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Project M as its own official game

BBOY15

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
149
Location
Maine
Do you think it's possible for Project M to become its own game that's licensed by Nintendo? This is my idea for how this could/should happen:

----What if the Project M dev team called up NIntendo and said to them: "Let's make a deal. You give us the rights to make and distribute this game (with some supervision from Nintendo staff) and we'll give you 80% of the profits." Nintendo wouldn't have to do much, except collect the profits. It would be for the Wii and distributed to mainstream stores. The official game would be an updated version of Project M's 3.5 (or whatever the latest version is when they make it). This update would make it so people have to buy the game to get the latest version instead of just using the Brawl SD card mod. The official game, like Melee, would not receive any gameplay updates, ever. But this wouldn't be too dangerous because we've already been testing the game for a long time and they would make especially sure that it's balanced. One of the reasons why some Melee players can't get into Project M is because it's always changing. Having the official game never change would add to its charm, make it feel more like a real game, and help Melee players get into it.
Now what would the title of the official game be? I don't think we should stick with "Project M" as that seems like a work in progress instead of a real game. I have a few ideas in mind, such as Super Smash Bros. Melee 2, Super Smash Bros. Elite, and Smash M.
----The problem with just writing the idea up to this point and calling it a day is that the game would mostly only appeal to competitive players. We might want to also appeal to another niche: Casual gamers that have a Wii and aren't interested in getting a Wii U (because most casuals that want a new Smash game would just get the Wii U version if they had a Wii U). Before you say that casuals wouldn't be interested in a game like this, realize that lots of them like Melee for its fast pace even though they aren't interested in advanced techniques. And besides, it's a Smash Bros game; people are going to be interested. Now if we do decide to appeal to casuals, we need to add enough content to the official game that will make it worthwhile to buy if they already own Brawl. Let's put in more items, increased stage creation ability (more parts and less # of parts restriction), more stages, more event matches, give Project M's all-star mode a real interface, et cetera. Since Project M was created to be more like an older game, Melee, we can combine this desire for the old Melee physics with something casuals can relate to: a desire for old game nostalgia. Yes, let's make one of the themes of the official game that it's a throwback game. Add throwbacky content like a Pokemon Blue themed stage, a Melee-esque adventure mode, and a Special Battle option that makes the physics & sounds similar to Smash 64. They could even expand on the "Masterpieces" mode in Brawl. Of course, adding all this content would require the help of Nintendo and HAL Labratory, but Nintendo might actually prefer that they help out so they can tell themselves it's their game and take some pride in it, not just something they let some nerds make. No matter what we add to the game though, the Project M dev team would need to make SURE that they do not let Nintendo lay a finger on the Project M physics. This would have to be one of the Dev team's conditions for working with Nintendo in the initial deal.
----The certainty that competitive gamers would buy the official game because it's an updated version, and the likelyhood that casuals would get it because of extra features Brawl doesn't have, and the fact that it's normal for consoles to have new games long after the next console exists (just look at the PS2), combine to show that the official game if released would be quite successful, especially if it wasn't priced as high as other new games.

There you have it, my idea for how Project M could become its own game! If you don't think my idea will work, then instead of immediately trying to figure out how to nitpick at my post to prove it won't work, please instead suggest your own way for this to happen. Any comments generally relating to the idea of Project M being an official game are welcome.
 

F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
I've thought about this, and realized it's not as easy as it sounds. Even if Nintendo were interested, they would have to renegotiate with the rights for all the Brawl content, because Brawl wasn't made with DLC in mind. This would be especially difficult with Snake, after he was excluded from Smash 4. Nintendo couldn't even negotiate the rights to stream Brawl at MLG, so a rerelease or update of Brawl is unlikely. Even then, the new content in PM would need to be approved by the companies that own them. Every new costume, new animation or move, new stage, or altercation must line up with how these companies want their series portrayed. Say goodbye to the Sonic and Pokemon recolors, or costumes that have nothing to do with the series. A company might object to certain new characters (ex: why Roy instead of an Awakening protagonist?). Finally compensation for all the new content would have to be distributed among the over 100 people who at one time contributed to PM, including everyone who reverse-engineered Brawl to make the tools PMDT used to put thousands of hours of labor into this neverending project.

The good news is that there aren't any serious technical barriers to an official release. The one time Nintendo 'patched' a game on the Wii (Skyward Sword), it was through a channel. The Project M launcher would work as a channel, one that requires an SD card.

Despite all that, Nintendo would never adopt a fan project. The Mother 3 fan translators offered Nintendo to use their work for free, so they could release it on VC, and they did not accept.
 

Mystic-

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
79
Location
The Lab
Some of that I don't agree with (Nintendo in all actuality owns Pokemon/GameFreak) but the final part rings true all the same. Nintendo has a seal of approval that goes on their brands and, despite most of us probably agreeing this is one of the better Smash installments, would never risk tainting it by selling anyone else's work. Nintendo is legendarily stubborn, which can be good sometimes but incredibly frustrating when it comes to things like Smash or Mother 3
 

BBOY15

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
149
Location
Maine
I've thought about this, and realized it's not as easy as it sounds. Even if Nintendo were interested, they would have to renegotiate with the rights for all the Brawl content, because Brawl wasn't made with DLC in mind. This would be especially difficult with Snake, after he was excluded from Smash 4. Nintendo couldn't even negotiate the rights to stream Brawl at MLG, so a rerelease or update of Brawl is unlikely. Even then, the new content in PM would need to be approved by the companies that own them. Every new costume, new animation or move, new stage, or altercation must line up with how these companies want their series portrayed. Say goodbye to the Sonic and Pokemon recolors, or costumes that have nothing to do with the series. A company might object to certain new characters (ex: why Roy instead of an Awakening protagonist?). Finally compensation for all the new content would have to be distributed among the over 100 people who at one time contributed to PM, including everyone who reverse-engineered Brawl to make the tools PMDT used to put thousands of hours of labor into this neverending project.

The good news is that there aren't any serious technical barriers to an official release. The one time Nintendo 'patched' a game on the Wii (Skyward Sword), it was through a channel. The Project M launcher would work as a channel, one that requires an SD card.

Despite all that, Nintendo would never adopt a fan project. The Mother 3 fan translators offered Nintendo to use their work for free, so they could release it on VC, and they did not accept.
If it turned out that Snake and Sonic were the main barriers for making an official game, we COULD get rid of them and replace them with other characters that have the exact same moves. Sure it'd be stupid, but would be worth it (does anybody like playing as Sonic anyways?). Getting rid of the non-Nintendo characters would actually fit in okay with my throwback theme idea (would be slightly weird if there were outsiders in it). But yeah, I know there's way more problems than that. My hope wasn't that an official game would be a sure thing if we asked Nintendo. But my hope was that if we were to approach Nintendo correctly with the question, they'd have a 10% chance of saying yes. Maybe since Smash could make them a lot of money, this could be an exception to their stubbornness? Maybe? :l
 

F. Blue

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
433
Asking Nintendo about Project M in any capacity is not advised. They're more likely to respond with a C&D. They're aware of Project M and its following. If they want to adopt it they'll reach out.
Nintendo in all actuality owns Pokemon/GameFreak
Pokemon is near-evenly divided between Nintendo, Game Freak, and the Pokemon Company.
 
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Rhubarbo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,035
Here's one scenario I can plausibly see happening:

In 2015, Nintendo tries to push Smash 4 as e-sports. Smash 4 has a disgraceful showing at EVO and Nintendo thus needs to save face. To appease skilled/competitive Smash fans, Nintendo hires the part of the PMDT, or maybe a similar grassroots team to develop an "Omega" mod for Smash 4 that readjusts game play to mimic Melee's style.
 

BBOY15

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
149
Location
Maine
Here's one scenario I can plausibly see happening:

In 2015, Nintendo tries to push Smash 4 as e-sports. Smash 4 has a disgraceful showing at EVO and Nintendo thus needs to save face. To appease skilled/competitive Smash fans, Nintendo hires the part of the PMDT, or maybe a similar grassroots team to develop an "Omega" mod for Smash 4 that readjusts game play to mimic Melee's style.
Haha I hope Smash 4 has lame competitive turnouts compared to Melee, a game that was released in 2001 or 2002. Would be hilarious.
 
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RIDLEY is too SMALL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
452
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Nintendo:

-historically has never supported the Smash community, or any competitive gaming community, ever

-forcefully removed Melee from EVO 2013 only days before the event without consideration of the countless Smashers that had already purchased flights, hotels, etc.

-blatantly designed Smash 4 for non-competitive Smashers while ignoring the competitive scene entirely (which is especially obvious when you consider that everything about "For Glory" and Omega Mode is based on negative and inaccurate perceptions of the competitive community that no one would believe unless they literally knew absolutely nothing about competitive Smash)

-has never supported any kind of fan game and has shut down many projects that use their IPs

-has already made it impossible for PM to be at the biggest tournament of the year by sponsoring Apex, thereby harming the PM community's exposure and growth, and exploiting our tournaments in order to advertise their new Smash game

-has an infinitely higher chance of sending out a C&D to the PMDT than supporting PM in any way, let alone partnering with the PMDT for some ridiculous reason

-will never support Project M, and will not support competitive Smash in the long-term


Also, Sakurai clearly hates competitive Smash. I think one of the main reasons why PM is allowed to exist is because, unlike Nintendo of Japan, there are a number of people at NoA that are supportive of the competitive scene instead of antagonistic towards it, and PM is big in the U.S, but not so much in Japan, so NoA just ignores us instead of sending a C&D. I think that the situation that PM is currently in is the best possible scenario for Project M.
 
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turtletank

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
498
Why would they sell a fanmod of an old game to compete with their new game that generates console sales.

Also it would feel incredibly wrong to sell off PM, development has been so slow due to having no official support. Now that the game can stand on it's own, giving reign to Nintendo would somewhat undermine the crazy effort that went into development.

PM is by the community, for the community - and that's how it should stay.
 

BBOY15

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
149
Location
Maine
I wonder why Nintendo hates us so much? Where did all of it come from? Most sane companies would embrace those who care about their games to the extent we do. They seem to have strayed so much from their original purpose. I don't sense as much passion in Nintendo's new games as there use to be. They seem to still care about their ultra-retro history, and their present games, but not us. The stories about them blocking streaming and stuff just makes me mad.
 

nikdur

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
1
What about if the project m development team did a kickstarter for their own game? with all the melee and project m stuff we love, but with their own characters, some meant to play like the current roster, and some completely new? project m has been downloaded 166773 times. If everybody put down just 10 dollars, they'd have over 1.5 mil. Enough money to put a great team of developers to make a great game. That's if everyone put $10. Id be willing to put alot more than that out of appreciation for project m and as support for the game they would make. $10-15 bucks is something I believe we can all afford to pay for an awesome game. after the success of their own game, they'll probably get sponsored by a big company to make more games for them too.
 

IronChar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
362
Location
West side
not a chance in hell.

nintendo does "hate us" but for the reasons ridley listed, its not happening. be happy with what we have.

the legal department reacted very poorly at the time regarding evo 2013- when word got out and after all the money raised for the breast cancer drive, it was very poor decision for the legal dept to do what they did- no doubt they withdrew that decision.
 
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Zujx

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
162
Location
Chicago, IL
I can't even begin to explain to you all the reasons this would never work
Seriously they're are so many factors
-Brand Protection
-Licensing
-Niche Market
-Making a Wii Game while trying to promote the Wii-U
& so many more.

Perfect world situations don't work out in the real world.


I think the best plan is like someone above set a kickstarter should be made for them to make their own game
Though I don't know how much the staff really knows how to create game compared to modding one
 
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Paquito

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
235
So... what would be the challenges of effectively porting Project M into it's own stand-alone game while dropping all the assets Nintendo owns (Characters, maps, music, etc)?

Like, I'd donate, buy, or do whatever else I could to throw money towards the effort. It's not unprecedented. Just look at how Riot games started. Their whole freakin company is based on a single game that's a spin off of a custom Warcraft III map.
 
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MLGF

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,922
I mean, it could be virtual console on the Wii U
But that invalidates one argument with about 100 left.
 
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