Possible OP tech

[Litt]

So, I am too lazy to test this myself, on top of not playing anyone in PM unless its tourney, but I thought of this in theory and perhaps its applicable. I'm sure a number of you have read a previous thread where bombing on the opponent was discussed, but because the bombs ignore shields completely, the opponent is actually put in hitstun in their shield when you bomb on them while they are in shield. Depending on the duration of the hitstun, it may be possible to bomb on them, wd back to ground, and bomb on them again before they are able to do anything OoS, pretty much making samus's bombs broken until the next update, but can any of you test this out for me and see what the result is?

 

[M-O.M]

Total: 53
Bomb appears: 10
Bomb exists: 73 frames, then boom
Bomb does damage for 11 frames
Cancel by crouching: 46>

Explosion shield stun: 7
Bomb bounces off shield stun: 6

Frame data for bombs back in melee

 

[Litt]

Total: 53
Bomb appears: 10
Bomb exists: 73 frames, then boom
Bomb does damage for 11 frames
Cancel by crouching: 46>

Explosion shield stun: 7
Bomb bounces off shield stun: 6

Frame data for bombs back in melee

Gee thanks M-O.M .... not like I havent seen that beofre

 

[Narpas_sword]

I'll just Translate that from Barbie, to normal:

"Thanks MOM, but unfortunately the PM data is actually different to Melee Data"

 

[pizzacato]

They get knocked into hit stun (while no longer in shield) and the hit stun lasts until before Samus is able to input DownB. And if the Melee data is consistent, (which I'm sure this much is) then 10 more frames until the next bomb hitbox appears is too long. A frame 1 shine is enough to call it. GGS.

http://youtu.be/pCl2so1OhSo

Here's a small video of how I tested it. In 1/4 time in training mode, I reset two controller to give me a constant crouch, and on the TEST tag, I set the D-pad to special. so I can input DownB while allowing me to hit the shield button and air dodge down with my left hand and spam the D-pad to try and get the earliest frame Down-B. For Fox, I shield and once Fox is in hit stun, I spam B until the shine comes out.

 

[Outthere]

I would like to see how this works against Link or other characters who have trouble acting out of shield. Perhaps this could be more effective against them? I can't test atm but pizzacato you should test this, could possibly be very helpful.

 

[pizzacato]

I would like to see how this works against Link or other characters who have trouble acting out of shield. Perhaps this could be more effective against them? I can't test atm but pizzacato you should test this, could possibly be very helpful.

It's not even an out of shield game at this point, though. It's flat out hit stun. Link's jab in Melee hits on frames 6-8, so no. So any character with a move that hits in less than 10 frames will definitely beat out this sort of pressure. In any case, rolling will probably be the most effective tool out of this pressure, if the opponent has no viable moves. Which I'm sure every character's jab is at most 10 frames. Please correct me, I'm pulling this info out of my ass. I guess read the roll and punish?

New meta GGs. Samus is now a hard counter to characters with no 10 frame moves. Bombs on shield leads to a roll punish. #BROKEN

 

[Litt]

It's not even an out of shield game at this point, though. It's flat out hit stun. Link's jab in Melee hits on frames 6-8, so no. So any character with a move that hits in less than 10 frames will definitely beat out this sort of pressure. In any case, rolling will probably be the most effective tool out of this pressure, if the opponent has no viable moves. Which I'm sure every character's jab is at most 10 frames. Please correct me, I'm pulling this info out of my ***. I guess read the roll and punish?

New meta GGs. Samus is now a hard counter to characters with no 10 frame moves. Bombs on shield leads to a roll punish. #BROKEN

Just the fact that the bombs ignore shields is very beneficial towards samus's metagame, you can just short hop over an opponent in shield and bomb just barely over them which reduces their OoS options, to go left or right, and if they dont react and the bomb hits, samus gets a free grab, dsmash, ice upsmash, or fire fsmash

also chances are other players will not be aware of this and will continue to hold shield instead of try and react, so this can be used as a mix up or one and done against new opponents. Also in that video it looks like you can get a nair off after the bomb before fox can shine you if you choose not to wd back to the ground.

 

[pizzacato]

Actually I was thinking the same thing. Disregarding a waveland, this has so much potential. I just hard-wired a waveland it was just becoming unviable, but my friends here in North Texas are coming up with sick footstool set ups, and this looks promising. Other than that, I'm feeling a dairplane. Ooooooo broken

 

[Nannas]

I Have been playing with the bombs for a while now, and on taller characters ( DK, Bowser, surprisingly not DDD) and Some others there is a semi guaranteed nair or dair hit dependent on percent. This seems to be due to a change in animation that the bombs force at higher percents that make the character go too low. Also Bomb hit to footstool is legit but sadly the only time I have seen it become useful is at high percents where it sets up a tech chase opportunity.

 

[Chevy]

I Have been playing with the bombs for a while now, and on taller characters ( DK, Bowser, surprisingly not DDD) and Some others there is a semi guaranteed nair or dair hit dependent on percent. This seems to be due to a change in animation that the bombs force at higher percents that make the character go too low. Also Bomb hit to footstool is legit but sadly the only time I have seen it become useful is at high percents where it sets up a tech chase opportunity.

I pretty often do bomb-dair-bomb-dair-bomb-dair. It really confuses people if they aren't ready. I even got a chain off on Shroomed at NW Majors.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

I Have been playing with the bombs for a while now, and on taller characters ( DK, Bowser, surprisingly not DDD) and Some others there is a semi guaranteed nair or dair hit dependent on percent. This seems to be due to a change in animation that the bombs force at higher percents that make the character go too low. Also Bomb hit to footstool is legit but sadly the only time I have seen it become useful is at high percents where it sets up a tech chase opportunity.

I've never considered using bomb this way before. Sounds like some tech I might want to try out, if not for the shock factor, then maybe its supposed practicality.