Possible solution for the wireless controllers

[yume_nikki]

Recently, Nintendo has announced that we will have GCN based controllers for Wii U. However, they will be connected to the Wii Remote, so they are still wireless.

This kind of controllers are generally banned from tournaments because of possible interferences, and there’s no wired controller option currently on Wii U. Who knows, maybe Nintendo will finally release a wired controller, or even Wii U pro controllers might work fine as they are now, but with the current options we may be completely unable to hold tournaments because of interferences.

If that’s the case (I hope it won’t be), I’ve been thinking about a cheap solution that could work (Obviously, it should be tested before applying to real tournaments). All what you need is:


-A Wii U with Smash 4 (obvious)

-Two (or four) controllers that work wired to a Wii Remote. They could be original GCN controllers with adapters, the new pseudo GCN controllers or even Wii Classic controllers.

-A bag that acts as a Faraday cage. It’s something like this (tablet not included):

I think you can find one for even less than 10 $ (just google "emp bag"). It’s meant to block the vast majority of electromagnetic radiation, Bluetooth included. (Maybe even a simple aluminum foil bag could work).

That’s what you have to do:

1) Put the Wii U and both Wii remotes inside the bag, with the front of the Wii U facing the bottom of the bag.

2) Connect all the cables required (power supply, HDMI, both controllers to the Wii Remotes).

3) Close partially the bag. It should have an aperture big enough to have good ventilation (also, all the wires should pass through the aperture). I’m quite sure that as long as the Wii U fan isn’t covered, there shouldn’t be any overheating problems.


This way, the wireless connection between the Wii U and the Wii Remotes would happen in a (nearly) isolated environment, and the connections outside the bag would be wired. I know that there’s a hole left for ventilation and wires, but the odds of having interferences are dramatically reduced. In fact, I think interferences only would be possible if the apertures of two bags are facing each other. That could be easily avoided by orienting all the consoles in the same room towards a certain direction (all the apertures facing a particular wall, for example).

I know this may sound overcomplicated, or even ridiculous at first sight, but if wireless interferences become a real hurdle for the competitive scene and there’s not a single wired option I think we should give it a shot. It's better than not having tournaments at all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You do need to remember that the USB cable that comes included with the Wii U Pro Controller ONLY recharges the controller's battery, so you can't use it to make a wired controller.

 

[Morbi]

I honestly feel as though the competitive scene is just going to use wireless controllers until a wired option is available.

 

[Fuqua]

You do need to remember that the USB cable that comes included with the Wii U Pro Controller ONLY recharges the controller's battery, so you can't use it to make a wired controller.

hes not talking about Wii U Pro Controllers, he's only talking about Controllers that work wired to a Wii Remote.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Regardless of the situation, Wii Remotes are wireless, so it's not really a solution.

 

[Aninymouse]

Are we talking about gripping a controller that is encased in a plastic bag? Good luck playing like that, ha ha.

 

[Johnknight1]

I honestly feel as though the competitive scene is just going to use wireless controllers until a wired option is available.

No, we're going to use unofficial wired USB controller supports until a wired option is allowed.

There's some (mostly rough draft) products like that available right now (for the WiiU).

And if anyone uses wireless play, those tournaments will take forever, because few controllers can be on without input mix ups.

 

[Fuqua]

Regardless of the situation, Wii Remotes are wireless, so it's not really a solution.

did you even read his post? its not supposed to make it wired, the bag would work as a shield to reduce wireless interferences. Are you guys literally incapable of understanding what this guy is trying to say? You don't hold the controller encased in a plastic bag.....

 

[yume_nikki]

Regardless of the situation, Wii Remotes are wireless, so it's not really a solution.

The main problem with wireless controllers are interferences, that only happen when a large amount of consoles are in the same room (a tournament, for example). What I propose is putting the wireless controllers into a bag where there wouldn't be any kind of interference (the connection between the Wii Remotes and the external controllers would be wired), so the problem would be over.

Short version:

Wii U and Wii remotes inside a bag.

GCN controllers outside the bag, wired to the Wii remotes.

The wireless connection happens inside the bag, without any kind of interference. The connection between the inside of the bag (Wii U and Wii Remotes) and the outside (TV, power supply, GCN controllers) is always wired. Therefore, no interference.


Anyway, this is a extreme solution in case interferences are a major issue and we don't have any wired solution. I hope it won't be the case and we wiil be able to play with wired controllers.

 

[Morbi]

No, we're going to use unofficial wired USB controller supports until a wired option is allowed.

There's some (mostly rough draft) products like that available right now (for the WiiU).

And if anyone uses wireless play, those tournaments will take forever, because few controllers can be on without input mix ups.

I wasn't aware that they were available as of current. I suppose it doesn't matter until closer to launch as it is.

 

[Aninymouse]

I wasn't aware that they were available as of current. I suppose it doesn't matter until closer to launch as it is.

Same. First I've heard of wired WiiU controllers. Guess I'll do some searching and see if these things exist.

EDIT:
http://gbatemp.net/threads/mayflash...r-to-pc-usb-adapter-has-been-released.351345/
This is the only thing I've found, but you have to understand that plugging a GC controller into the UBS port of a Wii U means nothing. If the Wii U isn't set up to interpret the signals coming in through its UBS port, it means nothing.

A Wii U system update is most likely necessary.

What are you going to do, hard mod your Wii U? Hack it? Might not work. Those things are pretty expensive...

 

[Chiroz]

No, we're going to use unofficial wired USB controller supports until a wired option is allowed.

There's some (mostly rough draft) products like that available right now (for the WiiU).

And if anyone uses wireless play, those tournaments will take forever, because few controllers can be on without input mix ups.

This is a lie. It's completely impossible for this to be true. The Wii U currently doesn't support wired controllers in its software, meaning it can't read any controller input through its USB port.

Nintendo could easily update their software to allow the Wii U to read inputs from its USB port, but currently it doesn't.



As for the main topic. Please read before writing (directed at people like Mario_Sonic.

This idea actually eliminates every single problem with wireless controllers except for input lag, which I have proven before is less than 1 frame of lag.


Synching - because the same wii controllers are used every match, resynching would never be a problem.

Foul play - controllers would be plugged in the Wii controllers just like the GC controllers are plugged in the GCC/Wii. It would emulate the same exact behavior and foul play would exist at the same exact level as it does in the GCC.

Interference - Because of every Wii U being encased inside a bag with the controllers that belong to it there would be 0 interference

Time - plugging in a controller would be exactly the same as plugging in a GCC controller on a GC, so no problems there.

Battery - Wii remotes could easily be equipped with rechargeable batteries and plugged to a charging station while inside the bag, making battery problems non-existant. As a worse case scenario, since the TO will be the one to encase the Wii U's inside a bag with the controllers he can make sure to put bran new batteries before doing so and be completely certain the batteries will last 10-20 hours, more than enough for his event.

Input delay or dropping/mixup - input dropping/mixup would be completely gone as the plastic bag and close proximity would ensure the Wii U will read every single input from the controller. Delay though would still exist as it will still be a wireless controller. But delay from wireless controllers is so small nowadays that it isn't even a problem at all. (Less than 10 ms which is less than 1 frame or less than 1/60 of a second, this lag is completely unnoticeable to a human being).



I beg any of you to point out a problem managing an event in this way. I believe it really solves every problem with wireless controllers (although it makes the preparation before an event much more time consuming).

 

[Khao]

Same. First I've heard of wired WiiU controllers. Guess I'll do some searching and see if these things exist.

EDIT:
http://gbatemp.net/threads/mayflash...r-to-pc-usb-adapter-has-been-released.351345/
This is the only thing I've found, but you have to understand that plugging a GC controller into the UBS port of a Wii U means nothing. If the Wii U isn't set up to interpret the signals coming in through its UBS port, it means nothing.

A Wii U system update is most likely necessary.

What are you going to do, hard mod your Wii U? Hack it? Might not work. Those things are pretty expensive...

That adapter is not wired, though, it's pretty much just a fancy'd up bluetooth adaptor that works outside the box without needing to mess up with drivers and weird programs and configurations.

 

[Chiroz]

That adapter is not wired, though, it's pretty much just a fancy'd up bluetooth adaptor that works outside the box without needing to mess up with drivers and weird programs and configurations.

Regardless of the situation, Wii Remotes are wireless, so it's not really a solution.

You guys should read the first post (and my post if you're still confused) before writing. The OP never claimed it to be a wired controller. He is proposing a solution to 99% of the problems a wireless controller brings.

The only gripe I have with the idea is that it would essentially eliminate the possibility of using a Wii U Pro which is the best controller I've ever used to play Smash. (Plus it also eliminates the possibility of using Wiimote, Wiimote + Nunchuk or Gamepad too).

 

[Aninymouse]

You guys should read the first post (and my post if you're still confused) before writing. The OP never claimed it to be a wired controller. He is proposing a solution to 99% of the problems a wireless controller brings.

The only gripe I have with the idea is that it would essentially eliminate the possibility of using a Wii U Pro which is the best controller I've ever used to play Smash. (Plus it also eliminates the possibility of using Wiimote, Wiimote + Nunchuk or Gamepad too).

Sounds like a half-measure, but it also seems like the only thing I've seen suggested that cut down on wireless interference or two people playing on the same frequency. Makes me wonder if Nintendo actually ever thought out the whole wireless-only thing as it pertains to Smash 4... If they even know or care about the pitalls for the international events.

 

[Sol_Vent]

I've been wondering if it would be possible to do something like this, although it would be nice if there was a solution that wasn't so... undignified.

I'm still kind of hoping for a more official way of mitigating this problem. After everything that's been done to show more support to the competitive community, it would be pretty silly for there to be nothing addressing what is ultimately a very simple problem.

 

[Johnknight1]

This is a lie. It's completely impossible for this to be true. The Wii U currently doesn't support wired controllers in its software, meaning it can't read any controller input through its USB port.

Nintendo could easily update their software to allow the Wii U to read inputs from its USB port, but currently it doesn't.

The WiiU already supports Keyboards for a USB port, so you could run it like it's a keyboard in the USB port.

Thus your post is a lie.

 

[Chiroz]

The WiiU already supports Keyboards for a USB port, so you could run it like it's a keyboard in the USB port.

Thus your post is a lie.

The input from a keyboard and from a controller is very different. You cannot make a controller that inputs as a keyboard because it does not have the required chip/architecture (if it did it would cease to be a controller and it would be a keyboard or at the very best a combination of both. Or it could have a software integrated that converts the input from controller to keyboard. Either way, the input received by the console is that of a keyboard).

The only thing you could do is make a keyboard that looks like a controller (is designed exactly like a controller but it inputs exactly as a keyboard). The problem with that is that "keyboard input support" is given on a software by software basis. Some softwares like Miiverse or Netflix support keyboards, while others like Hulu don't. No game supports "keyboard" as a custom control and even though Sakurai is known for allowing player's to use any control scheme they want I severely doubt "keyboard" will be one of the supported control schemes.

Short of hacking your Wii U's operating system, which I believe is currently impossible although I might be wrong in that one, there is no way of using a wired controller as of this day on the Wii U game, that's a fact and not a lie. Even if hacking is possible it would mean having to rehack your Wii U everytime there is a system update and fearing that at any moment your Wii U might have unsolvable problems and you will have no tech support or help because you violated the terms of agreement upon hacking it.



Allowing for wired inputs from a controller is extremely easy for Nintendo to patch (Just as they allowed for keyboard input with a patch). The problem is Nintendo needs to think its worth it or have a reason to believe allowing wired controllers will benefit them somehow, which currently they probably don't.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

This is a lie. It's completely impossible for this to be true. The Wii U currently doesn't support wired controllers in its software, meaning it can't read any controller input through its USB port.

Nintendo could easily update their software to allow the Wii U to read inputs from its USB port, but currently it doesn't.

hi

It's not that much of an update either; it wouldn't be much of a patch, really.

As for the bag idea, it could work but it needs to be tested. Frankly, I think we should still keep asking for wired support - I see nothing wrong with it. We're letting the retailers know what we, the customer, want. We shouldn't suck up to everything just because it exists. Heck, make a cable that connects from USB to Wii output, that way you can plug in the Classic Controller *OR* The Gamecube Controller.

come on guys where's the petition

 

[Chiroz]

hi

It's not that much of an update either; it wouldn't be much of a patch, really.

As for the bag idea, it could work but it needs to be tested. Frankly, I think we should still keep asking for wired support - I see nothing wrong with it. We're letting the retailers know what we, the customer, want. We shouldn't suck up to everything just because it exists. Heck, make a cable that connects from USB to Wii output, that way you can plug in the Classic Controller *OR* The Gamecube Controller.

come on guys where's the petition

Did you actually read my post before commenting?

 

[Khao]

You guys should read the first post (and my post if you're still confused) before writing. The OP never claimed it to be a wired controller. He is proposing a solution to 99% of the problems a wireless controller brings.

Oh yeah, know that, I was specifically replying to the post I quoted about the mayflash adapter thingy, not the OP.

 

[Chiroz]

Oh yeah, know that, I was specifically replying to the post I quoted about the mayflash adapter thingy, not the OP.

Oh my bad, thought you were just expressing a general opinion on the thread. I misunderstood.



Anyways to John and ThirdKoopa. As I said, keyboard input is different from controller input. Accepting keyboard inputs != as accepting controller inputs. I also doubt SSB4 will accept keyboard inputs anyways.

Hopefully Nintendo will patch up the Wii U to allow wired controller inputs before SSB4 is released, but for now, there is no way to use a wired controller apart from hacking your Wii U.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Did you actually read my post before commenting?

I commented early, but iunno. It can maybe if it acts as a keyboard function; that was my point

but screw that, it's an easy patch

 

[Chiroz]

I commented early, but iunno. It can maybe if it acts as a keyboard function; that was my point

but screw that, it's an easy patch

Problem is, if it outputs as a Keyboard, then its read as a keyboard by the Wii U. Inputs from keyboard and controller are different so the console will believe the input device is a keyboard and not a controller. What this means is that unless SSB4 specifically accepts keyboards as a control scheme, no controller that sends its input as a keyboard will be usable.

Taking into account that no game on the Wii U up until now accepts a keyboard as its control scheme there is no way to use a wired controller for the time being except for hacking the Wii U's operating system, which I don't even know if its possible as of today.

We should all just try and convince Nintendo to patch the Wii U to accept wired controllers, even if they won't make one themselves (manufacturing costs for millions of controllers that probably won't sell outside of the most hardcore of communities isn't something Nintendo will put up with most probably). That way we can at least have 3rd party controllers be used as a wired alternative.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

any tweet hashtag we should use

we can definitely get the tourney peeps invested

 

[Wario Bros.]

I've been looking up information elsewhere on why EVO banned wireless controllers and it only had one reason listed: too many problems of accidentally pressing the home button mid-match (and that this problems happen on the PS3 far more than the Xbox 360). There was absolutely NOTHING blaming wireless lag, resyncing, time, input delay, etc and I couldn't find any non-EVO articles listing these problems either.

Am I missing something or are people overreacting over stuff that might not actually exist? (tl;dr find me an article with proof that wireless lag, resyncing, and input delay are indeed the root of all or most wireless competitive problems).

 

[TerraRizerKing]

Theyre Just gonna have to put up with using wireless controllers till A wired solution is found.

 

[LancerStaff]

Quick question, is the Pro's USB cable capable of carrying information? It's just like the ones for cameras and such, but I'm not willing to test yet. If the Pro itself can potentially send data too, Nintendo could (and probably will at some point) patch in wired support for existing controllers.

 

[Chiroz]

Quick question, is the Pro's USB cable capable of carrying information? It's just like the ones for cameras and such, but I'm not willing to test yet. If the Pro itself can potentially send data too, Nintendo could (and probably will at some point) patch in wired support for existing controllers.

No, the cable is solely for charging. Nintendo could still patch up the Wii U for wired support, they would just need to make a new wired controller after it (or just allow 3rd parties to make it).

 

[Katy Parry]

Okay, I might sound stupid saying this. But you're saying that bag blocks Bluetooth interference?

That's how the controllers connect to the system. Bluetooth. So if you're blocking that, how will the Wii U continue its connection with the controllers?

 

[Sol_Vent]

Okay, I might sound stupid saying this. But you're saying that bag blocks Bluetooth interference?

That's how the controllers connect to the system. Bluetooth. So if you're blocking that, how will the Wii U continue its connection with the controllers?

Because the wii remotes (which are what interact wirelessly with the console) are also in the bag. The controller then connects wired-ly to the remotes.

 

[Katy Parry]

Because the wii remotes (which are what interact wirelessly with the console) are also in the bag. The controller then connects wired-ly to the remotes.

I'm saying If the Wii mote controllers that connect via Bluetooth are in the bag, how will the system be able to continute connecting if the BAG blocks OUTSIDE Bluetooth?

 

[Chauzu]

General reaction to this thread - there is a reason you should read the post you are responding to...

I'm saying If the Wii mote controllers that connect via Bluetooth are in the bag, how will the system be able to continute connecting if the BAG blocks OUTSIDE Bluetooth?

Might just be me being stupid, but. Wii U system and the connecting Wii controllers in the same bag. These connect to each other, but the bag blocks everything outside. So shouldn't be a problem, in theory?

 

[ryuu seika]

As Chauzu said, both the Wii remotes and the front half of the console would be encased, with the fan and wires on the outside but the seal tight around the console's midriff.
Similarly, wires would be allowed out the other end for the controllers.

 

[Empyrean]

This is actually a very good solution, if the need arises of course. Plus, if the Faraday bags are truly about $10, then it also is quite affordable.

It would also give the community a scientific look. Just imagine walking in a venue and seeing people play with controllers with wires coming out of random bags.

tl;dr: I don't see anything wrong with this idea. Even if there's some input delay because of the wireless connections, everyone would still be on equal ground as there are no other options.

 

[LancerStaff]

...Wouldn't the bags cause interference because of the waves going around in the bag? Depends if the signal is just stopped or deflected.

 

[Chiroz]

I commented early, but iunno. It can maybe if it acts as a keyboard function; that was my point

but screw that, it's an easy patch

@ Johnknight1

Well, Nintendo went ahead and gave us wired controller support! Not only that but it works with Gamecube controllers and if that wasn't enough you don't even have to buy a new controller for it, it works with your old gamecube controllers. And they are even releasing a new Gamecube controller which looks exactly the same with a Smash Logo on it and a slicker looking C-Stick and control stick.

I don't think anyone can ask for any more than that.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I can

Reproduce GC controllers please

 

[yume_nikki]

...Wouldn't the bags cause interference because of the waves going around in the bag? Depends if the signal is just stopped or deflected.

This is actually a very good point. Waves would be reflected, but I believe that teflection would be weak enough to not cause any interference. However, wave propagation is something really complex, we would need lots of maths and simulations to be completely sure.


Anyway, we already have official wired controllers (and even more hype. Nintendo, you're doing it right). Can I request this thread to be closed?

 

[Chiroz]

I can

Reproduce GC controllers please

They are . They're making some new GCC which looks exactly the same but with better looking materials and a Smash Logo.

Well, technically another company is making it but it is official from Nintendo itself which assures its going to meet Nintendo quality standards (best standards in gaming, my N64 and Super Nintendo still work to this very day!)