Pretty good at the game, suck with Fox, any tips?

[MG_3989]

So I’d consider myself well above average at Smash especially with my main Ness and my secondary Lucina. I do well with them and I don’t lose often. I’ve always really wanted to pick up Fox though because he’s such a cool character. For some reason I can’t get the hang of him, even after a couple hours playing him. Now usually if I couldn’t get the hang of a character like this I’d just not play them but I’m determined to learn Fox. I think learning him will make me better at the game in general and increase my diversity. Any tips that helped you guys learn Fox? Any beginner videos or things I should know? I’ve seen pros play Fox and I mostly get what he does but I just can’t get the hang of it. Any help would be appreciated

 

[Rhus]

I'll echo what I said in another thread here.

Watching pros is definitely very helpful. Here are some other useful tidbits:

• Fox's neutral and advantage are very dominant, but his disadvantage is very poor. Resetting to neutral is often much better than risking getting hit into disadvantage
  • To add onto this - Fox's speed enables an in-out gameplay of zipping in, getting a couple hits, and resetting. Don't be afraid of playing patiently and carefully. You are one of the lightest characters with a predictable recovery and gets combo'd easily so best not to risk your neck
• Fox can only be optimized by being as fast as possible. When practicing him, practice moving around the stage, auto cancelling your Uairs and full hop Dairs, reverse Utilts out of a dash etc.
• Practice your follow ups from your tilts and aerials, and be aware that Fox's speed enables bonkers tech chasing and vortexes. Use his dash, walk, jump, and fall speed all to their fullest when comboing and chasing your opponent.
• Throws are useful, but only because they open up Fox's advantage. You have no combos from throws at all, so use the throw that will put them in the worst position in that situation (except maybe Bthrow...it's almost always bad)
• Fsmash is pretty strong as a kill move. You can't combo into it, but you can read rolls with it and catch landings with it. You can do it out of a dash as well of course, it's an important option to keep in mind
• Generally, pursuing off stage is a no go - Fox falls like a rock and has a mediocre recovery so you have to be safe.
  • You can pursue off stage if your opponent is out of options or you are confident with intercepting their recovery. His best off stage tools are his shine, Nair, and Bair. If you can force someone to grab the ledge twice when getting back, your Dsmash sends at such a vicious angle that they just aren't coming back
  • In lieu of off stage, Fox's get up coverage is fantastic. Practice covering all the ledge get up options and keep your opponent in disadvantage for as long as possible.
• Combo wise, Dtilt has been completely changed to be a hugely useful combo tool, and Nair is very safe and combos into a lot of your ground attacks at early percents and Usmash at killing percent
• Finally, you almost never have to approach. Fox's lasers and reflector make him nigh impossible to camp for zoners and it's important to force approaches on characters that might be worse at approaching to force them into a bad situation

These are just some general tips for Fox - he's a pretty difficult character but stick with him. He's tons of fun.

Larry's guide he recently released is pretty good as well:

I cannot stress enough to new Fox players that while Fox is kind of a rushdown character, you still have to be patient and careful. Fox gets absolutely mauled in disadvantage state so you have to do your best to maintain neutral or better yet, your advantage. Fox has a very "optimized" playstyle in that he scales very well with practice and clean execution, so practicing his movement and combos is very important.

 

[MG_3989]

I'll echo what I said in another thread here.



Larry's guide he recently released is pretty good as well:

I cannot stress enough to new Fox players that while Fox is kind of a rushdown character, you still have to be patient and careful. Fox gets absolutely mauled in disadvantage state so you have to do your best to maintain neutral or better yet, your advantage. Fox has a very "optimized" playstyle in that he scales very well with practice and clean execution, so practicing his movement and combos is very important.

Thanks for all the info. Fox is just a completely different style of character to my other mains and secondaries so I guess that’s what’s giving me trouble. So basically always reset neutral when possible and wait for your opportunity to get into an advantage state?

 

[Rhus]

Thanks for all the info. Fox is just a completely different style of character to my other mains and secondaries so I guess that’s what’s giving me trouble. So basically always reset neutral when possible and wait for your opportunity to get into an advantage state?

I get that - for most of smash's history I mained Fox and seconded Ness because I love Earthbound too much. Ness and Fox have always been very different characters.

Fox's disadvantage state is bad enough that overextending is really one of the worst things a Fox can do. Keep your advantage going for as long as you can, but don't take big risks with him until you are more comfortable playing him. If you are unsure on a follow up or option, it might be best to reset to neutral as Fox's neutral can outdo most characters quite well.

 

[MG_3989]

I get that - for most of smash's history I mained Fox and seconded Ness because I love Earthbound too much. Ness and Fox have always been very different characters.

Fox's disadvantage state is bad enough that overextending is really one of the worst things a Fox can do. Keep your advantage going for as long as you can, but don't take big risks with him until you are more comfortable playing him. If you are unsure on a follow up or option, it might be best to reset to neutral as Fox's neutral can outdo most characters quite well.

Awesome thanks for the advice. The fall speed difference really threw me off at first but I’m getting used to it. I guess I just have to play really patiently and win neutral and throw out as many strings as I feel comfortable doing then backing off. I’m sure once I get used to the character I’ll learn when it’s safe to extend advantage further and go for more damage and when to pull back much better. Thanks for all the help!

 

[MG_3989]

Now that I think about it Fox and Ness are actually similar characters who just play completely differently. They’re both patient aggro rushdown characters with great advantage and neutral and terrible disadvantage and neither of them can overextend. Obviously the play completely differently but with a similar goal. Maybe that’s why I’m drawn to Fox

 

[Sonic94]

That explains my troubles with him. I tend to play agressive and I like to pursue people off stage. I guess having Metaknight and Sonic for first mains does that to you.

 

[MG_3989]

That explains my troubles with him. I tend to play agressive and I like to pursue people off stage. I guess having Metaknight and Sonic for first mains does that to you.

I’m starting to get a little better with him and he’s more of a juggler guerilla type character that weaves in and out like everybody advised me. You can still be aggressive with him just not really offstage. His aggression seems more vertical than horizontal to me

 

[MapleBeasts]

I’m starting to get a little better with him and he’s more of a juggler guerilla type character that weaves in and out like everybody advised me. You can still be aggressive with him just not really offstage. His aggression seems more vertical than horizontal to me

As someone who's using Fox as a secondary everything Rhus said is true. A couple other smaller things to remember

1.) Dtilt is incredibly good in this game. It is one of your combo starting bread and butter moves.
2.) At kill percentages sour spot nair can true combo into u smash. This is one of the best kill confirms you have at your disposal.
3.) Fair has a lot of hit stun on the first couple of hits, so you can actually fast fall after landing the first hit or two, drag opponents down and put them into tech chase situations. You can string this into usmash if the tech is missed. Really underrated part of his kit imo.
4.) Fox's recovery is very linear and easy to punish if you can't use illusion. Make sure you recover high when possible.
5.) You never want to be overly aggressive offstage as Fox, but you can gimp with shine well due to it's lower launch angle and quick startup.

 

[MG_3989]

As someone who's using Fox as a secondary everything Rhus said is true. A couple other smaller things to remember

1.) Dtilt is incredibly good in this game. It is one of your combo starting bread and butter moves.
2.) At kill percentages sour spot nair can true combo into u smash. This is one of the best kill confirms you have at your disposal.
3.) Fair has a lot of hit stun on the first couple of hits, so you can actually fast fall after landing the first hit or two, drag opponents down and put them into tech chase situations. You can string this into usmash if the tech is missed. Really underrated part of his kit imo.
4.) Fox's recovery is very linear and easy to punish if you can't use illusion. Make sure you recover high when possible.
5.) You never want to be overly aggressive offstage as Fox, but you can gimp with shine well due to it's lower launch angle and quick startup.

Thanks for the tips! I’ve realized how important Fox’s tech chase game is and that’s really helped me. I’ve also mastered the nair confirm and I’ve been playing around with fair a lot. I don’t try and edge guad with him yet. Maybe I’ll throw out a bair but that’s it. Overall now that I’ve learned to kill more consistently with him I’m having much better results. I think my main problem with him was killing before

 

[$.A.F.]

Sonic? Aggressive? How much DID they change his kit?