[Question] Dealing with rolling

[AdaptiveTrigger]

So it is no secret that rolling has been tremendously buffed in this game compared to previous iterations. As a result, I'm having a lot of difficulty punishing rolls even when I read them with Link (I can deal with rolling very easily with other characters in the demo).

In Brawl, my favorite method was to use a retreating Fair close to the ground. Not only did this attack cover a lot of space, but the landing recovery was extremely short meaning I could stay safe and throw out a poke if I read incorrectly to punish any approaches afterwards. Now, rolling is so quick that the opponent can just roll into me after the first swipe and still have enough time to block or roll again before the second swipe comes out.

Nair hasn't been too successful since the opponent can typically block after rolling before I can fast fall with it.

My method for punishing rolls with Mario and Mega Man have been to use pivot tilts, pivot smashes, and pivot grabs. This has been working nicely for these characters. Link's tilts and grabs are too slow for this however.

Not a fan of Dsmash since it can leave me open.

Dair is extremely unsafe.

It seems like Link has to stay away from the dodge roll distance of the opponent in order to be effective this time around whereas previously this distance would be safe for me to throw pokes out at.

Any tips would be appreciated.

 

[Jerodak]

From my experiences, Link can actually punish rolls decently, short hop Nair stays out long enough to cover rolling if they roll into you and you can fast fall it without much lag, throwing bombs or boomerangs can punish rolling away and you can also pull a bomb and short hop zair drop. If they roll towards you the bomb will probably blow them up, if they roll away, the Zair might be able to reach far enough to hit them out of it, and if they don't roll you can fast fall the Zair without much lag. If you're spaced properly and have a read, then dsmash back hit is a great roll punish, especially at the ledge since it send them flying at a semispike angle which sets up really well for edge guarding.

Also, if you throw a bomb and they shield, it'll bounce in a way that usually will hit them if you can bait a roll forward afterwards. Also don't underestimate just planting bombs on the ground with short hop zdrop, the fuses are shorter than they were in brawl and they seem to function decently for stage control, however, that will be more useful for shutting down or discouraging rolling instead of punishing it. Oh, and dash attack works well against back rolls if you know they are going to do it, and is a very solid punish, especially if you land the tipper. Hope this helps! I may not be a Link main but he looks really in this game and I'm interested in pocketing him.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

From my experiences, Link can actually punish rolls decently, short hop Nair stays out long enough to cover rolling if they roll into you and you can fast fall it without much lag, throwing bombs or boomerangs can punish rolling away and you can also pull a bomb and short hop zair drop. If they roll towards you the bomb will probably blow them up, if they roll away, the Zair might be able to reach far enough to hit them out of it, and if they don't roll you can fast fall the Zair without much lag. If you're spaced properly and have a read, then dsmash back hit is a great roll punish, especially at the ledge since it send them flying at a semispike angle which sets up really well for edge guarding.

Also, if you throw a bomb and they shield, it'll bounce in a way that usually will hit them if you can bait a roll forward afterwards. Also don't underestimate just planting bombs on the ground with short hop zdrop, the fuses are shorter than they were in brawl and they seem to function decently for stage control, however, that will be more useful for shutting down or discouraging rolling instead of punishing it. Oh, and dash attack works well against back rolls if you know they are going to do it, and is a very solid punish, especially if you land the tipper. Hope this helps! I may not be a Link main but he looks really in this game and I'm interested in pocketing him.

Thanks for the tips. I actually incorporate most of that already. Also I should mention I'm having difficulty with the opponent rolling towards me, and not away from me (that is actually beneficial for a zoning character like Link).

Something I keep needing to remind myself is that the computer is basically cheating by reading inputs and rolls as an appropriate response whenever I press a button. This is probably where most of my issue is coming from at this point. I think a human won't be able to perfectly roll as precise as the computer at level 9 (my brother has the demo, but he doesn't like playing as none of his mains are playable lol).

Working at it some more, I'm finding a lot of success with pivot forward tilt. It doesn't necessarily do a good job of hitting the opponent out of a roll, just does a good job of creating space to work with.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

I'm finding a lot of success with Zair while holding a bomb. Very, very effective.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Having a bomb always helps. You can also try Jabbing and charging D-smash. Do this preferably after they shield Z-air/Bomb and wait a moment to see how they react.

It's also relatively easy to Up-smash people who roll towards you.

 

[Kharon]

try up tilting when they roll at you,
it can hit behind and it comes out quick.

 

[AetherEch0s]

jab, down smash and up b still work great for punish rolls and spot dodges

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Jab, shield grab, boomerang, cooked bombs, etc. Those all work really well against rollers. I tend to roll in opposite direction and jab them, then grab, down throw and punish.