Princess of Destiny - Three Expert Opinions On Smash 4 Zelda

Unfortunately for Zelda fans the Princess of Hyrule has not often found herself in a strong place within Smash. Ranked 19th in the most recent Melee tier list here on Smashboards and ranked second to last in the most recent list from Brawl, Zelda has not exactly been overwhelming in previous mainstream Smash titles. So how does she fare in Smash 4? We brought in three Zelda experts to weigh in on the character.

• Zylach: Ranked 7th in Wisconsin using Zelda almost exclusively in Smash 4. Top ten placements in Madison and Milwaukee tournaments with 1st place in The Construct 27.
• MaXy: Best Zelda in Ireland having notable wins over Skarfelt. Taken 1st in doubles with Zelda at Breaking Boundaries.
• |ven|: Zelda main since Brawl having beat Z, RichBrown, Vato_Break and more. Currently ranked 5th in the Las Vegas Smash 4 power rankings using only Zelda.

So how do these three experts feel about Zelda in Smash 4? Let's dig in and find out!

Advantages​

When it comes to what makes Zelda great in Smash 4 the experts brought up some good points.. "Her punish game is really good if you know how to space." MaXy told us. "Her combo game is actually rather decent & can definitely be pushed much harder." Zylach also agreed on her combo strength. "Her combo game is actually fairly good in this iteration of Smash." he said. She can get upwards of 30% on an opponent from a dthrow - nair - lightning kick from 0%. One of her standard combos, dtilt - jab - dash attack is a guaranteed 23% at mid percents provided the Zelda player sweetspots the dash attack."

"Zelda has many kill options." |ven| said and it seems Zylach was also inclined to agree. "Her biggest strength is her kill potential." said Zylach. "With rage, she can kill some characters with an elevator combo at 30%. Her dair offstage is one of the most lethal meteor smashes in the game and even the sourspot can kill certain characters meaning she can get kills when the opponent is at 0%. A ledge trump to bair can kill someone at 30% and is guaranteed on a few characters."

Zylach also mentioned the strengths of her recovery. "Farore's Wind covers a very long distance and she's intangible for the majority of the move. It also carries her momentum so using it right after a second jump means she can recover from just about anywhere meaning in order to kill her you need to send her to the blast zone."

Disadvantages​

Zelda is not without her flaws however. "I think she is a great character," |ven| told us. "But she just has 1 or 2 problems that really bring her down. Those problems being landing lag and ending lag. With such a light character like Zelda, the fact that any move she does leaves her open for more than 3 seconds really is a problem."

Zylach also agreed that speed is one of her biggest issues. "She has poor frame data: Her fastest move is dtilt at frame 5. She has poor movement: she is bottom ten in the game for run speed and Farore's Wind has too much lag on it to be a useful movement option unless it's ledge cancelled." Even MaXy mentioned her "mediocre speed and frame data".

Unfortunately these aren't the only weaknesses she has. Besides "lacking neutral game in a game that's very neutral heavy" as MaXy put it Zylach had a lot more to add in. "A thing that comes to mind is the fact that proper DI by her opponent can ruin a lot of her combos and kill options. Properly DI'ing dthrow makes it very difficult for Zelda to follow up on it and that's her main combo throw. Properly DI'ing Farore's Wind ribbon when she goes for her elevator combo can get the opponent out of the lethal reappear hitbox."

Relevant Matchups​

Among the most commonly seen 'top tiers' at events all of the experts agreed that in an ironic twist Sheik was her worst matchup. "Needles give Zelda a rough time because they cover her landings so well & make it hard for Zelda to get in due to the knockback." MaXy explained. "She's also difficult to edgeguard and to punish due to her recovery and frame data respectively." Fortunately this doesn't mean the matchups is hopeless in his opinion either. "She is combo food if she slips. Her throw shenanigans at kill percents don't work too well against Zelda from my experience."

|ven| mentioned Pikachu as a potential problem alongside Sheik "I feel like her worst match ups in the top tiers are Sheik and Pikachu. Both are very speed based characters and Zelda sadly lacks in speed so it's hard to keep up with them."

Still they all felt that various top tier matchups could be handled. Both Zylach and MaXy mentioned the Luigi matchup as a one of her better matchups. "It's not a positive matchup in the slightest for her" Zylach was sure to make clear. "But Luigi's fairly low movement speed and friction allows Zelda to keep him out a little easier. She doesn't have to worry about getting projectile camped quite so hard and Luigi doesn't have a reflector to nullify her only spacing option, phantom. That said, though, Luigi juggles her forever and can be difficult to punish because of his superior frame data."

MaXy also mentioned Ness as a potentially decent matchup. "Out-footsie him on the ground, avoid staying in the air at low percents, and be wary of PKT2 when edgeguarding." he suggested.

Is Zelda Viable?​

All three of them had varying levels of optimism and skepticism on her viability on the national level. "I don't think Zelda is viable at a national level unless the player is ridiculously skilled and completely invested in the character." Zylach confessed. "One of the reasons for this is because her matchups with the high tiers, who are the most popular choices at the national level, are her worst matchups for the most part so she has to deal with uphill struggles almost every single game at a national tournament."

MaXy had a slightly more optimistic look at the future with the potential for patches but still expressed doubts. "We would need to see after all the patches have been done and a few years down the road. Though if Sheik remains as dominant and as popular as she is now it's gonna be a rough time. She can definitely win against any character in the game though including Sheik."

|ven| has a much more positive outlook. "I think Zelda is VERY viable on a national level." |ven| told us. "She's not a character that you can pick up and naturally be good with her. You need to put a lot of time and effort into her in order to make her viable. Most people in my opinion think she's not viable because they're not willing to put in the effort and time that she needs. Also because the people who DO use her aren't optimistic about her. I'm going to Genesis 3 this January and I'm hoping to change some people's opinions on her."

Advice For Zelda Mains?​

Zylach suggests that patience is key "Zelda's approach options are mediocre while her out-of-shield options are some of the best in the game. Play defensively, learn your opponent's patterns, strengths, and weaknesses. Exploit their weaknesses every opportunity you get because at a high skill level you won't get that many opportunities."

Zylach along with MaXy both agreed that a proper knowledge of spacing and fundamentals would be vital to success with the character. "Lucien does a fantastic explanation of spacing here." MaXy mentioned. "JuiceBox_FGC did a video on footsies where you'll see how the two ideas of spacing and neutral are very much related to one another."

|ven| shared his own thoughts. "Be ready to commit a lot of time and effort into this character. Don't expect to do well with her overnight. Don't let the other Zelda mains bring you down for bashing on their own character. Mind your own business, you do you, and show them that she is a viable character. Same goes for everyone else that gives you crap for maining a perceived to be low tier. You're going to want to drop her and pick up someone else many times, but if you get over those thoughts, you will come out with great success."

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A special thanks to |ven|, MaXy, and Zylach for their help with this article. With so much valuable Zelda information not everything was able to fit within a single article. To learn more about Zelda and see the full interviews with these three players be sure to check out the Zelda forums here on Smashboards by following this link.

Agree or disagree with these Zelda experts? Sound off in the comments below and stay tuned to Smashboards for future expert analysis on characters from all Smash titles!

 

Jigglypuff barely has the tools to be even decent. Good aerial game is all she has. She dies at 70%, generally bad ground game, terrible grab game, no good options on shield.

What kill setups does she have? Atleast Falco uthrow -> uair. Where's this laggy aerials stuff coming from though? Jigglypuff has some the lowest landing and aerial lag in the game, being even better than Sheik's. Nair and Pound are not very good combo or zone breaking moves due to their startup.

Falco may not have Jigglypuff's recovery, but his frame data is still fantastic, he has actually good smashes and throws, a real kill setup, a way to deal with projectiles while also having one himself, two spikes, and an option on shield. While he still has issues, such as fairly low survivability and is still combo food, his pros outweigh his cons, unlike Jigglypuff.

She can dair to rest and jab reset to rest at percents where rest kills, but both are difficult to put in competitive play.
Falco's up throw to up air can only kill on battlefields top platform and no where else. It stops comboing at like 40%. Falco's frame data is good, but not amazing. I mean, nice jab there. Bet it combos sometimes. And bair is cool too, with it's not having any real range. (Outranged by jiggs back air lol)

His cons outweigh his pros by a significant margin, and he has perhaps the worst tournament rep since he has terrible neutral, gets combo'd hard, and has an easily interruptable recovery.

Also, Jiggs has some of the best mobility in the game, where Falco has some of the worst

 

Great read.
Most of these comments are disgusting though.
To have the train of thought to write off Zelda like most of you do is the same reason most of you aren't national threats by any stretch. You give up and don't push yourselves. You whine and reach for excuses. Especially in one of the most balanced Smash games to date where I honestly don't see a bad character in it. And where being low tier is actually misleading because it isn't that much further away from high tier.

 

Jigglypuff can shine a lot better than Falco, you've just gotta wait for the right player (when Serynder first showed up he was doing crazy ****, like forcing an airdodge with up throw up air and resting).

She has the tools needed to succeed; good frame data in her jab, tilts, solid smashes and a strong aerial game combined with the greatest airspeed and floatiness (fearless balloon pirates will take every opportunity to rip up recoveries.) She has above-average damage output and some kill setups, but they're very awkward which is why I emphasise "waiting for the right player". Everyone slept on Peach and then EOE's like "no please don't" and now she's candidate for A/top tier.

Her mobility is heads and shoulders above characters like Falco, and since she has a combo breaker and a zone breaker in nair/Pound; she's hardly combo food. I feel that she's lacking because of the ridiculous amount of lag her aerials have, as well as being really easy to kill, but her strengths are on the level of or just about help her stride over her weaknesses. Falco is slow combo food with a mediocre recovery, meh frame data, moves that make no sense and a situationally/near useless projectile. While his aerials are actually quite good, only his bair and up air autocancel. His jump height might be amazing, but his airspeed is just terrible.
By and large, he is just a much worse fox.

Still not "objectively worst", not even close.

I have watched reasonably good Puff players and played one (in a recent set, the dude managed to set up about 5 rests in our set and still lost 2-1). The character is not threatening at all if you take care of your shield, and shield is already a very strong option (I won by just shielding more after dropping ga me 1 respecting Puff's answers to shield too much). But with all her "great tools" you listed (and I disagree with that, but I'll ignore that for now) , she still has no answer to shield, which is already a good option in Smash 4.

I never thought Peach would be anything less than mid high tier, although that is beside the point (her Brawl issues were MK, Snake, and to lesser extents Marth and Falco, and they've all been removed, one way or another).

Pound is neither a combo breaker nor a zone breaker unless you are going for things that don'the even come close to combos, and it is horrendously unsafe on shield (begging to eat a usmash from most of the cast on the front of your shield, and a bair otherwise). She is thus, for all her mobility, unable to effectively hit someone or set up into rest (if you are getting good rested from uthrow, you just have no idea of when you should actually be airdodging... that's not a mixup as much as the opponent just being bad), which means she is relegated to scrapping together enough (unsafe) hits on shield to make shield an undesirable option because of pound, but if the opponent understands how to counterattack out of shield correctly, she can't really keepisode any semblance of pressure on, making this scenario very unlikely.

Falco, on the other hand, has an effective grab game and the fall speed to at least make holding shield while airborne less safe for the opponent, never mind that his dtilt seems safe on shield (I need numbers for this, but from experience punishing Puff I know hers are not). He thus has an actual answer to shield (two of them in fact) that is threatening for combo potential as well (as both grab and dtilt set up followups). His frame data is not fantastic, but he has great numbers in some important areas (dtilt, bair, uair, walk speed), and his much greater vertical acceleration lets him chase andon't apply pressure better than his runspeed lets on. Saying his moves "make no sense" is also purely subjective and part of the disconnect here (I think his move set makes a lot of sense and that he is quite fun to play, if worse than my other characters.) His grab and dtilt give him potent followups, even at mid percents, which Jigglypuff lacks. Jigglypuff partially compensates with aerials that do decent damage, but her ability to string hits is lacking compared to the whole cast and also compared just to Falco.

He is in many ways a worse Fox, yes, but one critical advantage he has is a legitimate offstage presence (Fox can go for two-frame ledge punish with dsmash or attempt rather risky aerial setups, but he is by and large often relegated to standing onstage and applying ledge pressure, something Falco usn't limited to). Falco can also net early offstage kills multiple moves in his move set (potent dair, bair, fair, and even side+b shenanigans), while Puff can try to wall people offstage, but Falco can adjust himself vertically much easier than Puff can, so he is usually better at covering high-low mixups.

He may not be supremely fast, but he still has a lot of good tools and a real answer to shields with followups, which Puff does not, and that's why I think Falco is better.

 

Zelda is always disregarded because she is low tier, but people fail to realize that this is the most balanced iteration of Smash. This version of Smash arguably has the best iteration of Zelda too. The problem is her purpose. She has many tricks up her sleeve, but suffers from being all power and no combo. She is a punisher, meaning she relies on being defensive to deal some damage while relying on solid reads/punishes to secure a kill.

That's all well and good, but a key component is missing. SPEED. She lacks movement speed and decent frame data, meaning she must play footsies and can't throw anything out first without really thinking it through. She relies on being just outside the opponent's reach, which would be easy if she were faster on the ground or midair. But she's slow. With slow frame data to match. A single mistake is a grave mistake unless your opponent is too afraid to approach/too ignorant to know how punishable Zelda actually is. In short, Zelda is a punisher but needs to be super close to the opponent to actually have enough time to punish (not counting a super read of UpB->DEATH FROM AFAAAAAAAAAR).

Also, Zelda is totally unique playstyle wise. I kinda wanna be defensive but I kinda wanna approach and I kinda wanna trap to combo but I kinda wanna 1-sweetspot-bash but I kinda wanna harass/bait but I kinda wanna push you away but I kinda wanna annoy you from the ledge but I kinda wanna mess with you off stage. She's an aspiring woman with many pursuits and all sass. U just jelly u cnt b her, m8s.

I personally think people just outright call her garbage because they are salty she killed their character at least once. Did you know that 95% of her kill options ALSO go through TV screens IRL to harass players? Totally true. Like. Dair into USmash means the player IRL gets a boot to the forehead and then B-slapped 3 times with glittery magical jazz hands. Then they're left there to cry salty tears. Pls stop the elegant sass-buse. BAN ZELDA BEFORE SHE VIOLATES MORE PPL OMG!!!

 

Still not "objectively worst", not even close.

I have watched reasonably good Puff players and played one (in a recent set, the dude managed to set up about 5 rests in our set and still lost 2-1). The character is not threatening at all if you take care of your shield, and shield is already a very strong option (I won by just shielding more after dropping ga me 1 respecting Puff's answers to shield too much). But with all her "great tools" you listed (and I disagree with that, but I'll ignore that for now) , she still has no answer to shield, which is already a good option in Smash 4.

I never thought Peach would be anything less than mid high tier, although that is beside the point (her Brawl issues were MK, Snake, and to lesser extents Marth and Falco, and they've all been removed, one way or another).

Pound is neither a combo breaker nor a zone breaker unless you are going for things that don'the even come close to combos, and it is horrendously unsafe on shield (begging to eat a usmash from most of the cast on the front of your shield, and a bair otherwise). She is thus, for all her mobility, unable to effectively hit someone or set up into rest (if you are getting good rested from uthrow, you just have no idea of when you should actually be airdodging... that's not a mixup as much as the opponent just being bad), which means she is relegated to scrapping together enough (unsafe) hits on shield to make shield an undesirable option because of pound, but if the opponent understands how to counterattack out of shield correctly, she can't really keepisode any semblance of pressure on, making this scenario very unlikely.

Falco, on the other hand, has an effective grab game and the fall speed to at least make holding shield while airborne less safe for the opponent, never mind that his dtilt seems safe on shield (I need numbers for this, but from experience punishing Puff I know hers are not). He thus has an actual answer to shield (two of them in fact) that is threatening for combo potential as well (as both grab and dtilt set up followups). His frame data is not fantastic, but he has great numbers in some important areas (dtilt, bair, uair, walk speed), and his much greater vertical acceleration lets him chase andon't apply pressure better than his runspeed lets on. Saying his moves "make no sense" is also purely subjective and part of the disconnect here (I think his move set makes a lot of sense and that he is quite fun to play, if worse than my other characters.) His grab and dtilt give him potent followups, even at mid percents, which Jigglypuff lacks. Jigglypuff partially compensates with aerials that do decent damage, but her ability to string hits is lacking compared to the whole cast and also compared just to Falco.

He is in many ways a worse Fox, yes, but one critical advantage he has is a legitimate offstage presence (Fox can go for two-frame ledge punish with dsmash or attempt rather risky aerial setups, but he is by and large often relegated to standing onstage and applying ledge pressure, something Falco usn't limited to). Falco can also net early offstage kills multiple moves in his move set (potent dair, bair, fair, and even side+b shenanigans), while Puff can try to wall people offstage, but Falco can adjust himself vertically much easier than Puff can, so he is usually better at covering high-low mixups.

He may not be supremely fast, but he still has a lot of good tools and a real answer to shields with followups, which Puff does not, and that's why I think Falco is better.

Because of 1.1.1, bair is safe on shield.

Try it.

What's falco's safe on shield options? Bair and side B? I'm sorry if it seems like I'm trashing Falco, I actually do like his smashes, edgeguarding and damage racking game.

Like, his frame data was always great, but those nerfs from Brawl tho. I get that with dair and autocancel laser he'd be the best, but with just a safe on shield dair he would have been fine. The fact that Sakurai made them both near useless means that he has to rely on his good frame data alone to make up for his amazing weaknesses, and that is just bad character design.

He's so incomplete; he's got so many problems and just a few good things but they don't actually address any of his problems. I dropped him post 1.0.6 (and Samus), he's just not worth the effort.

 

Great read.
Most of these comments are disgusting though.
To have the train of thought to write off Zelda like most of you do is the same reason most of you aren't national threats by any stretch. You give up and don't push yourselves. You whine and reach for excuses. Especially in one of the most balanced Smash games to date where I honestly don't see a bad character in it. And where being low tier is actually misleading because it isn't that much further away from high tier.

Oh get off your high horse. I'm allowed to complain when the character I love has been mediocre for 3 games in a row since none of the game designers seem to be aware of her crippling weaknesses.

Skill takes you far, but when you pit two people of equal skill against each other, it's naive to think that the abilities of the character itself don't have a huge impact on the outcome of the match. Zelda will simply never be a major threat at high/top level play. Yes, there are certain players who are very skilled and could probably do relatively well with her at the moment thanks to the general lack of knowledge of the matchup, but as soon as people learn how to fight her, she is back to being at the bottom of the barrel.