Project M 3.5 characters living too long.

[Kuya the Red]

Project M 3.5 is here! Sweet!
So I pop it in and try it out and the first thing i noticed was wavedashing has gotten way more smooth and longer like in melee. Next few thing i notice is the Ganon change and the Link nerfs. The Link nerfs weren't warranted IMO, but I'll save that for another post. No, this post is to bring to light one big problem I've found when playing Project M 3.5.

It takes far too long to take off stocks!
In the previous patch, I could take off stocks at an average percent between 80 and 120. Now it's more like between 120 and 180. This is NOT an exaggeration. I don't know if it's the characters that aren't doing as much knockback as they used to or if the blast zones are much father than before. I think its the blast zones. I Usually play Marth, fox, falco, CF, Link, Gannon, Jiggs, and Mario. In all circumstances I feel like those characters don't kill at the percents they used to. Another bit of evidence is that When i get hit at high percent with these characters, I often say to myself: "wow, how am I still alive?!" This is very concerning to me and I would like to know if I am not alone in this. PMBR, is this what you intended? Because i'm not a fan of most characters living past 160 in battlefield; increasing the length of the match by several minutes. On average, matches last to about 5:30 on the timer, but now it's more 3:50-3:30 on the timer. This is a big change. Can anyone confirm for me if this is true to them as well? Thank you!

 

[Frost | Odds]

You (or your opponents) are doing something wrong. Recoveries were pretty much nerfed across the board.

 

[kaizo13]

you're most likely not be making the best move choices because every one of those characters is capable of killing rather early, even marth who can have trouble killing can finish stocks off in under 10 seconds....so keep practicing i guess

 

[Fortress]

The blast lines are properties of the stages themselves, and weren't altered in the update. You could just be DI'ing much better and/or your opponent is picking a sub-optimal move/spacing to attempt to kill you. Look back on the changelog, and you'll find that nearly everybody's recovery was weakened in some way. Universal changes in the tether mechanics, among others, indirectly weaken the recovery games of many cast members.

Anyway, what's going on for you has nothing to do with any sort of changes brought on with the update. Just practice edgeguarding, and actually take the edge when guarding. You play Marth, use dTilt more.

 

[pershona]

Maybe you just aren't utilizing your kill moves well, not taking enough risks, not edgeguarding well or something else.
The blast lines should be the same for all stages compared to the last version.

 

[Xermo]

This is NOT an exaggeration.

Yes it is.

 

[MLGF]

Maybe you playing characters who lost some of the kills moves ala Diddy... maybe?
I dunno, **** it, I haven't heard this complaint yet. I think it deserves some kind of award because of how hilariously out there it seems.

 

[wiiztec]

Play stamina type 4

 

[Fortress]

You're a buzzy little bee today, @ wiiztec . I haven't ever seen you post twice in the same day.

 

[wiiztec]

Really? I'm sure I've done it a couple times

 

[Fortress]

I just wasn't paying enough attention, I'm sure.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Play stamina type 4

Why would you play type 4 when you could be playing type 3?

 

[wiiztec]

It's regular smash but with a life limit, basically the solution to OP's problem

 

[Kuya the Red]

hmm. well I appreciate the feedback from you guys, but most of your feedback mostly consists of comments that assume that I'm just not edge guarding well enough. That shouldn't even come up in your comments because its not a matter of edge guarding, but a matter of WHEN i edge guard them, they don't pass the blast zones as they would have if this was the previous Project M update. Im not about to say Im the best smash player ever, but Im not new at this. I've been playing for a long time and I am proficient at the game. I know my percents and stages, but if no one else is having the same problem then it could very well be in my head. Maybe myself and my opponents are DI'ing far better. In any case thanks for the comments and if you have anything to say please do so.

 

[Fortress]

If you have been playing proficiently for a long time, then you'd surely notice how much longer characters tended to survive back in 3.0/3.02 when you compare it to 3.5. It's either in your head, or (again) you just need to work on your edgeguarding.

 

[Kuya the Red]

If you have been playing proficiently for a long time, then you'd surely notice how much longer characters tended to survive back in 3.0/3.02 when you compare it to 3.5. It's either in your head, or (again) you just need to work on your edgeguarding.

Characters never lived past 140% most of the time in 3.0/3.02
Most Characters in 3.5 get to numbers past that every match.
I'm not talking about whether or not characters' recoveries have gotten better or not because i know they were nerfed in 3.5; that is not the issue here.
The issue here is that in 3.0/3.02 if I, say, Falcon Punched a Jigglypuff on center of the top platform of dreamland. For that jigglypuff to die without any DI, he would have to be at 18 percent. In 3.5 that same Jigglypuff would have to be at least 25 percent to die without DI.
Now im not complaining about how my falcon cant one shot puffs with a single neutral B as early anymore. My point is that it takes higher percents to KO now. It has nothing to do with edgeguarding, which people keep bringing up as an attempt to insult me.

TL;DR:
to KO characters, you need higher percents than before. It has nothing to do with the player's proficiency in edgeguarding. Im talking about straight up removing stocks from the middle of a stage with a well placed tipper, knee, fox up air, etc.

 

[Fortress]

TL;DR:
to KO characters, you need higher percents than before. It has nothing to do with the player's proficiency in edgeguarding. Im talking about straight up removing stocks from the middle of a stage with a well placed tipper, knee, fox up air, etc.

Some characters had some attacks weakened in strength, but it's not some global change like you seem to think it is. Not every attack was weakened, the stage blast lines weren't altered, the physics weren't changed, or any of the other nonsense threads like this that keep popping up.

Read the changelog for more information.

 

[Ningildo]

Either the DI has gotten better, or you just suck at landing killing moves. Ditto for your friends.

Unless you're playing Oli, who usually kills at that percent nowadays.

If characters living long is an issue, then there's a solution other than stamina mode.

Play Ganon. You and your opponent. #problemsolved

 

[Foo]

Did you accidentally turn the damage ratio down or something?

I'm surprised no one has done this before. Straight from the patch notes, changes to knockback on kill moves for the characters you mentioned.

Marth: Nothing

fox: -Up Smash damage decreased 18 -> 17, BKB 30 -> 26, KBG 112 -> 108. (Kills like 10% later)

falco: Nothing (other than strong dair spike being slightly harder to time)

CF: -Forward Special (Raptor Boost)
--Aerial version BKB decreased from 60 to 50. (Really doubt you are relying on this move to kill on FALCON)

Link: -Forward Aerial damage dropped 15->14, and KBG increased from 100 ->105. (No real change in knockback anyway)
-Forward Tilt BKB changed from 20 on all hits to 5,5,2,2. KBG changed from 93 to 90. Now starts on frame 14 (from 12) and IASAs 37 (from 35).
-Up Tilt BKB changed from 35 to 30. Starts frame 9 (from 8) and IASAs frame 31 (from 30). (First potentially relevant damage change)

Gannon: None

Jiggs: None

Mario: -Down Smash damage decreased on front hit from 18/17 to 16/16. Back hit damage decreased from 15/13 to 12/10.
Throws
-Down Throw KBG increased from 44 to 50. (Harder to kill of dthrow, maybe)

So, basically almost nothing. That combined with the heavily nerfed recovery (unless you are a spacie #spaciebias), there is no reason for character's to live longer. Either people learned to DI, you altered your playstyle or it's all in your head.

Here's where you can find the patch notes BTW http://projectmgame.com/en/ Just scroll down a bit.