Queen of the Underworld: Medusa's Secret Hideout

[SEGAGameBoy]

I sure am! Using a computer mouse is probably the only thing I am able to do with my right hand.

Yeah, same here.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Oh boy, I can tell this Echo Fighter debate will be the only thing worth talking about Medusa for a while.

Not that we have other topics to discuss.

 

[Wolfie557]

Hey, maybe it's time to make a comeback à la Medusa! (I'm not taking 25 years though). I'm glad to see that there's still support for our beloved Gorgon-inspired goddess! And thank you a lot WhiteEaglePL for reusing my previous thread, I love the changes as well.

Now, about Medusa's chances for Ultimate... I'll admit that I think it's low. The number of newcomers will be limited this time afterall. This and the already overwhelming content in Smash 4 and probably Ultimate (I'm glad to see that we will get the Reset Bomb Forest in HD!). Kid Icarus also didn't get any new content since Smash 4.

On the other hand, three things can save her: importance, originality and the good old Sakurai bias. Originality is the most important in my opinion. We can see that since Smash 4, especially the DLCs, Sakurai is looking for characters that can bring things new to the table. Ryu, Bayonetta, and most importantly Corrin, that was added despite the "too much Fire Emblem" problem. Inklings and Ridley stay true to this as well, although it's also a matter of popularity. Medusa still have a lot to become a unique fighter in many ways.

Now I hope that Sakurai still love his "role" thing from Brawl's GDC 2008 presentation. I believe that these still exist for the new characters (Ridley being way more monstruous than any other fighter for example), so having Medusa as the female villain is still a plus.

Welcome back! I like how there were rumours/leakd that included medusa but they are most likely fake if not proved fake already.

Would you like to take over again? i dont mind at all and rrly these days I'm not even speculating on here.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Welcome back! I like how there were rumours/leakd that included medusa but they are most likely fake if not proved fake already.

Would you like to take over again? i dont mind at all and rrly these days I'm not even speculating on here.

Well, while I'm really hyped for the new game, I think I'll step back a bit on speculation and all. First of all I'll wait "patiently" for the game to be released so I can play a buffed Zelda.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

hiss 🐍 pic.twitter.com/rScKm5GX8D

— apri 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ (@s0bk_) June 26, 2018

Figured this art would be appreciated here.

Good luck, even if the chances of a KI newcomer this time isn't looking hot.

 

[Gengar84]

You can add me to the supporters list here. While I haven't played a Kid Icarus game, I would absolutely love Medusa to get in just by her design and moveset potential alone. I'm probably one of the few that got hyped when the Bayonetta reveal trailer began, only to be disappointed to learn that it wasn't for Medusa. At the time I didn't know that the trailer was for the Ballot winner and I thought we would get a few more characters as DLC.

 

[Arsh99]

I absolutely love Medusa's design and her character in Uprising. Add me to the supporters list please! Here's hoping we get a new KI game or a port of Uprising for Switch if Medusa doesn't make it into Smash.

 

[Takasmash]

Medusa should be semi echo why her character is different she turn people into stones. The reason why Dr.Mario Young Link and Pichu aren't echoe's because they're characteristic play style are different. Daisy Lucina and Dark Pit are echoe's why they are the same characters.

 

[Wonks]

I'm so on-board with Medusa. There's something so hypnotic about her... Embarrass

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Medusa should be semi echo why her character is different she turn people into stones. The reason why Dr.Mario Young Link and Pichu aren't echoe's because they're characteristic play style are different. Daisy Lucina and Dark Pit are echoe's why they are the same characters.

I think that a fair comparison would be with Lucas, more than "old clones" and echoes. Lucas may have the same basis for his B-Moves, he does have lots of differents properties on them. And the normal moves are all different.

Medusa may have a teleportation (this recovery is maybe too obvious) and projectiles that could be close to auto-reticle, but I don't see her fighting even remotely like Palutena.

 

[Takasmash]

Will I dont know about KIU I just know the characters.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Will I dont know about KIU I just know the characters.

Oh don't worry, that's fine! I do talk about characters or games that I don't know well too, Bandana Waddle Dee for example.

 

[Arsh99]

I think that a fair comparison would be with Lucas, more than "old clones" and echoes. Lucas may have the same basis for his B-Moves, he does have lots of differents properties on them. And the normal moves are all different.

This would be the best case scenario for me. Although, I don't play as Palutena much I do really like how she feels so having her based on other characters with different moves akin to Lucas and Falco would be great.

Do you think they'll be able to animate her hair accordingly? It might be the same as dynamic movement characters have when they don't press buttons for a while or it could be a whole other thing entirely. I wonder if they add her hair to the formula that does cpu calculation and have it be static during 8 player Smash full of Medusas

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

This would be the best case scenario for me. Although, I don't play as Palutena much I do really like how she feels so having her based on other characters with different moves akin to Lucas and Falco would be great.

Well, the true best scenario would be an entirely original moveset. Palutena doesn't really shine on her specials after all.

Do you think they'll be able to animate her hair accordingly? It might be the same as dynamic movement characters have when they don't press buttons for a while or it could be a whole other thing entirely. I wonder if they add her hair to the formula that does cpu calculation and have it be static during 8 player Smash full of Medusas

The snake would have normal animations like everything else. Only the hair should have physics. I guess the physic would be minimal so it doesn't interfer much with the snakes.

 

[GoodShepperd]

Haven't posted on here in forever but I'm all about Medusa getting into the new smash, her design is too good to pass up. I've been thinking about her chances and there are a few things that might work in her favour:

• If being an Echo character increases her chances of being in the game I'd take it, at least her physical appearance is similar to Palutena's so that could potentially help her out. I think the main reason people are saying that she might be an echo character is because they just really want her in the game and they think she has a better chance as an echo character. I would definitely love for her to have her own moveset but I'll take what I can get.
• She would be the only female villain and one of the few female characters (there are only like 12-14 depending on how you count Robin, Corrin, Wii Fit and Inkling)
• Of Nintendo's major franchises (I'm considering 3 games including a recent one to be "major") she is the only viable villain remaining other than K Rool. Fire Emblem and Pokemon don't really have Iconic or recurring villains, F-Zero villains seem unlikely, and so does Giygas from Mother/Earthbound
• She dates back to the NES era and at least in the case of villains Sakurai only seems to choose villains that are recurring and/or date back to the beginning of the franchise and these both apply to Medusa.
• Would be a nod to Kid Icarus fans who are sad there's not gonna be a new kid Icarus any time soon (Sakurai has stated he has no plans to make a sequel to uprising despite it's success). I'm sure he still wants to make the fans of Kid Icarus happy
• Kid Icarus doesn't have that many smash representatives, similarly to Donkey Kong and Metroid, both of which seem likely receive new characters, or already have in the case of metroid with Ridley. Out of nintendo's core franchises, Mario has already received a character (Daisy), Zelda has regained an old character, Starfox has regained an old character, Pokemon has regained three old characters, and Fire Emblem is already oversaturated. Kid Icarus not only has yet to receive anything in ultimate but Darkpit got downgraded to echo or at least he has been recognized as not a full character. All this is to say that Kid Icarus is in a pretty good position to receive a new character so hopefully things work out for Medusa.

Ok I know some of this has been said before on this thread but I'm really excited about the possibility of getting her in the game and I felt the need to blurt out everything I was thinking. We'll all have to send Sakurai Medusa vibes. Please add me to the list of Medusa Supporters

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Haven't posted on here in forever but I'm all about Medusa getting into the new smash, her design is too good to pass up. I've been thinking about her chances and there are a few things that might work in her favour:

• If being an Echo character increases her chances of being in the game I'd take it, at least her physical appearance is similar to Palutena's so that could potentially help her out. I think the main reason people are saying that she might be an echo character is because they just really want her in the game and they think she has a better chance as an echo character. I would definitely love for her to have her own moveset but I'll take what I can get.
• She would be the only female villain and one of the few female characters (there are only like 12-14 depending on how you count Robin, Corrin, Wii Fit and Inkling)
• Of Nintendo's major franchises (I'm considering 3 games including a recent one to be "major") she is the only viable villain remaining other than K Rool. Fire Emblem and Pokemon don't really have Iconic or recurring villains, F-Zero villains seem unlikely, and so does Giygas from Mother/Earthbound
• She dates back to the NES era and at least in the case of villains Sakurai only seems to choose villains that are recurring and/or date back to the beginning of the franchise and these both apply to Medusa.
• Would be a nod to Kid Icarus fans who are sad there's not gonna be a new kid Icarus any time soon (Sakurai has stated he has no plans to make a sequel to uprising despite it's success). I'm sure he still wants to make the fans of Kid Icarus happy
• Kid Icarus doesn't have that many smash representatives, similarly to Donkey Kong and Metroid, both of which seem likely receive new characters, or already have in the case of metroid with Ridley. Out of nintendo's core franchises, Mario has already received a character (Daisy), Zelda has regained an old character, Starfox has regained an old character, Pokemon has regained three old characters, and Fire Emblem is already oversaturated. Kid Icarus not only has yet to receive anything in ultimate but Darkpit got downgraded to echo or at least he has been recognized as not a full character. All this is to say that Kid Icarus is in a pretty good position to receive a new character so hopefully things work out for Medusa.

Ok I know some of this has been said before on this thread but I'm really excited about the possibility of getting her in the game and I felt the need to blurt out everything I was thinking. We'll all have to send Sakurai Medusa vibes. Please add me to the list of Medusa Supporters

If she is going to be an echo, she would still need her own shield since Palutena has one.

Although Ia agree with the rest of your points.

 

[Arsh99]

If she is going to be an echo, she would still need her own shield since Palutena has one.

I didn't even know Palutena's sheild did anything til I searched it up just now. They could give her something like a big gold gauntlet with claws. I really do only think they could do her justice if she was at least a semi-clone. She just has too much potential. I'm still unsure if echoes are just characters that were initially intended to be alt costumes or a way to add more characters to the roster with minimal develop time.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Another question, who would you want to make a new Kid Icarus game if Sakurai won't make a sequel?

I'd be satisfied just getting a Switch port of Uprising that doesn't have the crippling controls.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I have this idea in my head that Medusa could technically be a semi by using the customs Palutena doesn't carry over but then I remember it's not the moveset making that's the limiting factor, it's the balancing. Besides, Palutena's sole remaining neutral B is Heavenly Light which is just the worst fit. (as well as the worst outside of trophy rush) Though with Explosive flame making the jump to side B she could have any number of moves changed to that.

For something to talk about, using Palutena's remaining 7 special moves, make a set for Medusa.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

About the potential of being an echo and Palutena's shield, that's not really a problem. Just remove the block from the Dash Attack and Bair and it's good, the Bair especially becomes a punch like Ganondorf.
There's bigger problems though, especially Uair and the Smash attacks involving wings. I really don't see how to mimick that. And also the fact that Medusa is left handed, although I suppose that the animations can easily be mirrored. I also don't see Palutena's other custom fitting Medusa, Warp and Auto-Reticle especially can work well though.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well Palutena is the Goddess of light and she summons angel wings form nowhere. I'd imagine Medusa would either summon black angel wings or bat wings to fill the same purpose.

 

[Scipion3]

Well Unfortunately, dark wings or bat wings wouldn't fit to Medusa. I guess however Shadow Snakes would be fine for Down and Forward Smash. Her Up Smash could be however be like Palutena's since it includes her staff (like Teleport althought I think it would be a different one) and maybe Counter. I except her to be either a semi-clone or a total original character. If Sakurai choose to inclue a KI newcomer (wich unfortunately has pretty much no chance), she is amongst alongside the top 3 alongside Hades (his personality would make him a wonderful character althought I think he could make a cameo in Palutena's Guidance like the Fan Made Hades Misguidance ) and Viridi (could be an Echo Figher or Semi-Clone of Palutena since we Don't se all of her powers in KIU but more Nature based)

 

[Ed-boy]

Took me a while to come across this thread, but nonetheless, sign me up!
I think it'd be great to have she who turns folks to stone. Plus, people say we need more villains & more girls in the series, so Medusa would kill 2 birds with 1 stone in that department.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well Unfortunately, dark wings or bat wings wouldn't fit to Medusa. I guess however Shadow Snakes would be fine for Down and Forward Smash. Her Up Smash could be however be like Palutena's since it includes her staff (like Teleport althought I think it would be a different one) and maybe Counter. I except her to be either a semi-clone or a total original character. If Sakurai choose to inclue a KI newcomer (wich unfortunately has pretty much no chance), she is amongst alongside the top 3 alongside Hades (his personality would make him a wonderful character althought I think he could make a cameo in Palutena's Guidance like the Fan Made Hades Misguidance ) and Viridi (could be an Echo Figher or Semi-Clone of Palutena since we Don't se all of her powers in KIU but more Nature based)

For Hades, he somehow lack moveset potential, if we take moves from the game. Of course, Sakurai can invent a moveset for his own character. But as a stage hazard? Hades would be perfect as a giant. Launching projectiles, taking the stage and moving it closer to a blastzone, breaking it in two... I think there's a lot of potential as a stage.

Viridi, for Viridi I don't know if she can be Echo. Lucina is shorter than Marth but the difference isn't notable. Here, she would need some more adjustment to the moveset, and we don't know how much an echo can be different (so far, Lucina and Dark Pit share the same frame data for example).

 

[Seanp12]

I can't understand why dark versions of Palutena's powers "wouldn't fit" Medusa. In the lore, she's literally Palutena's dark counterpart (goddess of darkness to Palutena's goddess of light) and her KI:U design is obviously inspired by Palutena's. She doesn't use any of Palutena's (smash move) powers in her boss fights, but, IIRC, neither does Palutena when controlled by the Chaos Kin. Palutena's powers are also used with no variation by Viridi after the two-year jump, who, as I've mentioned before, has even less in common with Palutena than Medusa does, being a nature goddess instead of the goddess of darkness. What exactly is it that makes a pure echo unfitting?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I can't understand why dark versions of Palutena's powers "wouldn't fit" Medusa. In the lore, she's literally Palutena's dark counterpart (goddess of darkness to Palutena's goddess of light) and her KI:U design is obviously inspired by Palutena's. She doesn't use any of Palutena's (smash move) powers in her boss fights, but, IIRC, neither does Palutena when controlled by the Chaos Kin. Palutena's powers are also used with no variation by Viridi after the two-year jump, who, as I've mentioned before, has even less in common with Palutena than Medusa does, being a nature goddess instead of the goddess of darkness. What exactly is it that makes a pure echo unfitting?

It's true that when looking at potential echoes, the matter is not "How is X different from Y?" but more "What do X and Y have in common?" and in Medusa's case, to be honest, there's probably a part of bias. But the most important thing is the theme.
As said, I can see some of the B-Moves working with Medusa. Teleport (she already does in KI), Auto-reticle (even as an "eye projectile") fit perfectly, and counter can work, as much as explosive flame. After all, the powers are granted by the goddesses more than being their very own specific powers.
A bunch of normal attacks can also work with Medusa. The only thing is to mirror the animation (easily doable).

It's mostly F-Smash and D-Smash that don't fit thematically. Medusa may be Palutena's counterpart, but there's never been an angel theme for her. Dark, Bat wings would feel out of place to me.
It's kinda the same debate for Dixie Kong, the main problem with her is Diddy having attacks with his tail.

When I talk about bias, it's also about the potential of the character. It wouldn't be the first case, with Dark Pit and Ganondorf (both being dark characters) but knowing Sakurai, he would probably think of what can Medusa bring on the table. Dark Pit is a special case, being an actual clone of Pit, and being considered first as a costume. This also goes with the "silhouette theory" where similar characters must have similar moveset and hopefully, Medusa can be different from Palutena. She CAN have a different posture, while she can also have a similar posture. Strangely enough, this can determine if she can end up as a semi-clone / echo or not.

Edit: What I mean about posture and silhouette is that Medusa is shown in KI with a posture similar to Palutena in Smash, but there's also the AR Card that show a more interesting, battle-ready pose: https://youtu.be/Hm1kUz_Ia2Y?t=138

 

[DarthEnderX]

If they had to, they could just give Medusa a shield. Not really that big a deal. A cool shield with a Medusa head on it would suit her pretty well.

 

[Scipion3]

Yeah maybe they would redesign her since I Don't see her running with that huge dress of her (Plus we can only see her teleport for Moving.) Maybe she will be redesigned or have a special runnin animation (floating maybe…). But I Don't see her having a shield

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

There's no need to add a shield IMO. The two attacks with the Shield can work as punches.

Spoiler

Just remove the block boxes and add some more power, and it works.

A slight redesign of the bottom of the dress seems needed though. Dreaming me would like to see her having a snake half-body like a Lamia or a Naga hidden behind that dress, and being visible when running but... I don't believe it will happen. At all.

 

[Scipion3]

Maybe that or they could do Something cool with her body and her feet like that contrast with the white skin and her black scaled snake-like skin in her arms. Or maybe it will just a be a shorter dress or she will keep it and run while floating like Palutena or Rosalina

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Maybe that or they could do Something cool with her body and her feet like that contrast with the white skin and her black scaled snake-like skin in her arms. Or maybe it will just a be a shorter dress or she will keep it and run while floating like Palutena or Rosalina

I can see this working.

If her hands are dark and scaly, her feet needs to be the same to be consistent. And I can agree a shorter dress is needed for her to move.

There's no need to add a shield IMO. The two attacks with the Shield can work as punches.

Spoiler

Just remove the block boxes and add some more power, and it works.

A slight redesign of the bottom of the dress seems needed though. Dreaming me would like to see her having a snake half-body like a Lamia or a Naga hidden behind that dress, and being visible when running but... I don't believe it will happen. At all.

Not bad at all. As long as the attacks/hitboxes are similar, he being shieldless works.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Maybe that or they could do Something cool with her body and her feet like that contrast with the white skin and her black scaled snake-like skin in her arms. Or maybe it will just a be a shorter dress or she will keep it and run while floating like Palutena or Rosalina

I can see this working.

If her hands are dark and scaly, her feet needs to be the same to be consistent. And I can agree a shorter dress is needed for her to move.

Dark and scaly feets seems to be the most logical route yes. As you say it's consistent.

Not bad at all. As long as the attacks/hitboxes are similar, he being shieldless works.

Hitboxes can be different (like smaller for Bair). Dark Pit have some differences on Jab and F-Tilt if I recall well, and of course there's Lucina's lack of tipper.

 

[Deleted member]

Honesty, I just don't want to know what kind of panties that Medusa is wearing. That's my main gripe with Palutena.

She could just be formless where her legs are, or utilize the Nordic myth of Hela, where her legs are bones. But, rendering bones is more difficult than legs due to detailing.

 

[Deleted member]

I sure am! Using a computer mouse is probably the only thing I am able to do with my right hand.
Also for the game, I don't recall the difficulty I played though. Probably between mid and hard.

Well, we are all sinister (sinister being the Latin word for "left handed", versus "dexterous"), and the more sinister, the better in Medusa's eyes.

...the fact that Medusa holds her staff with her left hand, versus right for Palutena, also helps belay the ancient belief that left-handedness was evil.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The funny thing, Kid Icarus Uprising's control is a lefty's worst nightmare.

They would need the Circle Pad Pro to play it.

 

[Deleted member]

I've made it well documented I didn't care at all for Uprising as a whole (the excessive "yuk-yuks", for one), but while stuff like the story is objective to taste, the control scheme is a legitimate complaint.

I wish I had something good to update this thread with, but I don't.

Yet...

 

[Scipion3]

Welp we've just had 2 others villains: Dark Samus (echo fighter and surprisingly, she still seems the same as the Prime Games) and King K. Rool

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

An important thing is the emphasis on villains before the K.Rool reveal. Also, the Kid Icarus content is really unknown so far. We haven't really seen the stages (especially the Reset bomb forest) and no Assist Trophies.

I'm slightly hyping myself for Medusa, echo character can look different and I don't mind it now.

We do see Viridi on the stage though

This really mean nothing for her though, as Palkia is on the Spear Pillar stage.

 

[Arsh99]

Did anyone else jump when they saw the Medusa head in the Simon trailer?

 

[GoodShepperd]

Did anyone else jump when they saw the Medusa head in the Simon trailer?

Yea that got me, hopefully it's a hint to a future reveal.

An important thing is the emphasis on villains before the K.Rool reveal. Also, the Kid Icarus content is really unknown so far. We haven't really seen the stages (especially the Reset bomb forest) and no Assist Trophies.

I'm slightly hyping myself for Medusa, echo character can look different and I don't mind it now.

We do see Viridi on the stage though

This really mean nothing for her though, as Palkia is on the Spear Pillar stage.

Yea I'm feeling a little better about her chances I think, Chrom and Dark Samus both look really unique despite being Echos so I imagine they can do Medusa as an Echo that looks good, She's pretty much the only viable villain left at this point