[Question] One does not simply jump

[DrCraig]

Oi, I'm coming back to Melee, getting that childhood nostalgia, but also trying to get better. I've been keeping up with competitive play and using tricks to hopefully whoop my friends.

So, ultimately I need to learn wavedashing, short hopping, etc.
I love Falco play, and he fits my style, but I see a ton of benefit in using techniques like short hopping with him.

Here's the problem
I jump using the Left Stick as opposed to 'x' or 'y.' I'm one of those weird guys.

Should I dedicate time to force myself out of my LS habit? Is it possible to get good with LS, but just much harder?

Which button, x or y, do people predominantly use? (for the sake of using the superior technique, getting the most out of inputs)

 

[pagedMov]

The stick is awful for jumping, just stop doing it. Short hopping is hell with the stick, very unreliable and it could cause you to DI something incorrectly (i.e. you shorthop and fox runs up and up-smashes you while you're holding up). I personally use Y and it's really your best bet, because SHFFL using the buttons is much easier than the stick. It's up to you which button you use, but I use Y because it's closer to B so I can get my lasers out quicker.

 

[Stride]

The stick is awful for jumping, just stop doing it. Short hopping is hell with the stick, very unreliable and it could cause you to DI something incorrectly (i.e. you shorthop and fox runs up and up-smashes you while you're holding up). I personally use X and it's really your best bet, because SHFFL using the buttons is much easier than the stick. It's up to you which button you use, but I use X because it's closer to B so I can get my lasers out quicker.

Y is closer to B. Otherwise everything you said is right.

Another thing that's bad about tap jump is that controlling your initial jump velocity (which is analogue; not just "forwards, backwards, or neutral") and your aerial drift (also analogue) immediately after or before a jump is much harder. Both of those things are also really important.

Almost everyone uses one of the buttons for jumping most of the time, though a few of those people prefer to use tap jump for some specific situations, generally those where they have to use an attack quickly after jumping (e.g. double laser from the ledge with Falco, aerial shine bair with spacies). Some people mainly use tap jump (prominently, Hungrybox does, as well as using Z for aerials, which is also very unusual). I don't know what the statistics are on player preferences for using X or Y (for a while I was under the impression that more people used Y, but lately I've been noticing a pretty large proportion of people saying they prefer X).

Sliding your finger off the edge of the jump button (in one motion) makes it easier to release it quickly, rather than having to press your thumb down and then stop and lift it back up.

 

[Sudoi]

Just give up on the Stick. If you keep at it, you'll either murder your hands, or SD a ton, or mis-input

 

[pagedMov]

Y is closer to B. Otherwise everything you said is right

lol, apparently got the buttons mixed up. Fixed.

 

[Diosama]

I got a buddy who plays Falco who jumps with the stick just fine. In the end, it's a matter of preference, but I would recommend using a button instead. If you download the 20XX hack pack, you can disable tap jump in the debug menu, this'll make you switch to button jumping in a matter of days.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Use whatever feels more natural. I actually use both the buttons and the stick, it depends on the situation. Shorthops and precise jumps I do with Y, but for stuff like jumping to plataforms, I press Up.

 

[-ACE-]

You can't do aerial analog jumps (holding left/right as you dj for added aerial movement) reliably using up to jump.

 

[Nomis4]

Never use the control stick to jump (unless you are jc-upsmashing or something). However, there are a LOT of times where using your control stick to double jump is extremely useful. It's extremely good because you don't have to bring your thumb from the x/y button to the c-stick, you can just flick the c-stick right after you double jump.

 

[EddyBearr]

Learn to use both X and Y to jump. I used to use the control stick to jump -- now I use all three jump inputs variably. It was a great benefit to my game.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You can get pretty far with stick jump alone. However, I would say X/Y offers physical advantages you simply cannot get with control stick. Much of it simply on error reduction for the most part or simply minor stuff. For example, you cannot really tilt shield up and jump out of shield all with the control stick. You would have to tilt it back down, then mash up again which is slower.

Though it is minor, but I believe the greater capacity with X/Y usage instead.

 

[GenNyan]

Use whatever feels more natural. I actually use both the buttons and the stick, it depends on the situation. Shorthops and precise jumps I do with Y, but for stuff like jumping to plataforms, I press Up.

The problem with using the analog stick to jump to platforms is that it will make wavelands more difficult. If you can get past that, its whatever, but know that you are making it harder for yourself.

With falco, I use y for everything except for canceling shine when I'm already in the air, so I can get the instant c-stick aerial.

 

[FamilyTeam]

The problem with using the analog stick to jump to platforms is that it will make wavelands more difficult. If you can get past that, its whatever, but know that you are making it harder for yourself.

Nah, I'm fine, I think.

 

[DrCraig]

I've started putting the Y button to use and it's great for Falco's aerials. I'm not up to speed yet with short hop lasers, but soon I hope to be. I still use the stick to jump in a lot of situations. I can clearly see the benefits to buttons though; I hope to integrate them into my style.

I got a buddy who plays Falco who jumps with the stick just fine. In the end, it's a matter of preference, but I would recommend using a button instead. If you download the 20XX hack pack, you can disable tap jump in the debug menu, this'll make you switch to button jumping in a matter of days.

Gotta find that in the debug

Might I ask, since I'm so accustomed to using the up stick as a jump tool, how you guys up-tilt consistently without jumping? I've jumped with the stick for so long, up tilts are rarely used because I end up jumping. I've almost forgotten how to use them I guess? Is there a trick to consistent up tilts or is this just a noob question?
(I'd rather not learn these with 20XX and not be able to use em in regular play)

Edit: Thanks everybody for the feedback, by the way

 

[GenNyan]

I've started putting the Y button to use and it's great for Falco's aerials. I'm not up to speed yet with short hop lasers, but soon I hope to be. I still use the stick to jump in a lot of situations. I can clearly see the benefits to buttons though; I hope to integrate them into my style.


Gotta find that in the debug

Might I ask, since I'm so accustomed to using the up stick as a jump tool, how you guys up-tilt consistently without jumping? I've jumped with the stick for so long, up tilts are rarely used because I end up jumping. I've almost forgotten how to use them I guess? Is there a trick to consistent up tilts or is this just a noob question?
(I'd rather not learn these with 20XX and not be able to use em in regular play)

Edit: Thanks everybody for the feedback, by the way

There are a few things you can do.

A. Hit the stick upwards slower
B. Only move the stick halfway up
C. Do a quarter circle from left or right to up

IMO A is the best, C is the worst. Just lab it out a lot.

 

[-ACE-]

For utilts I usually try to put the stick to the up position during the previous action so I won't jump. So with Marth (or Falco with dair to utilt), if I wanted to fair then utilt, I'll be moving the stick to up during the fair/L-cancel. That way there's no chance of jumping. You can even ledgedash or wd into immediate utilt this way if you're fast enough to get the stick to up immediately after inputting R.

 

[Comet7]

only putting the stick halfway up sounds like it's inherently faster than the other options and isn't that hard to do (or at least i think so since that's what i do). it's not that hard in comparison to stuff like shield dropping which you should probably learn eventually anyway.

 

[Michelangelo]

New For utilts I usually try to put the stick to the up position during the previous action so I won't jump. So with Marth (or Falco with dair to utilt), if I wanted to fair then utilt, I'll be moving the stick to up during the fair/L-cancel. That way there's no chance of jumping. You can even ledgedash or wd into immediate utilt this way if you're fast enough to get the stick to up immediately after inputting R.

This is something i do too most of the time. Works really wel.