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Question about Tipman spike(reverse uair edgeguard)
- Thread starter Scythe
- Start date
leelue
Smash Lord
The move is perfect, but I didn't play ganon at all in melee.
****ing melee
****ing melee
leelue
Smash Lord
I do my best.
But yeah sorry seriously I have no idea.
But yeah sorry seriously I have no idea.
Shin_Mazinkaiser
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2013
- Messages
- 234
I've never used his Uair in that way, even though I've seen it.
I also never really played Melee, or have seen its frame daata, so I can't exactly compare it.
But like most issues people have with this game, it's probably not the hitboxes, but the character model throwing you off.
I also never really played Melee, or have seen its frame daata, so I can't exactly compare it.
But like most issues people have with this game, it's probably not the hitboxes, but the character model throwing you off.
leelue
Smash Lord
Start
Shin_Mazinkaiser
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2013
- Messages
- 234
Oh believe me, I plan on it.
I've been wondering about this and doing a lot of thinking and watching footage- and I'd have to say that my experience and research (while not definitive) would point to the tipman spike not existing in PM as it did in Melee.
I would point to how in almost every PM video with Ganon in it (that I've seen), even the best Ganons almost never attempt it, and when they do, it doesn't work. This alone would suggest that if it's still possible, it's no longer viable compared to edgegaurding with a bair or what have you.
I wanted to make sure that it wasn't the hitboxes- because I, too have suspected this for some time. So, I found what data I could on the Melee and Brawl hitbox data (none available for PM), took screenshots of the last frame of both hitboxes, and laid one over the other:
(The overlay is Melee Ganon, the underside is Brawl... in case you couldn't tell)
Obviously, I used the size of the actual hitboxes as a scaling reference. It looks like the rest of Ganon doesn't scale properly, but the back leg and torso actually match up quite nicely. I'm too lazy to post a picture of that, though.
This suggests, quite strangely, that if Ganon's uair hitbox goes further down (in relation to the entire Ganon model), then the tipman spike should actually be easier... but it's not.
What I'm thinking now is... maybe the uair hitbox doesn't actually go through the stage (and under the ledge?) I know I've made a lot of assumptions in this thread, like the idea that we can just lay a Melee hitbox over a Brawl hitbox and it'll tell us something about Project M,but I absolutely don't have the time or the ability to explore this question in depth at the moment.
TL:DR, you guys figure it out.
I would point to how in almost every PM video with Ganon in it (that I've seen), even the best Ganons almost never attempt it, and when they do, it doesn't work. This alone would suggest that if it's still possible, it's no longer viable compared to edgegaurding with a bair or what have you.
I wanted to make sure that it wasn't the hitboxes- because I, too have suspected this for some time. So, I found what data I could on the Melee and Brawl hitbox data (none available for PM), took screenshots of the last frame of both hitboxes, and laid one over the other:
(The overlay is Melee Ganon, the underside is Brawl... in case you couldn't tell)
Obviously, I used the size of the actual hitboxes as a scaling reference. It looks like the rest of Ganon doesn't scale properly, but the back leg and torso actually match up quite nicely. I'm too lazy to post a picture of that, though.
This suggests, quite strangely, that if Ganon's uair hitbox goes further down (in relation to the entire Ganon model), then the tipman spike should actually be easier... but it's not.
What I'm thinking now is... maybe the uair hitbox doesn't actually go through the stage (and under the ledge?) I know I've made a lot of assumptions in this thread, like the idea that we can just lay a Melee hitbox over a Brawl hitbox and it'll tell us something about Project M,but I absolutely don't have the time or the ability to explore this question in depth at the moment.
TL:DR, you guys figure it out.
Magus420
Smash Master
The brawl hitboxes aren't relevant to how they are in PM (also that old sword glow method of showing them in brawl is garbage). For demo 2.1 I think it was I remade each of the frames of u-air and b-air until the hitboxes end with the melee animation overlayed ontop, matching up the important parts of the animation and hitboxes as well as I could through it. The original brawl u-air animation had his attacking leg bent slightly and overall less range among other differences. It should be pretty accurate to melee, so when it doesn't seem the same vs stuff it probably has more to do with them.