Quick Multishine question

[SomethingRaven]

When you preform a successful doubleshine should you be able to jump/WD/shine grab out of the second one or will your jump be gone to do any of those options?

 

[AirFair]

Well, if you doubleshine fast enough, you won't leave the ground, but even if you do, just wd in place to get on ground. Ideally, you should be able to tho.

 

[PCHU]

The cool part about multishining is that if your timing is on point, you can do it as many times as you want and retain both your first and double jump.

 

[tauKhan]

Well, if you doubleshine fast enough, you won't leave the ground

False, the second shine is aerial for minimum of 5 frames after the jump out of first shine. This means that if you want to grounded jump out of doubleshine, you have to wait extra 2 frames for falco to land, or you'll dj instead.

Edit: I believe in pm you land immediately though, so there jump -> grounded shine is actually possible. This is because the landing detection system is different. In melee the collision box goes very high and doesn't cover legs at all right after jump, so the shine doesn't land immediately, even though the shine happens basically at normal standing height.

 

[AirFair]

Lol I don't know all of the frames. I probably should start learning.

 

[SSS]

Successful doubleshine should leave you grounded. You do have to wait 2 frames longer after shine 2 (if doing frame perfect multishines) because you're in the air slightly. That being said, nobody actually does consistent frame perfect multishines. The part that NEEDS to be frame perfect, no matter what, is the X>B. The B to X is just how "fast" the shines are. Frame perfect multishines (as fast as possible) are around 327 BPM.

 

[tauKhan]

@ SSS Proofread your posts , I'm sure you know how this works, but you ended up contradicting yourself. Doubleshine won't leave you grounded if you have to wait because you are in the air, even though you land very quickly. With falco on hit it actually isn't too hard to press jump too fast, since the first possible grounded jump timing is frame 10 from shine out of jump.

And frame perfect multishines with falco are 360 BPM on whiff and around 257 BPM on hit. Cycle on hit is shine 1 hit + 4 frames more hitlag + 4 frames waiting to land + 5 frames jumpsquat = 14 frames.

 

[SSS]

@ SSS Proofread your posts , I'm sure you know how this works, but you ended up contradicting yourself. Doubleshine won't leave you grounded if you have to wait because you are in the air, even though you land very quickly. With falco on hit it actually isn't too hard to press jump too fast, since the first possible grounded jump timing is frame 10 from shine out of jump.

And frame perfect multishines with falco are 720 BPM on whiff and around 527 BPM on hit (Not counting directional input, because you can just hold it, just jumps and shines). Cycle on hit is shine 1 hit + 4 frames more hitlag + 4 frames waiting to land + 5 frames jumpsquat = 14 frames.

it should leave you grounded after 2 frames, if you're not frame perfect it's WAY longer than 2 frames, it's like a million frames before you hit the ground. you're PRACTICALLY grounded, i should say.

it's not 720 BPM, you can do a shine every 11 frames. There are 3600 frames in a minute, 3600/11 = 327

 

[tauKhan]

@ SSS No you are landed on frame 6 (counting 1st shine frame as frame 1) if you shine on the first aerial frame. You technically land frame 5, but because actions are done before movement, jumping frame 5 still causes dj. It's still correct that you need to only wait 2 additional frames when multishining, but that's because you can jump out of shine frame 4 the earliest. And with falco it's definitely possible to jump too fast. I even sometimes miss jc because of inputting x during hitlag.

Oops, misunderstood bpm. But on whiff it's shine every 10 frames which you can see by removing the 4 frames of hitlag from the breakdown I did. So it's 3600/10 = 360

 

[SSS]

@ SSS No you are landed on frame 6 (counting 1st shine frame as frame 1) if you shine on the first aerial frame. You technically land frame 5, but because actions are done before movement, jumping frame 5 still causes dj. It's still correct that you need to only wait 2 additional frames when multishining, but that's because you can jump out of shine frame 4 the earliest. And with falco it's definitely possible to jump too fast. I even sometimes miss jc because of inputting x during hitlag.

Oops, misunderstood bpm. But on whiff it's shine every 10 frames which you can see by removing the 4 frames of hitlag from the breakdown I did. So it's 3600/10 = 360

no because you have to wait one more frame after landing before being allowed to jump, so it's 11.

 

[tauKhan]

You land frame 5 as I said, but if you jump on it you dj, so it's 6 for earliest grounded jump. Shine 1 + 4 in the air + 5 in js = 10 frames.

 

[ERayz]

If you do you multishines correctly, you stay grounded, AKA you should be able to grab, WD or whatever out of the second (or any subsequent) shine. Don't worry about frame data, just work on finding the timing.

 

[PCHU]

If you do you multishines correctly, you stay grounded, AKA you should be able to grab, WD or whatever out of the second (or any subsequent) shine. Don't worry about frame data, just work on finding the timing.

Pretty much this; when I started practicing multishining, I never knew the frame data (and still don't really), but I focused on getting a good feel for what I should do and when, and it's worked for me ever since.
It can be beneficial to learn the frame data, but you can't beat out actual practice.

I'd focus on the second shine the most; once you can consistently get whatever option you want from the second shine on block AND on whiff, then it's okay to move on to more shines if you want to.
Focusing on pure multishining tends to throw off your hand positioning and train of thought, and you'll more than likely mess up the inputs because of muscle memory; even to this day, I tend to just jump out after the second shine and react with either a dair if it's a shorthop or a double jump to get myself away from the opponent unless I really focus on wavedashing out of it -- I'm hardly consistent with anything past the second shine, but in general use, I'd say you're doing just fine if you've got consistence with the second.

 

[Stalled]

guys
http://smashboards.com/threads/multishine-an-extensive-guide-updated-8-13-10.214549/