R.I.P. (in my view) Ice Climbers

[joepinion]

Warning: Duh, I know that it's not proven that the IC aren't in. It's just that the way things are going, it appears to ME that they are gone.

If you've been keeping up with the Smash Icon Discovery thread, you know that the running, and most likely flawless theory is that the icons are web addressed in this order:

1. Original SSB64 franchises in Japanese alphabetical order
2. SSBM new franchises in Japanese alphabetical order
3. SSBB new franchises in Japanese alphabetical order

Here's a list of confirmed icons and their order:

01: Dairantō Smash Brothers (Super Smash Bros.)
02: Donkī Kongu (Donkey Kong)
03: Fokkusu (Star Fox)
04: Hoshi no Kābii/Kābii (Kirby)
05: Kyaputen Farukon (F-Zero)
06: Metoroido
07: ??? (Most likely will be Mother/Earthbound)
08: Pokemon/Poketto Monsutā
09: Rinku (Zelda)
10: Sūpā Mario (Super Mario)
11: Yosshī (Yoshi)

12: Faia Emuburemu (Fire Emblem)
13:
14:

15: Dōbutsu no Mori (Animal Crossing)
16: Made in Wario (Wario Ware, it's NOT Wario as a whole)
17:
18: Parutena no Kagami (Kid Icarus)

Here are the Japanese names of Ice Climbers and G&W:

Aisu Kuraima (Ice Climbers)
Gemu ando Uotchi (Game&Watch)

Uh-oh! So not only has IC's stage been (potentially) replaced by a DK stage, but now their name doesn't fit in alphabetically.

G&W still has a chance.

R.I.P. Ice Climbers. To me, this could mean Diddy & Dixie in as a team.

Initiate flame war........ NOW.

 

[Jackal478]

i dont think they're doing any kind of order, but good job sorting that out

 

[Master_Yang]

I think you're probably right that we're looking at the end of the Ice Climbers. If Sakurai does continue with a two-person character though, I'd say we might see the Boy and Girl from Animal Crossing...he does seem to like that game, and with all the tools and things they have, a moveset shouldn't be hard to make.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I don't think he's doing an specific order, I think it's just coincidence.

 

[the grim lizard]

I don't care either way. Dedede is the new hammer-wielder in town.

But, good work on that.

OK, here's something else: Assuming you are right and ICs are out (which I'm not entirely convinced yet) and G&W stays...that means that #14 is a new series for Brawl. Let's keep going with this and assume it's alphabetical in Japanese...a new series, which (in Japanese) is alphabetically before Dōbutsu no Mori. What would it be?? (It would also mean Metal Gear is #17...)

OK, I got time to kill...Pikmin in Japanese is Pikumin, Megaman in Japense is Rokkuman, Sonic in Japanese is Sonikku za Hejjihoggu, Bomberman in Japanese is Bonbāman, Pacman is the same, I think...any other new series that we are anticipating??

 

[Pieman0920]

*facepalm*

There are two things wrong with the TC's observation, both being fatal flaws to it.

One is that you are using character names in conjunction with series names. That makes no sense.

Second, you alphabetized them. The Japanese do not have our alphabet. They have their own. Their equivalent to A is not followed by the equivalent to B.

 

[joepinion]

*facepalm*

There are two things wrong with the TC's observation, both being fatal flaws to it.

One is that you are using character names in conjunction with series names. That makes no sense.

Second, you alphabetized them. The Japanese do not have our alphabet. They have their own. Their equivalent to A is not followed by the equivalent to B.

Alright, a few clarifications:

I did NOT figure out this alphabetical thing myself. A few people had a hand in it, and I am not one, so I am NOT trying to take credit for that. For more info, check out this thread.

Secondly... I'm no expert and could be wrong about this, but I do think Japanese people have adapted to use the same letters as us very often, albeit in their own language. I know this is for sure of Koreans because I have a few Korean friends. I am not 100% sure about the Japanese but note that their web addresses for the Japanese Smash site are, you know, not in Japanese characters.

Coincidence?? Eh.... I dunno. This isn't something like the update "patterns," there is some pretty solid evidence behind this.

Finally, I (or rather not me but the person that came up with this) am not using names in conjunction with franchises. Just the franchise names. Some franchise names are also character names, that's all.

 

[Master_Yang]

*facepalm*

There are two things wrong with the TC's observation, both being fatal flaws to it.

One is that you are using character names in conjunction with series names. That makes no sense.

Second, you alphabetized them. The Japanese do not have our alphabet. They have their own. Their equivalent to A is not followed by the equivalent to B.

If for the character names thing you're referring to grim lizard's post, all the names he mentioned are also the names of their respective series.

EDIT: Might have to to take that back sorry - Zelda's series is called Zelda no Densetsu (Legend of Zelda), so should be at the bottom of the alphabet.

And Japanese has several possible alphabets, but Romanji (writing Japanese words using Roman letters) is a logical choice in programing, game titles etc. So it's entirely plausible for the alphabetic order theory to work.

 

[MzNetta]

That theory has been proven flawed too many times.
Youre all just reaching for straws and changing things around, forcing them to fit into your theory.

I'll keep my ICs ty.

 

[joepinion]

Hmm. Well I had not known about the "Rinku" flaw before. Not sure what to think about that.

However, that is the only problem, I think. Everything else seems to be simply changed to Japanese and slotted in.

don't write off the theory completely, I think it holds some ground.

 

[Xsyven]

Japanese alphabeet:

A, I, U, E, O, KA, KI, KU, KE, KO, SA, SHI, SU, SE SO, TA, CHI, TSU... etc...

And the random scattering of character names and series titles is completely weird. If t his was somehow correct, they could, for all we know, be under P for Popo.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Yeah, many others have pointed out many things I wanted to say... so I'll just come by and say, ICE CLIMBERS FOR BRAWL!!!

 

[skullkidd]

I think you went a little too advanced with the whole alphabetical things, but yeah, Ice Climbers do not have the best chance of making it into Brawl.

But, they a pleasant surprise in Melee, and the fact that they were two characters and had a unique moveset made them very original.

 

[joepinion]

Ok, you people have made me far less confident in this theory than when I started this thread.

That's what can be nice about message boards, when it's not a bunch of flaming. We can talk through things and get everyone on the right page.

Whether the theory is real or not, though, my guess is still that the IC are gone. This of course is based on the same uninhibited speculation of people who think they will be in.

 

[the grim lizard]

As I said in the beginning...It doesn't matter because Triple D is coming to the party.

 

[Espy Rose]

Japanese alphabeet:

A, I, U, E, O, KA, KI, KU, KE, KO, SA, SHI, SU, SE SO, TA, CHI, TSU... etc...

And the random scattering of character names and series titles is completely weird. If t his was somehow correct, they could, for all we know, be under P for Popo.

Well, if it helps any, at all, in Debug Menu in Melee they were called POPONANA.

And also, for all we know, there could be more series after the last one in that theory of yours.

Its a long shot, but again I'm targeting Melee's Debug mode, were the characters were all placed in alphabetical order, but after Yoshi, many hidden characters were put in no order whatsoever.

 

[oxyborb]

I'll bet Nintendo will at least make them downloadable. Why the heck wouldn't they cash in on at least a few downloadable characters/items/stages? God knows everyone would buy almost EVERYthing they could come out with for Smash!

p.s. ICs leaving would be horrible, as they are my main.

 

[the grim lizard]

I don't see things being downloadable for purchase. That just wouldn't be right.

 

[Super Smash Master]

Stop trying to act intelligent. Wait until Sakurai confirms or deconfirms them.

 

[GraniteJJ]

Although the arranging things by order of their Japanese names seems bogus (as I doubt they care that much about the procedure of information release), I have to say that noticing the number of icons was quite clever of the poster Zinc on these forums (the creator of this thread linked to it).

And, while there may be MORE than 18 series represented, the point here is that we know that there is AT LEAST 18 series represented. And, considering the gaps, we know that there are three new series' that have yet to surface. One of them will likely be Snake and a Metal Gear symbol. That still leaves two blanks. And keep in mind, this is related to actual franchises, not just characters. So, we could still get Ganondorf as a new character, without using up one of those "series" icons.

Now, hopefully, there will be more than 18. but it is good to know that there is at least a few new franchises being represented. I'm still holding out for Golden Sun, Pikmin, and Punch-Out!! to get representation.

 

[the grim lizard]

THERE WILL BE MORE THAN 18. Please let's not go there. When that "discover" first came about, there was only room for one new series, assuming all others returned. We got the AC icon; thus there shouldn't be any new ones. But we know we'll get more 3rd parties and characters like Ct. Olimar. So, blah blah blah...no more of this.

 

[bksands77]

if they do get the axe

i would want kat and ana to replace them

 

[Kakashi-dono]

Shaddup, dont hate on the ICs

Warning: Duh, I know that it's not proven that the IC aren't in. It's just that the way things are going, it appears to ME that they are gone.

If you've been keeping up with the Smash Icon Discovery thread, you know that the running, and most likely flawless theory is that the icons are web addressed in this order:

1. Original SSB64 franchises in Japanese alphabetical order
2. SSBM new franchises in Japanese alphabetical order
3. SSBB new franchises in Japanese alphabetical order

Here's a list of confirmed icons and their order:

01: Dairantō Smash Brothers (Super Smash Bros.)
02: Donkī Kongu (Donkey Kong)
03: Fokkusu (Star Fox)
04: Hoshi no Kābii/Kābii (Kirby)
05: Kyaputen Farukon (F-Zero)
06: Metoroido
07: ??? (Most likely will be Mother/Earthbound)
08: Pokemon/Poketto Monsutā
09: Rinku (Zelda)
10: Sūpā Mario (Super Mario)
11: Yosshī (Yoshi)

12: Faia Emuburemu (Fire Emblem)
13:
14:

15: Dōbutsu no Mori (Animal Crossing)
16: Made in Wario (Wario Ware, it's NOT Wario as a whole)
17:
18: Parutena no Kagami (Kid Icarus)

Here are the Japanese names of Ice Climbers and G&W:

Aisu Kuraima (Ice Climbers)
Gemu ando Uotchi (Game&Watch)

Uh-oh! So not only has IC's stage been (potentially) replaced by a DK stage, but now their name doesn't fit in alphabetically.

G&W still has a chance.

R.I.P. Ice Climbers. To me, this could mean Diddy & Dixie in as a team.

Initiate flame war........ NOW.

the ICs may not hav a chance in Brawl, but, they r still cool.(If u catch my drift)

 

[Kakashi-dono]

Stop trying to act intelligent. Wait until Sakurai confirms or deconfirms them.

Im with u pal, i concur

 

[konoha107]

Yeah, I also really don't think IC have a good chance of returning, even though they were pretty awesome. The reason I say this is that...well...just like G&W, the Ice Climbers were retro. And that means that Sakurai may want some different retro characters. And even though I didn't really think Fire Emblem would return (I was way wrong, and I'm very happy), that may have been a more popular series considering that they brought it to America after Melee was released.
I don't hate the IC, and I would like it if they return. But, the chances don't look good right now.

 

[Roun]

Well, as someone already said, using English letters is a lot easier when it comes to programing. If you ever take something in Japanese, including kanji, and make it sort it alphabetically, it becomes impossible to find anything(as I believe that kanji are sorted according to their on reading).

Though, I don't really have a solution to the "Rinku" thing. Still, it's a pretty good theory otherwise.

 

[the grim lizard]

Stop double posting, Kakashi.

People have really weird logic around here...

 

[SuperAce]

Friends, Friends! Sakurai-sensei wants at least 40 characters. That's a lot of people. We're up to 31 if you include Zero Samus and Shiek as seperate people. 29 if not. There's plenty of room for new retro characters, new faves and even an extra 3rd party. Take a look at a list.

Super Mario
Luigi Mario
Pikachu Ketchum
Jigglypuff (Aka Purin)
Mewtwo
Pichu
Link, the Hero of Time
Young Link
Warpstar Warrior Kirby
Metaknight, Blade of the Warpstar Warriors
Samus Aran/Zero Suit Samus
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Princess Peach
Princess Zelda/Shiek
Lord Ganondorf
Fox McCloud
Falco Lombardi
King Bowser Koopa
Wario Wario
Pit, the Kid Icharus
Solid Snake
Prince Marth
Lord Roy
Lord Ike
Mr. Game & Watch
Nana and Popo the Ice Climbers
Ness
Dr. Mario

See? Only 29. There's room for Sonic, and Lucas, and Megaman, and Lucario, and Ray 01, Diddy Kong and five more characters. Even frickin' Wolf and Riddly.
He might not stop there, it could end up being 45, just no more than 50. The Climbers are probably still in. We just gotta remember that this game is HUGE. Besides, there's no reason to make 20 all new character models.

 

[Pit 42]

Friends, Friends! Sakurai-sensei wants at least 40 characters. That's a lot of people. We're up to 31 if you include Zero Samus and Shiek as seperate people. 29 if not. There's plenty of room for new retro characters, new faves and even an extra 3rd party. Take a look at a list.

Super Mario
Luigi Mario
Pikachu Ketchum
Jigglypuff (Aka Purin)
Mewtwo
Pichu
Link, the Hero of Time
Young Link
Warpstar Warrior Kirby
Metaknight, Blade of the Warpstar Warriors
Samus Aran/Zero Suit Samus
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Princess Peach
Princess Zelda/Shiek
Lord Ganondorf
Fox McCloud
Falco Lombardi
King Bowser Koopa
Wario Wario
Pit, the Kid Icharus
Solid Snake
Prince Marth
Lord Roy
Lord Ike
Mr. Game & Watch
Nana and Popo the Ice Climbers
Ness
Dr. Mario

See? Only 29. There's room for Sonic, and Lucas, and Megaman, and Lucario, and Ray 01, Diddy Kong and five more characters. Even frickin' Wolf and Riddly.
He might not stop there, it could end up being 45, just no more than 50. The Climbers are probably still in. We just gotta remember that this game is HUGE. Besides, there's no reason to make 20 all new character models.

First, we don't need to see your Brawl wishlist in an Ice Climber thread.

Second, just because the game will be huge doesn't mean the Ice Climbers will make the cut.

 

[RBinator]

Uh-oh! So not only has IC's stage been (potentially) replaced by a DK stage...

Seeing how everyone else is focused on the other part of the theory, I'll focus with this one. As seen as I saw that stage last week, I just knew someone would use that as an argument for why the ICs won't return.

How does a stage prove much? Who's to say that if the ICs return that they simply won't have a new stage designed? How do we know they won't use a similar stage like the one in Melee? We already have many stages in with the Battlefield layout.

Wouldn't that be like arguing that the Mario Kart stage which looks similar to Mute City from Melee somehow means Captain Falcon won't return?

 

[Master_Yang]

Well, as someone already said, using English letters is a lot easier when it comes to programing. If you ever take something in Japanese, including kanji, and make it sort it alphabetically, it becomes impossible to find anything(as I believe that kanji are sorted according to their on reading).

Though, I don't really have a solution to the "Rinku" thing. Still, it's a pretty good theory otherwise.

*nods* Kanji are indeed sorted by reading. God, I can imagine trying to program with that.

At any rate, I can't think of any way to make "Rinku" fit the theory either, so oh well. I still think the ICs are going to be dropped, but in the end, if they're there it's no skin of my nose - the more smashers, the better^^

 

[SmashChu]

F-Zero is "F-Zero" in Japan, so that alone disproves the theory.

 

[andrewg]

I honestly think that all the characters will make it back in.

 

[SAMaine]

Warning: Duh, I know that it's not proven that the IC aren't in. It's just that the way things are going, it appears to ME that they are gone.

If you've been keeping up with the Smash Icon Discovery thread, you know that the running, and most likely flawless theory is that the icons are web addressed in this order:

1. Original SSB64 franchises in Japanese alphabetical order
2. SSBM new franchises in Japanese alphabetical order
3. SSBB new franchises in Japanese alphabetical order

Here's a list of confirmed icons and their order:

01: Dairantō Smash Brothers (Super Smash Bros.)
02: Donkī Kongu (Donkey Kong)
03: Fokkusu (Star Fox)
04: Hoshi no Kābii/Kābii (Kirby)
05: Kyaputen Farukon (F-Zero)
06: Metoroido
07: ??? (Most likely will be Mother/Earthbound)
08: Pokemon/Poketto Monsutā
09: Rinku (Zelda)
10: Sūpā Mario (Super Mario)
11: Yosshī (Yoshi)

12: Faia Emuburemu (Fire Emblem)
13:
14:

15: Dōbutsu no Mori (Animal Crossing)
16: Made in Wario (Wario Ware, it's NOT Wario as a whole)
17:
18: Parutena no Kagami (Kid Icarus)

Here are the Japanese names of Ice Climbers and G&W:

Aisu Kuraima (Ice Climbers)
Gemu ando Uotchi (Game&Watch)

Uh-oh! So not only has IC's stage been (potentially) replaced by a DK stage, but now their name doesn't fit in alphabetically.

G&W still has a chance.

R.I.P. Ice Climbers. To me, this could mean Diddy & Dixie in as a team.

Initiate flame war........ NOW.

I can easily prove using your OWN method, that the Ice Climbers CAN be in Brawl.

01: Dairantō Smash Brothers (Super Smash Bros.)
02: Donkī Kongu (Donkey Kong)
03: Fokkusu (Star Fox Fox)
04: Hoshi no Kābii/Kābii (Kirby)
05: Kyaputen Farukon (F-Zero Captain Falcon)
06: Metoroido (Metroid)
07: Mazā (Mother, assumed) (This disproves it outright, as it MUST be Mother)
08: Poketto Monsutā (Pokemon)
09: Rinku (Zelda Link)
10: Sūpā Mario (Super Mario)
11: Yosshī (Yoshi)

12: Faia Emuburemu (Fire Emblem) Aiku (Ike)
13: Aisu Kuraima (Ice Climbers, assumed)
14: Gemu ando Uotchi (Game & Watch, assumed)

15: Dōbutsu no Mori (Animal Crossing)
16: Made in Wario (Wario Ware, it's NOT Wario as a whole)
17: Metaru Gia (Metal Gear, assumed)
18: Parutena no Kagami (Kid Icarus)

 

[Master_Yang]

Except that if you change the names of series to character names...Kid Icarus would be Pitto, and Made in Wario would simply be Wario...meaning Kid Icarus should come before Wario on the list.

 

[SAMaine]

Tell that to the one who made this thread. I just used his random method.

 

[Xaron Fisk]

I honestly think that all the characters will make it back in.

me too, despite Sakurai saying otherwise.

 

[Ianthraxx]

Er... nevermind. XD

I said pretty much exactly what SAMaine said. But I somehow missed his post. D'oh.

I don't think all the characters will make it back in, though. Just their franchises. I don't really think we need Young Link, or Dr. Mario, or Roy, etc etc, for example.

 

[the grim lizard]

Doc and Pichu??

I'm still not sure why people constantly jump at the chance to say ICs aren't coming back. No one does that with G&W...

 

[_the_sandman_]

IC will be back. If anyone is going to bring us an all ice level its going to be them.

Not to mention they have been appearing all throughout Nintendo history. If I recall weren't they in Animal Crossing? And I have two speculations about the character.

1. It will just be Popo because two characters are overpowered.
Or....
2. They'll stay the same, and no one else will be a duel character. That way they are considered unique to the roster.