probably lucas's ultimate edgeguard

[edde]

well, happened to me twice this week as lucas (hes kind of a secondary char i use, so, im no big **** with him)... when edge guarding, i tend to dash towards the edge and as i reach it i do an hyphen smash (up smash)... now what happened (twice) i dashed, did the upsmash and lucas grabbed the edge but at the same time the hexagonal pik thing (the up smash) was performed... this means, i did an upsmash, reduced its finalizing lag to 0 and did an incredibly fast edgehog considering i did a devastating attack with a great hitbox

it does do damage, i did hit the first one i did and the second one unfortunately wasnt necessary cause my bro barely reached the edge


try this (i play 99% of the time on FD, so, it happened only on FD to me) on FD, dash to the right edge (where happened twice), dash towards it and do an up smash... try experimenting it, if you pull it and record it with luck, please post it so we can analyze whats probably happening or causing this (NOTE: i tried this many times without any kind of success, guess it was luck to just pull it twice in fights)

thanks

 

[ParanoidDrone]

If I wasn't too lazy to get to my Wii, I'd try this now.

*files under "Important if True"*

 

[Fhed]

ic this sounds interesting, ill try it later

 

[Earthbound360]

OMG lagless usmash a dream come true.
I'll try this sometime.

 

[Tyr_03]

*puts down homework*
*runs to Wii*

 

[Falcon...Puuunch!]

It would be a gamebreaking discovery, but alas, I just tried it. All I seem to do is start the smash animation and then fall off.

 

[edde]

tomorrow im going to a friend's, i will do further experimentation on the edge with hyphen smashes, also... i think ive done this with another char than lucas, but i recall doing it twice as him last week

ill try doing it
with intial dash
stutter stepping if possible
with a long dash
all thr previous ways but just the milisecond before leaving the ground

 

[Earthbound360]

It would be a gamebreaking discovery, but alas, I just tried it. All I seem to do is start the smash animation and then fall off.

Well that's a start. Tinker with the timing to see if you can get the hitbox out before you fall.

Does this work with everyone? If it does, maybe trying it with Luigi would be an optimal start since he slides so much.

 

[Fhed]

ive tried it and i have no luck. My guess so far is that u ran and up smash and walked off the ledge and grabbed it.

 

[Levitas]

It's possible to be pushed off while the usmash is going. Did it connect? and/or against who? I've gotten it to do this if I hit someone's shield with this if they're on the stage side and I'm near the edge.

 

[Tyr_03]

Ugh I messed with this for a while and got nothing. I'll spend more time on it today though. Any further information would be good because honestly I see no rationale for why this would happen. Sliding attacks should stop at the edge. So clearly you're doing something odd somehow. From your description you've done it hitting the opponent and not hitting the opponent so it can't be from sliding off of that. We NEED to figure out how to do this. If it's possible off of platforms it will break Lucas.

 

[Mattnumbers]

for testing we should switch the c-stick back to smashes so it can be done easier. This is gonna be awesome if its true! Lucas will probably move up to A rank in about a week.
And I have a question, did you say you DID have the start up lag though? or absolutely no lag?

 

[Earthbound360]

Dangit!

Did you hit someones shield when you did it? It could've pushed you back off the ledge.
And Matt, Im pretty sure he still experienced startup lag.

 

[edde]

i didnt hit somebody's shield... first one was like this, i did the smash, the hitbox was visible, it intercepted fox's upb and with the momentum from the dash/upsmash/slide/whatever happened, lucas ran off edge and hung since the momentum was weak

the second time, my bro was using falco, so, his up+b didnt reach the hitbox, means, the attacked missed, it would have connected if he had a longer recovery that could actually reach where the hitbox/pk thing was, and my hogging invinvcibility frames didnt allow him to steal the edge from me

i didnt hit any shield cause both the times were 1 v 1s and i was edge guarding

EDIT: to matt: i think i had no startup lag, i didnt pay close attention, while lucas was sliding, he was in the startup lag animation, but this animation was interrupted by the edge, then, just before lucas hung from the edge the pk hitbos hexagon thing unleashed as if i performed an upsmash on the very edge

 

[Earthbound360]

Urgh... me and Tyr were testing this attempting many ways to recreate it. We tried hyphen smashing, reverse hyphen smashing, wlking into a usmash, using Luigi (for his low traction), using Icy floors, everything. No success...

@$*&)#*%&(#%)!

 

[Tyr_03]

Ugh. Are you really sure this happened? I'm running out of things to try. If anyone ever makes this happen again we definetly need a video. If it actually works it'll be the biggest Lucas developement yet. But I freaking cannot figure out how you did it. bleh back to testing.

Okay answer these questions if you can. I think they might help us a lot to recreate or debunk this.
1. Were you holding a direction while the up smash was going?
2. Did you take any damage?
3. What buttons did you use to Up smash?
4. What angle were Fox and Falco recovering from?
5. What is your controller set up?

 

[GofG]

I will believe this after I see a respected Lucas say that they have replicated it, replicate it myself, or see a video of it. Not until then.

 

[edde]

1. Were you holding a direction while the up smash was going?

dont remember, probably not

2. Did you take any damage?

not at all

3. What buttons did you use to Up smash?

used the c-stick, possibly charged with z

4. What angle were Fox and Falco recovering from?

fox did a 45 degreeish fire fox that was hit by the thing

falco was about 70% down... very diagonal, very down, his up+b would have never made it

5. What is your controller set up?

tap jump off regular controller (NOTE: there is a possibility i was using my TL setup which uses R as jump)


ive also pretty much tried about everything... spet about 40 minutes trying smash boosting (which was like impossible), tried pivoting it, tried it out of both initial dash and continued dash, tried doing some sort of stutter step, tried regular hyphen smashes a lof times, both near the end of the edge and a bit away

will try impulsing lucas's with mario's fludd at lowest charge to learn more about the mechanics of this thing

 

[Tyr_03]

Well I mean I know exactly what it should look like. Go on Melee Yoshi's Island and use Upsmash in the right place on the yellow blocks and you should get the hitbox of the move to come out and get no lag because the move gets cancelled by the block breaking beneath you. But that's a whole different thing. I can't get Lucas to slide off the edge at all during an upsmash. It doesn't really make any sense that he should be able to. We've never seen anything like it. A moves don't let you slide off edges like B moves do. I'm completely perplexed.

 

[ForteX]

I tried this and got no results at all, I wasn't even able to get off the stage. He just stuck there at the side, finished the animation and did the "zomg i'm about to fall" thing. I only tried doing it with a normal dash, up smash, or c-smash. Nothing else. I don't really know what would make it work though...

 

[Tyr_03]

There was a thread on the tactics board about this (someone did it with Snake.) Apparantly you can do dash attacks or running up smashes off the edge like this if you were just hit before you do it. SamaraiPanda says he can replicate it consistently. I don't really understand how this works with the OP description though so who knows. Anyhow that might be an idea for how it happened.

 

[ForteX]

Doesn't make much sense that you could get hit as Lucas when your opponents are off the stage already, though. Could it maybe be possible to pull a non B-sticked shorthop wavebounce to the edge of the stage and C-stick the up smash? I imagine it would work kind of like a wavedash would... but I don't know if it's possible with the lag from the PK Fire.

EDIT: I can't get it to work, even with the B-Sticked PK Fire into usmash. It either comes out as an up tilt, or the same stick to the edge result is achieved. The lag from the PK Fire landing is an issue, but it's not that serious. The point still stands, you can't slide off the edge.

 

[KonoK]

Hmm, did you do anything before the Upsmash(other than the dash)? If you did, this situation could be like Mario's wavedodge thing.

 

[Cardd]

My secondary main is lucas, and being very excited by this post, have tried for 2 hours, all manner of things to try to do this for hours, since it would be amazing, with no avail when it did happen to my by accident by playing my brothers. But, it was on the castle siege stage when it transformed from inside the castle to the lava, i was charging and sliding, and realeased at the right time to activate it, and i grabbed the edge. If i had wanted to, a could had jumped up to meet the sparks.

I think it was all luck though but you can do it and grab the edge immediatly in that circumstance, if that helps.

 

[Brinzy]

Yeah, the best I could do was immediately grab the edge afterwards. This feels too good to be true. Not that I 100% disbelieve you, but I can't see something like that actually being feasible.

 

[Powda]

Tyr said it, I was gonna say I've had this done against Tl when I was hit during an attack. He was hanging off the edge and did a drop down jump attack back to stage while I was doing a slide Usmash, I got hit by his attack as well as he mine but I continued to slide and grabbed the side.

Is there anyway you were hit by foxes Uspecial?

Edit - Correction He did FF jump Dair which we assumed at the time spiked me right into the edge grab. Still getting hit during the Usmash is a possibility, but he claimes falco never touched him.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

bye-bye falcon!

 

[Blackbelt]

Ah man, I hope this can work.....I really do.