right outside of hitting range keeps defenses honest. From this you have many options? They keep blocking? Dash in and throw, dash in short hop back nair, etc. If you feel they are going to go in for an attack, short hop back fair. Use your head pretty much.
As everyone knows, after a whiffed quick draw, Jab is a great follow up. Be wise about this and try to read the opponent and their spacing well to maximize this use. QDing into Jab can allow you to mix up QD into throw if the opponent tries to just block.
Jabbing is anti sidestep for the most part. Someone is going to sidestep you? Holding jab in their face. More times tha not Jab is going to eat them up if they try to do anything. I like to keep jabbing even if they continue to spam side step. Short hop nair out of jab spam to beat sidestep is helpful too. It is semi flow, and can catch sidestep.
Jab on block is tricky. Like I said, if Jab is blocked it's best to stop after the 2nd hit(first hit if you ANTICIPATE jab being blocked). Single jab being blocked gives you some good options. Short hop nair BEHIND the opponent or away. Short hop away fair, grab, etc.
Jab is excellent for beating air dodge from right above the ground(like right before it can be cancelled into a shield). When ground stalking, look at when the opponent air dodges. Sometimes walking near them and holding jab so they fall into your jab combo right out of the air dodge is effective. They will be floating, too, so if you hold jab there's a high chance you wil lget the extended series. Doing this can cause the opponent to try to attack on the way down instead or air dodge. If you anticipate this, block, and punish with Jab anyway ^_^.
Jab on ground hit really opens up Ike's meta game. Single, or double Jab gives you lots of sexy options. Jab(or jab,jab) into throw is a staple. If opponent try to sidestep after eating too many of those, instead of grabbing after the jabs, walk up after them and hold it so that you can beat their sidestep. If they try to jump away or towards you with an attack to avoid it, short hop fair towards or away from them. It's all a matter of anticipation and reading the opponent.
Jab into nair is really sexy especially for the sidestep happy. Jab,jab, they go for sidestep? You're already in the air nairing(away from them preferably to increase the chance of being unpunished if blocked).
Jab jab on hit can give you some other sexy set ups that can really mess someone up who is too anxious. Jab,jab, forward tilt and Jab,jab,forward smash both can annihilate a mistimed sidestep or air dodge, or simply someone who's mentalitiy is, foolishly, that "I've been hit by the first 2 so I'm going to eat the third. I'm not even going to try to avoid the 3rd"...fail.
Jab canceling can be effective for those who don't go out of their away to avoid Jab once caught in it as well. Do this by jabbing once, then tapping down to cancel the animation, and jabbing again. If they don't attempt to intterupt the jab combo, you can extend your combo fairly long. Jab cancel, jab cancel,jab cancel, hold jab. Stuff like that.
Holding jab when edge guarding can be effective depending on who you're facing and what character they are using. Hopping back onto the ledge with an aerial can be ugly, but jab will beat many moves used for this. Holding jab to provoke a ledge hop, rising attack, etc can be effective. As SOON as you SEE or ANTICIPATE the opponent doing anything, let go of Jab and quickly short hop fair, forward smash, up tilt, up smash, or forward tilt. Whatever you use is dependent on what the opponent is going to do, so just be wise. Implementing fake/intentional jab attempts can cause Ike's already formidable edge guard game to become scary.
Jab, jab jab baby!"
TREBOR NELLA ON JAB
"U-tilt is a great move to Jab-Cancel into"
RPK ON JAB
"Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that Ike's jab is the fastest move in his arsenal. It deals a good amount of damage if all 3 connect, in addition it has a good amount of priority. Im able to cancel out projectiles with it and am also able to over take most moves because of it. It isnt really a move that shouldnt be used as an offensive move because of its inability to kill. I think it should be used more as a get the hell off of me kind of move because of its speed and priority. In addition, because of its high priority, you can stop someone dead in their tracks for those who like to rush. You are also able to cancel the first jab and then after grab them."
Previous thoughts on Back-Air:
3XSWORDS ON BAIR
'B-air is best combo'd into with n-air around mid%'s. Particularly a backwards n-air (I think Silven mentioned this earlier). Out of shield it is amazing. I use it for killing and intimidation. Multiple b-airs in front of the opponent will scare the **** out of them. Its an ok edgeguard if they are not recovering from directly below the edge. I like this move the best b/c of the quickness and aiming isn't too hard, just have to get used to it.'
FIREWULF ON BAIR
"I actually use to spam the Bair and degraded it till it didn't do anything anymore. Then i figured out how to space the Fair and the Bair almost disappeared. Like previously stated by others.. Bair is great after a Nair that hits with the back. When you don't use it... the Bair is a surprise that the opponent forgot about while they were watching for everything else. I love to use it when they are at high damage for a huge quick knock back move that will most likely kill depending on the percentage.
I will also find myself using it on heavier characters multiple times while they are trying to recover high to avoid my spikes.
One use of the Bair that is difficult to pull off.... but oh so fulfilling.... is to fast fall the Bair and land it on tiny characters. If they are medium damage and you can get the hit off... they fly so far and are immediately forced to work on recovering giving you the opportunity to edge gaurd. The problem with this is if you don't do it high enough the hitbox won't come out and you won't hit them. The second down side is if you do it too high you will swing right over their little heads and be easy game for combos. Like i said... risk with high reward. Not necessarily high risk as you will only die from a missed bair on rare occasions.. but you will get severely punished if you do miss."
EMPY ON BAIR
"I have 1 use of bair that I really love. The most of all. Powershield > bair. Seriously people, it might sound stupid, but it really works out if your going for it. Sometimes I just stand there asking for a certain hit, purely to attempt powershielding it. Sometimes I just happen to powershield and without even thinking my hands go *wham bang boem bair* (shut up I'm 22). I don't know why I love it so much but everytime I land it it makes me want to play Brawl some more."
VERSATILE ON BAIR
"
This move is Ike's fastest besides Jab. It is not a move you will(or even should) use too much. I believe it is at it's most use when used as a fast, punishing, KO move. Ike's Jab, fair, nair and up tilt are just too good of tools to require much bair uses in my personal opinion. As I'm sure it has been stated, bair out of a short hop is sexy. It's speed can allow you to trick people into air dodging early to avoid a slower aerial like uair or fair only to eat a bair to the face.
So I don't sound like a broken record I won't elaborate on much more of the goodness that is Bair unless when going to post Bair and Jab quotes on page 1 I notice a lack of good bair info from you guys(I doubt it). However, a personaly favorite set up of mine is "front bairing". Essentially doing a purposel whiffed bair while facing forward to provoke a shield job which can give you a free jab combo a lot of the time."
KODACHROME ON BAIR
"What I'm talking about is simply turning quickly and using your bair. Once you get good enough at it, you can use it just as fast as if you had your back to them the entire time.
There's a few ways to to it-dash back and jump at the same time for a retreating bair (i don't like this one so much,) or simply gently tilt the control stick in the opposite direction you're facing so you turn and then shorthop bair. Do it quickly, and the turn animation will never even appear. It's a standing reverse aerial rush. Do it even MORE quickly, and you can move aerially toward your opponent or away, afterward.
The only reason I keep posting about it is because it's so useful when they're out of jab range and you want a faster move than your tilts, and it really punishes dash attackers...but I've never seen a single person use it or even mention it. I was kinda hoping I had contributed something useful. x("
KIRK ON BAIR
"I use it mainly for people coming back high from the ledge...attempting to mindgame them into an unsuspecting Bair. I also like to autocancel them...it can catch people off guard sometimes if lets say you follow up with a jab or tilt right after. Sometimes I just fall off the ledge, jump back up and Bair if they tend to chase after me."
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***Related Videos:
Ike's Complete Moveset Close-up
Like all other moveset discussions, this is a community walkthrough where anyone has the right to contribute. The only difference between other moveset discussions and this one is I may not want to limit each move to one week. However, some of Ike's move are very cut and dry, so it may not even be necessary.
As time progresses, I will pretty up this post with summaries, pictures and et cetera for all to learn and enjoy. For now, let's start discussing.
While I am open to suggestions, I think the first move we should review is
Related Videos:
Ike's Super Armor Demonstration
Previous Thoughts on Eruption:
"--Falling from the air, anticipating your opponent to intercept you with an aerial.
--At the ledge, either aiming before they sweetspot the ledge since eruption has a pretty enormous hitbox to it, or timing the super armor for your opponents ledge attack.
--Tech/Roll chasing. Though less commonly used, as there are a few better options.
--Punishing spot dodges/air dodges or just people coming from above, since the hitbox, again, is so big." - Kirk
"This move is very situational, but I think it has it's uses. Really nasty for catching someone who mistimes a air dodge(really easy to do since this move is slow), grabs a ledge for too long, or to just beat out a correctly anticipated attack with it's super armor. It's kind of one of those "it is what it is" kind of moves. Very situational, somewhat effective in the right...well..situation. I also like it for punishing King D3's up B recovery if he's landing on the stage." - Versatile
"This move isn't terribly useful on the ground, but I like using it when I jump up from the ledge, or if my opponent is falling and I know he will airdodge, ill double jump and charge eruption and time it to hit as the airdodge finishes, I usually get a lot of lower percent kills too since we are both somewhat high off the ground.
Last edited by"- Hostility
"Eruption I feel; is a very good move that should be used only on key, crucial times. Ideally, I really only use this move for edgeguarding (Against people like... Fox, another Ike, Link) things of that nature. I also use it when my damage is high and I'm falling out the air and I don't want my opponent to get near me (I don't plan to hit, just a bluff) cause of the Super armor frames. Also, I do use it when I'm competing with an opponent because of the SAF frames because of the simple point that I always win." - Rok the Reaper
Down Tilt
Previous Thoughts on D-tilt:
"I think the best use for down tilt is to gimp someone who is double jumping to catch the ledge or trying to double jump on stage without using their up B recovery. Since a lot of people aren't good at sweet spotting the ledge with their double jump, you can usually get the spike. I've gotten back throw down tilt gimps with ike on reasonably good players before, although this obviously isn't something that will work often, but it is an option. The only other use for down tilt that i've found is just using it on dedede or other characters who don't have an up B that auto sweetspots. Other than that, I think down tilt is a fairly useless move for how slow and weak the move is." - Hostility
"I have only found 2 uses for this move. #1 - Ike's over B recovery in Ike dittos it OWNS. #2 - Wolf's over B recovery when he's stalling on the edge for the kicks before he grabs it; owns him too. Also, you can jab combo and then use this to switch it up. Since it has lag, it normally hits because by the time they put up their shield and take it down cause they realize the third hit doesn't connect, it hits them." - Rok the Reaper
Throws
Previous Thoughts on Ike's Throws:
"I find it hard to get grabs, besides shield grabbing because the range is just too small. Pummel is decent, nothing too special. Now for the actual throws:
Upthrow: My least favorite. It's slow, it doesn't send them very high, and it has the most post lag of all his throws, making it very useless to follow up on, if your opponent isn't stupid. I NEVER use this one.
DownThrow: Better than upthrow. Much less lag after so you are able to follow up with other attacks. Can combo into aether or another aerial at lower percents...but usually opponents aren't stupid and DI properly, so it doesn't work all the time. It is also Ike's best knockback throw...can kill effectively at 200% maybe slightly less. Hopefully it shouldn't come to this...if you have trouble killing someone at that high of a percent...there is something wrong there.
Fthrow/Bthrow: My most used throws. They are both quick, almost no lag after the throw, and sets you up with options to punish your opponent.
--If they don't do anything --> Grab them again, repeat.
--If they spot dodge --> Can get them with any attack really. If you're expecting it, you can time a smash or another grab on them.
--If they roll backwards --> Upsmash can cover both behind and infront of you, if you don't know if they'll spotdodge or roll backwards.
--If they jump --> I like to jump up with them and Bair. It's quick enough to get the job done. Or even upsmash to scare them some more.
--If they attack you --> Usually the best option is to SH Fair or Nair. With the space they cover it's usually safe.
Basically, it's just a prediction game. It is Ike's closest thing to a tech chasing game...I know it's not that at all, but it's the closest thing he's got. Just read/guess your opponent and punish them for w/e they choose to do.
Other things to do with Fthrow/Bthrow:
--Near ledges: Throw them off to set up for the edgeguard. One thing I like to do is just fall off the ledge immediately and Fair. It surprises them since it comes out so quick and can kill at the right percent (or gimp if they used their second jump right away, but that depends on who you're fighting). You will have just enough to get back to the stage with your double jump and aether. Just be sure you don't miss, you could get edgehogged.
--Against a wall: Fthrow them to death. Time it right they can't get out. If you're facing the wrong way, Bthrow will set it up with no problems, you can regrab them easily. I usually finish with an uptilt kill, but feel free to do w/e.
Sorry if I'm biased, but Fthrow has the best potential for Ike imo."
"All of Ike's throws are decent in my opinion.
First, his grab range is pure crap, so try to slide shield throw as much as you can(though this won't happen much). Shield grabbing I find to be fairly pointless most of the time because of Jab or down smash for a quick punish when something is shielded that recovers semi quick, so I realy only throw to break down defense.
Forward throw is decent. If the opponent does not sidestep or roll you can grab them again into another forward throw or whichever throw you like. Doing this opens up more options since if they anticipate this they may jump, roll behind you, roll away from you or sidestep. If you anticipate jump you can dash into a SH uair,fair,nair or RAR bair. If you anticipate them rolling behind you can short hop nair to catch them. If you anticipate them rolling away a dash attack will catch them. Nair should catch a spot dodger as they exit out of their sidestep animation unless they sidestep again, which jabs should beat.
I rarely back throw. Obviously it's the best option if your back is facing close to the ledge, setting up edge guard. Other than that the other 3 are always better options I feel.
Down throw I tend to save up in case I need it(to avoid the move staling). Reason being if for some reasons my opponent lives to be 160% or higher it will kill a good amount of the cast then. Having it at full power makes sure that grabbing my opponent can potentially kill them, so I avoid it. At low percentages, down throw into aether is solid if the opponent can't DI for ****e.
Up throw is probably my most used. I use this to pop up instead of down throw since it really can't kill at all. Follow ups after this is just a matter of reading the opponent in the air. Don't always jump and follow them. Ground-stalk them. Follow their movement. Up tilt and up smash work very well. Up tilt because it has such high priority, and up smash to beat out a mistimed airdodge. Uair works similarly in that its active frames allow it to beat out air dodge even when the opponent air dodges as you are doing it. If the opponent goes for a laggy aerial and misses, positioning yourself next to them so they land into a forward smash or fair can work at times, but that's pure situational. One option Ike's forget about is simply letting your opponent be thrown up, watch as they air doge upon landing, grab them, and toss their *** back up in the air. This alone opens up a lot of options for you since they now have something else to worry about upon landing besides just attacks. Eruption works too because of the timing being deceptive to air dodgers, but you have to ground stalk them well and be right underneath them, or jump(don't recommend this) Fair works well if they DI in front of where Ike is facing. Short hopped fair is dope with this since if they anticipate you doing that you can short hop in their face empty as they land and grab them. Nair works because it's nair: covers both sides well, has a big hit box and good priority. Bair works out of up throw because of it's sick speed. Jumping up, doing nothing as they air dodge franticly, and Bairing right after they exit air dodge animation is sexy. Lastly, jab works well if they air dodge right before landing. If you see this coming, go near them and hold A.
Also keep in mind that if you prefer down throw over up throw that all I said about up throw still works with it." - Versatile
Nair
Previous Thoughts on Nair:
"What a nice move this is. It covers a very nice range around Ike and lasts for a good amount of time. It has potential to catch people who spot dodge or roll as the attack can stay out for just long enough.
One of the key points is the landing lag...which is very small. How small you ask? Well at the right percent, usually on the low side, you can follow up with a number of attacks with relatively good success. Commonly used follow ups include jabs, jab to grab, uptilt, Bair if you hit with the back part of Nair, or dare I say, ANOTHER Nair. Just be weary your opponent might be able to DI and/or airdodge out of these...but that's pretty much true with almost any other 'combo.'
A word of warning: I'm sure all of you know of this. The dreaded Nair suicide. Usually happens by mistake when trying to press A to get a quick jab on your opponent but you fall of the ledge and before you know it, you're doing the Nair into the abyss. You CANNOT recover from this. The attack last so long in the air you will not be able to jump and Aether back to the stage. Be cautious at the ledge as to not let this happen. But I'm sure it has happened to all of us on numerous occasions, so no worries...right? :o
Overall, a great attack in Ike's arsenal. Learn to use it." - Nair
"Nair: a very good air move for ike... with good spacing this move is deadly... it stays for quite a while so it can hit air dodgers after d-throw or f-throw like what u guys said.. i like using this move if i know that my opponent will air dodge so i could connect with neutral a combo or a,a then grab.. basically one of the moves that ike needs to pressure opponents. be careful tho... if u get chain grabbed by DeDeDe: if u got thrown off the ledge do not hit n-air or it will kill u bc it stays for a long time so u'll probably be dead to either jump or aether to grab the ledge..
In conclusion... with careful spacing this move is essential for pressuring and has alot of options after used.." - Senjiroth
"Oh, geez.
I love Nair. Quick execution, huge range, great priority, can be canceled, and a decent approach if linked to another attack. Excellent as a "combo" starter, and pretty good during a defensive game.
That being said, Nair is pretty worthless unless canceled due to the heavy lag. Ike also easily gg's when you get knocked off the edge. Fast fall + insane lag + bad recovery = dead Ike." - Taylor
"Nair can kill at high percents...I've accidently KO'd people with it a few times. If somehow you find yourself in a position where your opponent miraculously has high damage (NAIR KO's Mario at 165 with NO DI.. on FINAL DESTINATION AT GROUND LEVEL just to give you an idea...)..then see if you can get a Nair while they're in mid-air. It will surely KO them if they DI retardedly which they will since most people never expect an Ike to do NAIR in midair without a ground to cancel it on..
The trajectory it sends them is weird...it sends them up and slightly diagonal...so they would have to DI to the side.. LOLOL . How random is that?! Seeing how most people spam Nair though it probably won't kill so easily due to move degeneration.. You're looking at around 165 and up... probably lower depending on how high you hit them
again...MIRACULOUSLY..if you're opponent is really good and is good at dodging all of Ike's other attacks.. then surely a full jump'd NAIR is worth a try...hard to airdodge and nobody will see it coming. Sure you can try upair but Nair has the 270 degrees which allows more versatility. For example you can jump with your back towards them. Point is Nair is extremely hard to dodge when the full animation is allowed to be completed so most likely they WILL get hit." - Silven
"my personal favorite thing about nair is how if they dodge they still get hit if you have it placed right. It's excellent to throw out when people expect a fair. Love landing a backwards DI Nair hitting the person at their back shield leaving them with no options while i land and start punishing that shield to oblivion. " - Ussi
"Nair, the combo starter. Good for opening combos and is normally followed up with the AAA combo. I say try other things such as the D-tilt and probably the F-Smash if you're close to the edge; you'll either eat up all of their shield or they'll roll inside of you and catch the blade anyway while you're bringing it forward. Most people spam this; I wouldn't, it gets predictable. I say use it for chasers and jump in's only. But it can be easily shield grabbed so try to learn it's range." - Rok the Reaper
"Well, I like to RAR neutral air, and hit with the back part of it. If your opponent is expecting the b-air and side dodges or blocks early, you nail them. You then get a free b-air at lower damages. Sometimes, you can even get an upward angled f-tilt after the b-air.
As for getting back from the edge, I like to drop down, Aether, then drop, second jump immediately, and air dodge. The air dodge cancels on the ground, and you can do a bunch of stuff after words. Like, roll, grab, shield drop jab. Fun stuff." - DMSTUDIOS
"All I have to say that hasn't been covered already is to be careful with the spacing. Pretty much everything said about nair is correct, but don't fall so much in love with it that you forget to space it proper when short hopped. If you land directly in their face a good player will throw you, and for falco,pikachu or D3 that can be very ugly" - Versatile
Down Smash
Previous Thoughts on D-Smash:
"I believe down smash is good move when used for pure punishing. I basically use it to punish attacks or any unsafe move in which there is SLIGHTLY enough time to do something besides Jab and punish them. It is slightly faster than up tilt and faster than forward tilt as well. It does not have it's hower, but it can KO a lot of characters at around 120%. Fast enough to interupt offensive pressure(IE: when a move IS safe, but decide to continue to attack instead of block) and catchers rollers(though I never really use it for that.)" - Versatile
"DSmash is great for punishing rolls, as people have mentioned. It's also nice to do it out of a jab combo when your opponent is at the edge; jab -> jab -> DSmash can catch people who are trying to SDI the third hit and aren't shielding, or it can punish rollers with the back hit. By the way, the back hit is more powerful than the front it. It's also a nice killer if you're having trouble getting that kill when your opponent is playing "don't get hit;" it's probably the fastest ground move he has, save his dreaded jab." - Metroid1117
"Down-smash is one of ike's best out of shield counters aside from the obvious jab, and kills at good percents against lightweights and floaties." - Technomaster
Dash Attack
Previous Thoughts on Dash Attack:
"Dash attack is useful. Good for catching people off guard obviously. It's best to do it sometimes so that you go THROUGH them so shield grabbing is a little harder. Just having it as a threat is nice for setting up grabs. It's pretty much common sense when to use it and when not to. Be smart about it, and definitely don't spam. Beats out some weaker projectiles." - Versatile
"Dash attack is purely used as an unexpected approach. I like to vary approaches from dash attack.. SH Nair.. spaced Full hopped Fair.. RAR Bair.. and running shield grab. It is great if they are getting back down to the ground and you know you can't reach them with any aerial approach before they have time to shield. Decent knock back when hit with the middle. I like it.. but like Versatile said... don't spam.. use it smart and sparingly" - Fire_Wulf
"Dash attack is awkward, but it is useful for punishing people who like to roll/tech away from you because Ike gets a huge forward boost from using it; QD is . Unfortunately, he doesn't get the momentum that would make boost smashing (canceling dash attack with USmash) useful. It's also nice to use when your opponent is going for the edge from above, thinking that Ike won't be able to reach them; at that distance, a QD would hit them and help them because they can DI upwards and have the option of landing on the stage. It is, however, horribly laggy; I wouldn't advise using this as an approach because it's easily shielded/avoided and punished...Dash attack can actually clash with Lucas' PK Fire (in the sense that there's no fire-splash)" - Metroid1117
"I find dash attack to be a very good approach method to clear out campers. Take Din's Fire for ex. So Zelda's spamming sideB. I run while perfect shielding, then when I'm in the range I do a dash attack quickly so that the max range of the attack hits Zelda while she is doing the initial frames of the sideB. This works b/c the opponent won't really expect the range to be that long, and also b/c the lag of the dash attack where he sort of pauses can throw off where they are aiming with their projectile. And then suddenly you accelerate forward doing your dash attack." - 3XSWORDS
"I personally use the dash attack to tech chase, as it's Ike's only viable way to do so. The range on it is insane, as Ike does some crazy extra step on the attack execution. However things like lag and predictability keep the move from being overused." - TREBOR-NELLA
Counter (Down B)
Previous Thoughts on Counter:
"I find counter to be extremely hard to pull off consistently. It's practically only useful on extremely aggro opponents, as the sound Coutner makes is so obvious and doesn't actually activate when the cound clanks (most annoying thing EVER(). That allows them to either hit you with an extremely fast attack, grab, or know you're vulnerable enough to hit with something beefier like a charged smash. >.> I just don't like the move, really. xD" - TREBOR NELLA
"Counter needs to be used in an intelligent manner, period. Really focusing on your opponent's movement, patterns and aggressiveness. People spam this TOO much at times. Sometime it is simply better to block, spot dodge, or air dodge. You FEEL when its a good time to use it in your gut, and thats when you do.
Counter is extremely helpful vs Meta Knight. Sometimes air dodging vs him simply isn't a good idea. He absolutely KILLS inaccuracy, and even when you're on point with your air dodge/sidestep he still tears you up. Sometimes the risk needs to be taken and you have to go for counter. Shoot, sometimes if you DON'T you will be put into a almost guaranteed off the stage situation.
Besides Meta, it works well vs slower characters like Bowser, DK, Ike, etc.
and obviously counter works well vs anyone who is predictable, so yeah." - VERSATILE
"First and foremost, Counter should ALWAYS be used in the air. If you're on the ground, there are much better options - jab, shield, grab, roll, charge upsmash for lulmindgames, whatever.
Counter being a combo breaker isn't too great, but I sometimes find myself unable to airdodge or retaliate against characters like Marth or Fox simply because of speed. The startup time is pretty bad, but if you pull it off at the right time, Counter can be very rewarding. Being able to switch from being pummeled to a position where Ike can go on the offensive (which is frightening, by the way) is always great. One thing I find myself doing a lot is neglecting to DI properly and look for an airdodge. Airdodges are better. Mixing in a counter will throw your opponent off, though.
For edgeguarding, I have no handier tool than Counter. If your opponent is smart, then he/she will come back BELOW the edge line. Which is to be expected, as fairs, spikes, and aethers are pretty easy to avoid after a mistimed airdodge. Since Counter lasts so long, it can work against even characters with hard-to-predict upb executions, like Lucas.
Mindgames...you should all about this back from our days in Melee, spamming Roy's counter. It's pretty much been covered up above, thoug" - TAYLOR
"Ike's Counter works in Ike dittos vs Aether ^_^ if you don't feel like precisely using Fair then just go all up in their business and time your counter hehe ^_~" - SILVEN
Up-Air
Previous Thoughts on Up-Air
"This is my favorite move in the game by far. Love it. This baby has RIDICULOUS priority, power and decent speed. This move is very tricky to air dodge and must be timed proper. Grat for setting up bair in that if you jump up on your opponent from underneath they are expecting this, causing them to airdodge. If you stay close after they air dodge and your back is near them, bair has a VERY high chance of connecting.
Use the fear of being hit with this move to set up a whole lot of stuff! Listen to Fire_Wulf's ledge uair strats too " - VERSATILE
"It seems to me that on the vertical game, ike's u-air has possibly the most priority, if not, one of the top 3 vertical attacks.
It out prioritizes Link's D-air.... its pretty sha-weet
and to top it off, you have to time your air-dodge perfectly to go right through it." - NovaLombardia
"Favorite part about Uair... the fact that it last long. If you space it correctly... they will air dodge the first part and then get hit with the second swing. I try to get it in after a Utilt if they don't DI correctly cuz it is a huge punisher.
One neat thing i like to do is Uair when on the ledge. If you pull back and then jump and Uair... the blade will just get above the edge.. hitting anyone who is standing too close.. plus when it is done you can Aether and it is the perfect distance so you don't get hit by the opponent while recovering and you can still grab the edge. It helps to keep people back while you get back on the stage." - FIRE_WULF
Jab
Previous Thoughts on Jab:
VERSATILE ON JAB
"Ok, I may have been overexaggerating earlier about Iike being unplayable without throws(though I still feel he'd be awful), but without Jab he truly would be a joke. Nobody who uses Ike has to be told this. Sadly, though, a lot of Ike's go about using Jab incorrectly.
Firstly, if the first 2 hits of jab are blocked PLEASE do not do the third. Why? Well, there's this little thing call sidestep, and it's extremely easy to step the last hit and leave Ike wide open. Doing the jab series again after it is blocked or sidestepped can trick people sometimes, but it's best not to depend on that.
HOLD Jab instead of tapping Jab. This makes the jab combo come out at maximum speed all the time without having to worry about tapping and make it slower in between each hit(making it easier to interrupt). Holding also makes letting go upon seeing it blocked or hit much more reliable.
Holding back also works so well because of Brawl's jabbing engine in general. If a character is floating slightly off the ground, Jab will continue to reset to the first hit until the engine believes the 3rd hit can connect. Because of this you can have a lot of 1,2 1,2 1,2 1,2,3 series with Jab. Hold...don't tap. Can't stress that enough.
Jab is your ultimate punisher. Block anything fast enough that none of Ike's slower attacks can hit? Jab. These include sword dance by parth, Snake's forward tilt, Snake's jab combo, missed throw attempts, Samus' dair, whatever.
Jab has great priority and interrupts a lot of things. Upon fairing, nairiing, etc and having it blocked, sometimes jabbing is a good option against overall aggressive opponents. I can't even count the amount of times opponents have just ran into it.
Jabbing right outside of hitting range keeps defenses honest. From this you have many options? They keep blocking? Dash in and throw, dash in short hop back nair, etc. If you feel they are going to go in for an attack, short hop back fair. Use your head pretty much.
As everyone knows, after a whiffed quick draw, Jab is a great follow up. Be wise about this and try to read the opponent and their spacing well to maximize this use. QDing into Jab can allow you to mix up QD into throw if the opponent tries to just block.
Jabbing is anti sidestep for the most part. Someone is going to sidestep you? Holding jab in their face. More times tha not Jab is going to eat them up if they try to do anything. I like to keep jabbing even if they continue to spam side step. Short hop nair out of jab spam to beat sidestep is helpful too. It is semi flow, and can catch sidestep.
Jab on block is tricky. Like I said, if Jab is blocked it's best to stop after the 2nd hit(first hit if you ANTICIPATE jab being blocked). Single jab being blocked gives you some good options. Short hop nair BEHIND the opponent or away. Short hop away fair, grab, etc.
Jab is excellent for beating air dodge from right above the ground(like right before it can be cancelled into a shield). When ground stalking, look at when the opponent air dodges. Sometimes walking near them and holding jab so they fall into your jab combo right out of the air dodge is effective. They will be floating, too, so if you hold jab there's a high chance you wil lget the extended series. Doing this can cause the opponent to try to attack on the way down instead or air dodge. If you anticipate this, block, and punish with Jab anyway ^_^.
Jab on ground hit really opens up Ike's meta game. Single, or double Jab gives you lots of sexy options. Jab(or jab,jab) into throw is a staple. If opponent try to sidestep after eating too many of those, instead of grabbing after the jabs, walk up after them and hold it so that you can beat their sidestep. If they try to jump away or towards you with an attack to avoid it, short hop fair towards or away from them. It's all a matter of anticipation and reading the opponent.
Jab into nair is really sexy especially for the sidestep happy. Jab,jab, they go for sidestep? You're already in the air nairing(away from them preferably to increase the chance of being unpunished if blocked).
Jab jab on hit can give you some other sexy set ups that can really mess someone up who is too anxious. Jab,jab, forward tilt and Jab,jab,forward smash both can annihilate a mistimed sidestep or air dodge, or simply someone who's mentalitiy is, foolishly, that "I've been hit by the first 2 so I'm going to eat the third. I'm not even going to try to avoid the 3rd"...fail.
Jab canceling can be effective for those who don't go out of their away to avoid Jab once caught in it as well. Do this by jabbing once, then tapping down to cancel the animation, and jabbing again. If they don't attempt to intterupt the jab combo, you can extend your combo fairly long. Jab cancel, jab cancel,jab cancel, hold jab. Stuff like that.
Holding jab when edge guarding can be effective depending on who you're facing and what character they are using. Hopping back onto the ledge with an aerial can be ugly, but jab will beat many moves used for this. Holding jab to provoke a ledge hop, rising attack, etc can be effective. As SOON as you SEE or ANTICIPATE the opponent doing anything, let go of Jab and quickly short hop fair, forward smash, up tilt, up smash, or forward tilt. Whatever you use is dependent on what the opponent is going to do, so just be wise. Implementing fake/intentional jab attempts can cause Ike's already formidable edge guard game to become scary.
Jab, jab jab baby!"
TREBOR NELLA ON JAB
"U-tilt is a great move to Jab-Cancel into"
RPK ON JAB
"Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that Ike's jab is the fastest move in his arsenal. It deals a good amount of damage if all 3 connect, in addition it has a good amount of priority. Im able to cancel out projectiles with it and am also able to over take most moves because of it. It isnt really a move that shouldnt be used as an offensive move because of its inability to kill. I think it should be used more as a get the hell off of me kind of move because of its speed and priority. In addition, because of its high priority, you can stop someone dead in their tracks for those who like to rush. You are also able to cancel the first jab and then after grab them."
Back-Air
Previous thoughts on Back-Air:
3XSWORDS ON BAIR
'B-air is best combo'd into with n-air around mid%'s. Particularly a backwards n-air (I think Silven mentioned this earlier). Out of shield it is amazing. I use it for killing and intimidation. Multiple b-airs in front of the opponent will scare the **** out of them. Its an ok edgeguard if they are not recovering from directly below the edge. I like this move the best b/c of the quickness and aiming isn't too hard, just have to get used to it.'
FIREWULF ON BAIR
"I actually use to spam the Bair and degraded it till it didn't do anything anymore. Then i figured out how to space the Fair and the Bair almost disappeared. Like previously stated by others.. Bair is great after a Nair that hits with the back. When you don't use it... the Bair is a surprise that the opponent forgot about while they were watching for everything else. I love to use it when they are at high damage for a huge quick knock back move that will most likely kill depending on the percentage.
I will also find myself using it on heavier characters multiple times while they are trying to recover high to avoid my spikes.
One use of the Bair that is difficult to pull off.... but oh so fulfilling.... is to fast fall the Bair and land it on tiny characters. If they are medium damage and you can get the hit off... they fly so far and are immediately forced to work on recovering giving you the opportunity to edge gaurd. The problem with this is if you don't do it high enough the hitbox won't come out and you won't hit them. The second down side is if you do it too high you will swing right over their little heads and be easy game for combos. Like i said... risk with high reward. Not necessarily high risk as you will only die from a missed bair on rare occasions.. but you will get severely punished if you do miss."
EMPY ON BAIR
"I have 1 use of bair that I really love. The most of all. Powershield > bair. Seriously people, it might sound stupid, but it really works out if your going for it. Sometimes I just stand there asking for a certain hit, purely to attempt powershielding it. Sometimes I just happen to powershield and without even thinking my hands go *wham bang boem bair* (shut up I'm 22). I don't know why I love it so much but everytime I land it it makes me want to play Brawl some more."
VERSATILE ON BAIR
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This move is Ike's fastest besides Jab. It is not a move you will(or even should) use too much. I believe it is at it's most use when used as a fast, punishing, KO move. Ike's Jab, fair, nair and up tilt are just too good of tools to require much bair uses in my personal opinion. As I'm sure it has been stated, bair out of a short hop is sexy. It's speed can allow you to trick people into air dodging early to avoid a slower aerial like uair or fair only to eat a bair to the face.
So I don't sound like a broken record I won't elaborate on much more of the goodness that is Bair unless when going to post Bair and Jab quotes on page 1 I notice a lack of good bair info from you guys(I doubt it). However, a personaly favorite set up of mine is "front bairing". Essentially doing a purposel whiffed bair while facing forward to provoke a shield job which can give you a free jab combo a lot of the time."
KODACHROME ON BAIR
"What I'm talking about is simply turning quickly and using your bair. Once you get good enough at it, you can use it just as fast as if you had your back to them the entire time.
There's a few ways to to it-dash back and jump at the same time for a retreating bair (i don't like this one so much,) or simply gently tilt the control stick in the opposite direction you're facing so you turn and then shorthop bair. Do it quickly, and the turn animation will never even appear. It's a standing reverse aerial rush. Do it even MORE quickly, and you can move aerially toward your opponent or away, afterward.
The only reason I keep posting about it is because it's so useful when they're out of jab range and you want a faster move than your tilts, and it really punishes dash attackers...but I've never seen a single person use it or even mention it. I was kinda hoping I had contributed something useful. x("
KIRK ON BAIR
"I use it mainly for people coming back high from the ledge...attempting to mindgame them into an unsuspecting Bair. I also like to autocancel them...it can catch people off guard sometimes if lets say you follow up with a jab or tilt right after. Sometimes I just fall off the ledge, jump back up and Bair if they tend to chase after me."
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***Related Videos:
Ike's Complete Moveset Close-up
