Practice with Mii!

[Lunarshards]

Basically the thread where we post our NNIDs to help you practice in case local tournaments are scarce. For people grinding their character for an upcoming tournament to casuals who are trying to improve their game with their favorite mii.


NNID: frogo13

When the one-inch punch salt is real

 

[GS3K]

This post by jigglymaster sums up my thoughts.

It's funny because both moves require opposite DI. First I'll talk about D-throw.

Generally there are 2 ways to DI Brawler's D-throw and that is either away or directly above him. Against Piston Punch you'd want to DI away to avoid being combo'd, since the move is a vertical hitting attack, this makes it harder for him as well as reducing the vertical distance. For Helicopter Kick, you want to DI behind so that you're directly above him, this makes it harder for him to connect his Helicopter Kick and it reduces the horizontal distance.

When it comes to stage positioning, you're generally safe against Piston Punch if you stay near the bottom and next to the ledge. This of course, is the exact place you DON'T want to be against Helicopter Kick, against that move you'd want to be in the very middle, which is where Piston Punch wants you and on top of platforms of course.

Now, for the actual DIng. I've concluded that holding directly towards the stage help you live a tiny bit longer against Helicopter Kick, no holding up or down. Against Piston Punch, you'd want to again, do the exact opposite. Hold down and away from the stage.

Both moves are generally similar, but Helicopter Kick has the advantage mostly due to the fact that you can get yourself and the opponent in a combo closer to the horizontal blast zones than you can with the vertical blast zone. An opponent who knows better about Piston Punch will avoid platforms at all costs and stay as low as to the ground as they can. Against Helicopter Kick... its harder to avoid being near the ledge because that's generally where you go when you lose stage control. In a nutshell, HK rewards for taking stage control where as PP makes you give your opponent stage control, and even then hey could time you out if they wanted to by camping near the edges of the stage sitting in shield. Because lets be honest, what are you going to do to them?

Should also mention that PP has to fight against many things such as stages without platforms and fall speeds making vertical killing harder. When HK does its business it doesn't matter how heavy you are if it can bring you all the way out to the blast zone before sending you off. Feint Jump also compliments HK more because of how the kick sends the opponent horizontally into a combo.

 

[Lunarshards]

This post by jigglymaster sums up my thoughts.

I agree in the sence that hk opens up opportunity for regaining stage control and packing some additional damage on combos but recovery can't be overlooked. Feint kick provides excellent horizontal recover and hk does the same. PP allows for vertical recovery as well as a killing option out of shield. I belive that pp is better in the sence of general use such as quick kills with OIPs better vertical recover and kill power that is nothing to disrespect. However pp can be switched out for hk in matches against heavy characters. Because of the heavy characters combos run smoother with hk and pp kills later. Getting combos obviously is the better trade off in MUs such as dedede. Basically it's match specific but I belive pp is viable in more MUs

 

[GS3K]

You can pull off OIP a few times, but I wouldn't go for it too often unless it's a light character or you have rage. I agree with punch being good for vertical recovery, though.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I agree in the sence that hk opens up opportunity for regaining stage control and packing some additional damage on combos but recovery can't be overlooked. Feint kick provides excellent horizontal recover and hk does the same. PP allows for vertical recovery as well as a killing option out of shield. I belive that pp is better in the sence of general use such as quick kills with OIPs better vertical recover and kill power that is nothing to disrespect. However pp can be switched out for hk in matches against heavy characters. Because of the heavy characters combos run smoother with hk and pp kills later. Getting combos obviously is the better trade off in MUs such as dedede. Basically it's match specific but I belive pp is viable in more MUs

While PP does have vertical recovery, it doesn't matter much if your horizontal is so good that you never have to go below the stage to recover. Infact, there have been plenty of times where I lived with HK but would've died had I had PP, for example, a Shiek f-airs and bouncing fishes me out of my 2nd jump and feint jump, but I am still able to recover horizontally with HK. As for OoS, both can be used OoS. Sure, PP has a frame 4 startup while HK has a frame 8, but both have a lot of priority and HK is safer on whiff. Use it in conjuction with Feint Jump and you've got some nasty mixups on the opponents shield while staying relatively safe the entire time.

Also, because of where your opponent has to be in order to get the early kills with PP and HK, PP rewards for giving the opponent stage control, and HK rewards the user for taking stage control, so its kind of easy to tell which one is better in the long run at a higher level of play.

In my opinion, the only matchup that PP is better than HK would be against Jigglypuff, maybe Rosalina and G&W, but that's about it. Oh, and Halberd too. But on any other stage or character? HK is better.

 

[Lunarshards]

While PP does have vertical recovery, it doesn't matter much if your horizontal is so good that you never have to go below the stage to recover. Infact, there have been plenty of times where I lived with HK but would've died had I had PP, for example, a Shiek f-airs and bouncing fishes me out of my 2nd jump and feint jump, but I am still able to recover horizontally with HK. As for OoS, both can be used OoS. Sure, PP has a frame 4 startup while HK has a frame 8, but both have a lot of priority and HK is safer on whiff. Use it in conjuction with Feint Jump and you've got some nasty mixups on the opponents shield while staying relatively safe the entire time.

Also, because of where your opponent has to be in order to get the early kills with PP and HK, PP rewards for giving the opponent stage control, and HK rewards the user for taking stage control, so its kind of easy to tell which one is better in the long run at a higher level of play.

In my opinion, the only matchup that PP is better than HK would be against Jigglypuff, maybe Rosalina and G&W, but that's about it. Oh, and Halberd too. But on any other stage or character? HK is better.

Thanks for the feedback puff I'll take that into consideration when making my other mii brawlers. I'll need to play around more with hk more it seems like. It's always nice getting responses from people like you that I get to see play in tournaments often. Keep up the good work as a mii brawler main and a smasher in general. I have a question about a MU that I thought you might be able to help with... I've been having trouble with sonic because he faster than I can zone with shot puts. Is UU the better option? Also how should I stay safe from sonic while still racking up damage. I'm pretty inexperienced in shiek MU but I think I'll be able to figure that out on my own. Once again thanks for the advice and I'll keep that into consideration

 

[Jigglymaster]

I have a question about a MU that I thought you might be able to help with... I've been having trouble with sonic because he faster than I can zone with shot puts. Is UU the better option? Also how should I stay safe from sonic while still racking up damage. I'm pretty inexperienced in shiek MU but I think I'll be able to figure that out on my own.

Sonic and Sheik are both way too fast for Shotput, using that move unless spaced perfectly makes you completely vulnerable, especially against moves like bouncing fish. You'll find UU more handy due to the fact that its simply an extra kill move added to your arsenal. Both Sonic and Sheik are hard matchups for Brawler but you simply gotta be patient, more so with Sonic. Against Sonic you want to do a bunch of n-airs to block out that nasty spindash of his, obviously keep away from the ledge when you're above 100% otherwise you'll be eating a throw kill from Sonic. With Shiek, its a little bit more complex, just learn how to dodge bouncing fish and you should hold your own better.