POSSIBLE NEWCOMERS and their effect on VETERAN characters

[Teben]

Nintendo, particularly, has a reputation for being EXTREMELY stingy with their information releases. Being a game that is essentially being developed by Nintendo, they're going to have more dictation over what is and is not revealed regarding the game's content in contrast to any third party developers who may be lending any character licenses.

Also, advertisement is most likely less of a concern to the third party developers because they probably won't be getting royalties for sales of the game. I'm assuming they'd probably acquire some sort of licensing fee from Nintendo after the decision is made and that'd be it. I could be totally wrong on that, but that's my guess.

All that being said, I really have low hopes that Mega Man will make an appearance. As much as I would love to see the blue bomber duking it out with our favorite Italian plumber, Capcom has all but let the original Mega Man franchise die. It's most likely in a shallow grave somewhere next to Street Fighter. I'm almost tempted to say that MegaMan.EXE stands a greater chance of getting into Smash than the original gangsta', but I imagine even that is highly unlikely.

Our best bet is Sonic. Another Konami character has potential as well ( Simon Belmont would be awesome ) and perhaps some sort of Final Fantasy related as a distant third. But, I think there was an early quote by Sakurai saying there wouldn't be more than two or three guest characters, whatever that may mean in the end.

Given Sega's increasingly close relationship with Nintendo, most people seem to agree that his presence is a given at this point. Snake was surprisingly confirmed right away, having apparently been desired for presence in Melee according to various quotes from notable developers. But who knows...until it's really confirmed, Snake may be all we get.

Anything beyond that is cherry's on top, in my opinion.

 

[Sgt.Frog]

A clash in characters is the Zelda/Sheik thing, and it's worrying me as one of many Zelda/Sheik lovers.

Firstly, the paradox.
The Zelda rule is that with each Zelda tale, each Princess, Link, and other character is different. Though they're all called Hyrule, Princess Zelda, whatever, they're all different, which is stupid IMO.
Which leads to thr fact that in Twilight Princess, Sheik made no appearance at all, she had nothing to do with her, as she's the Zelda from OoT.
It'd be a paradox, and wouldn't make sense with Link and Zelda being in their TP suits and Sheik being old now.
I'd hate to see her go, but as ive said in another thread about it, SSB isn't canon, it's completely fictional, and doesn't have to follow the proper storyline of origin, it breaks the mould, and is a medley of history, old and new.
Sheik's popular, it'd be foolish to scrap her because of this clash.

 

[bluebomber22]

A clash in characters is the Zelda/Sheik thing, and it's worrying me as one of many Zelda/Sheik lovers.

Firstly, the paradox.
The Zelda rule is that with each Zelda tale, each Princess, Link, and other character is different. Though they're all called Hyrule, Princess Zelda, whatever, they're all different, which is stupid IMO.
Which leads to thr fact that in Twilight Princess, Sheik made no appearance at all, she had nothing to do with her, as she's the Zelda from OoT.
It'd be a paradox, and wouldn't make sense with Link and Zelda being in their TP suits and Sheik being old now.
I'd hate to see her go, but as ive said in another thread about it, SSB isn't canon, it's completely fictional, and doesn't have to follow the proper storyline of origin, it breaks the mould, and is a medley of history, old and new.
Sheik's popular, it'd be foolish to scrap her because of this clash.

You bring up another good point that completely fits in with this topic: does ZSS effectively replace Sheik? Personally I would say yes, what do you guys think??

@Copperpot- here is what you said (on page 58 of Wiseguy's thread)

It's kind of funny how many sides of the fence there are. I'm a die-hard Megaman fan (since it's first installment, when he was drawn on the box art holding a gun, lol), and I'd rather he not even be included in the game. I can't really pinpoint the reason why, but I just don't want to see him make it. It's almost as if he's already had his run in the fighting genre (Marvel vs. Capcom and it's sequel), and it's time to pass the torch to another rep who hasn't gotten their shot yet.

see?

 

[Dotcom]

First off my love for MM is not blinding me because i am aware of it.

C'mon man I raed all of that and I didn't see "no homo" anywhere in that passage.

 

[bluebomber22]

C'mon man I raed all of that and I didn't see "no homo" anywhere in that passage.

huh? i dont get what you're tryin to say

 

[Dotcom]

You bring up another good point that completely fits in with this topic: does ZSS effectively replace Sheik? Personally I would say yes, what do you guys think

So far absolutely not. From what has been announced SO FAR(note i said so far) is that the only way you can aqquire ZSamus, is by using what appears to be an item(?).and to top that off it seems like Sakurai is saying that ZSamus us considerably weak banking on the fact that in one of her two only screen shots you see her getting blown away. Also Sakurai has given her the ability to pick up Samus' armour. and that doesn't really seem warrior like.

My icing on my proverbial cake.
If you didn't know the series or that character here are most peoples opinions of the character.
Shiek: "Who that dude is wierd" or " Wouldn't wanna see that dude in a dark alley"
Zsamus: "I'd boner her" or ... "I'd bone her".

P.S. nvm that no homo bit.

 

[Sgt.Frog]

A lot of people are saying Zamus will be the successor to Sheik's moveset, I can see where they're coming from. In the Nintendo World trailer, she does a move similar to Sheik's down smash, the breakdance thing.
She's got that whip sword thing, like the chain, but I can't see Zamus being Sheik, she wouldn't fit it, I can see where they're coming from, but no, just no.
She needs something new.

I brought it up on another forum, but got mixed feelings.
If Sheik had to be scrapped, does anyone think Impa from OoT could be brought back?
Nah, come to think of it, she's old too and isn't to do with TP.
If they're following that rule.

Why scrap Sheik then bring Impa back, I can see why I got mixed response.
[/spam]

lol

 

[bluebomber22]

i guess it depends on how often you could access ZSS. If you could only use her once after a FS, then i dont see her as a replacement. but if its possible to start with her and keep her without switching back to regular samus then yes.

 

[Dotcom]

They need to change something because I really hope that it's not the way it's set for now with her acessible after the final smash.
Sakurai vaguley stated that "orbs" will only be acessible once per match, and if so that would suck because if it's counted as an item it might be banned in tournament play making Zsamus ineligible in Tourney play.

Just a thought.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

If Zamus can only be obtained through a Final Smash, then yes, most likely she will be banned(actually the final smash will).

 

[bluebomber22]

i think you have a legitimate concern protoman10, but even though its about 99% likely items wont be allowed in tourneys, thers still a chance that smash orbs will be allowed, maybe to accomodate for ZSS.

MvC does fine with their tournament scene and specials

 

[mkmelee]

So, your saying that ZSS was added onto Samus's game to differentiate from a possible Megaman inclusion?

Makes sense to me.

Though, I really doubt that.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

The problem is that MvC doesn't have items that trigger the specials... atleast not that I remember, I could be wrong. Where the orb lands is completely random and can be very unfair. Also, while I liked MvC(mainly because of Mega) I don't believe it is as much of a highly competitive game as smash, to me it was more of a button pusher, well that's my opinion on it anyway.

 

[bluebomber22]

So, your saying that ZSS was added onto Samus's game to differentiate from a possible Megaman inclusion?

Makes sense to me.

Though, I really doubt that.

i could easily be wrong as there are many possibilities as to ZSS inclusion, but yes i'm hypothesizing that

The problem is that MvC doesn't have items that trigger the specials... atleast not that I remember, I could be wrong. Where the orb lands is completely random and can be very unfair. Also, while I liked MvC(mainly because of Mega) I don't believe it is as much of a highly competitive game as smash, to me it was more of a button pusher, well that's my opinion on it anyway.

you're right there are no items. you build it up (the meter) by attacking. MvC from what i understand does have a fairly large tourney scene. maybe not as big as smash, but big enough to exist none the less. I was just hoping that smashes tourney scene can cope with final smashes. It would suck not to be able to use a character

 

[Johnknight1]

i could easily be wrong as there are many possibilities as to ZSS inclusion, but yes i'm hypothesizing that

And we're all just doing pointless spectating and guessing. Yae pointless spectating and guessing!

you're right there are no items. you build it up (the meter) by attacking. MvC from what i understand does have a fairly large tourney scene. maybe not as big as smash, but big enough to exist none the less. I was just hoping that smashes tourney scene can cope with final smashes. It would suck not to be able to use a character

MvC does have soem tourney scene, but most of it lies in Street Fighter, and Tekken. And smash of course. And since Megaman was good for that game, and has...well...somewat similar controls to SSB [Brawl], I see no reason why he wouldn't be in. Also, if there is a Capcom rep, it's Mega-he's their mascot, so no Viewful Joe (his series will be discontinued sadly), no Leon Kennedy (though he was a bad a**), and more then like no Ryu.

As for the thread, good points, but all this is speculation. AGAIN, yae speculation!

 

[JEBesh]

Caael.. the original post was completely reasonable. A little wishful thinking and fanboy-ish, but reasonable. He didn't go on a rant saying Megaman was confirmed anywhere. Anyone can take someone's statement out of context and make some snide little sarcastic interpretation of it to ridicule them.. it doesn't make you witty or clever, nor discredit their arguement. I know you caught yourself later on, but I thought it needed to be said or it would just happen again.

On the actual topic.. I see where you're coming from, but I don't really think Megaman has much of a chance. I think the scarce third-party slots could be much better used. Don't get me wrong, I love Megaman, but I think there are other third-party characters who could have a much more unique place in Smash, and also have more of Sakurai pulling the proper strings to get them in.

 

[Dotcom]

Actually Iv'e went to a MvC tournament as a spectator and it was cool but.
I don't even how many times I saw the SAME exact team and people doing the SAME exact thing.

People usually picked Storm/Magneto/Sentinel or another team with a Sentinel in it and like it was kind of boring because once someone was backed into a corner they just kept using the infinite combo until the other person died.
Cheap!

Anyways.
Blue I understand what your saying but i'm just thinking that most tournaments wont just let smashes go to accomodate for Samus players, because like it would be unfair to the other person playing.

So here we are back to what I was saying earlier, and this will remain the same were just gonna have to wait.

 

[bluebomber22]

And we're all just doing pointless spectating and guessing. Yae pointless spectating and guessing!



MvC does have soem tourney scene, but most of it lies in Street Fighter, and Tekken. And smash of course. And since Megaman was good for that game, and has...well...somewat similar controls to SSB [Brawl], I see no reason why he wouldn't be in. Also, if there is a Capcom rep, it's Mega-he's their mascot, so no Viewful Joe (his series will be discontinued sadly), no Leon Kennedy (though he was a bad a**), and more then like no Ryu.

As for the thread, good points, but all this is speculation. AGAIN, yae speculation!

Its so sad that all we have is speculation for a lot of stuff in the game at this point, but hey what else can we do? ....lol

Caael.. the original post was completely reasonable. A little wishful thinking and fanboy-ish, but reasonable. He didn't go on a rant saying Megaman was confirmed anywhere. Anyone can take someone's statement out of context and make some snide little sarcastic interpretation of it to ridicule them.. it doesn't make you witty or clever, nor discredit their arguement. I know you caught yourself later on, but I thought it needed to be said or it would just happen again.

On the actual topic.. I see where you're coming from, but I don't really think Megaman has much of a chance. I think the scarce third-party slots could be much better used. Don't get me wrong, I love Megaman, but I think there are other third-party characters who could have a much more unique place in Smash, and also have more of Sakurai pulling the proper strings to get them in.

what do you think about sonic's possible effect on different character's speed? and ZSS and shiek?

 

[Dotcom]

Yep unfortunately I think Vewtiful Joe is discontinued based on the simple fact that Clover Studios(creators) is no more.
*sob*

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Caael.. the original post was completely reasonable. A little wishful thinking and fanboy-ish, but reasonable. He didn't go on a rant saying Megaman was confirmed anywhere. Anyone can take someone's statement out of context and make some snide little sarcastic interpretation of it to ridicule them.. it doesn't make you witty or clever, nor discredit their arguement. I know you caught yourself later on, but I thought it needed to be said or it would just happen again.

On the actual topic.. I see where you're coming from, but I don't really think Megaman has much of a chance. I think the scarce third-party slots could be much better used. Don't get me wrong, I love Megaman, but I think there are other third-party characters who could have a much more unique place in Smash, and also have more of Sakurai pulling the proper strings to get them in.

Like who? Who has made a Substantial impact on nintendo's history that exceeds mega man? I might be forgetting someone, but I was thinking that Sonic and Mega Man were the biggest 3rd party characters on a Nintendo system. I could be wrong.

 

[bluebomber22]

Anyways.
Blue I understand what your saying but i'm just thinking that most tournaments wont just let smashes go to accomodate for Samus players, because like it would be unfair to the other person playing.

So here we are back to what I was saying earlier, and this will remain the same were just gonna have to wait.

You know what I just thought about? Yes it will suck if samus players cant use ZSS in tourneys. But regular Samus was just fine as a character before, so its not like she will have a handicap without ZSS.

@Wizzlecroff- you're right they are the biggest 3rd parties for nintendo

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Yea, Final Smashes should make no big difference if they are taken away. If they did that would be pretty dumb.

 

[Johnknight1]

Caael.. the original post was completely reasonable. A little wishful thinking and fanboy-ish, but reasonable. He didn't go on a rant saying Megaman was confirmed anywhere. Anyone can take someone's statement out of context and make some snide little sarcastic interpretation of it to ridicule them.. it doesn't make you witty or clever, nor discredit their arguement. I know you caught yourself later on, but I thought it needed to be said or it would just happen again.

On the actual topic.. I see where you're coming from, but I don't really think Megaman has much of a chance. I think the scarce third-party slots could be much better used. Don't get me wrong, I love Megaman, but I think there are other third-party characters who could have a much more unique place in Smash, and also have more of Sakurai pulling the proper strings to get them in.

Good points (especially considering your post count=no offense=compliment), but who would be better, have more of an impact on gaming, and be more reconizable=??? Sonic is more reconizable, so we got him. But look at sales...the only 3rd party series that sold more then sonic and MM were:

-Final Fantasy: Last main FF game was on the SNES. Isn't going to happen, EVER!
-Madden NFL: No definition or point needed.
-Grand Theft Auto: Same as above
-Sonic: YES!
-Resident Evil: Owned by Capcom, and MM is their macot. Plus constant changing main character isn't good, even if Leon owns!
-Dragon Quest: You create your own character, and Square Enix only announced a few months ago that the series will be on the DS/Wii.
-Lineage: It's a PC mmorpg, so no way,
-Crash Bandicoot: Ergh...
-Spyro the Dragon: *grunts, mumbles, and comlains*
-Tomb Raider: No Nintendo system appearances, so no.
-Street Fighter: Maybe...but they are owned by Capcom, and Megaman is their mascot...
-Megaman: YES!!!!
-Command and Conquer: PC and Xbox 360 exclusive series.
-Metal Gear [Solid]: That is what I'm talking about!
-Kingdom Hearts: Crono and Geno are cooler than Sora!

^^^^ So you see, there really are no better reps for Brawl than Sonic, Megaman, and Snake. Not very many people would know Leon, not many would know Ryu, Spyro and Crash died with Gex in the 5th gen of gaming, FF characters aren't happening, there is no legiment reason to want to play as John Madden, GTA same and Tomb Raider never appeared on Nintendo systems, therefore they are disqualified. The same goes for Command and Conquer, and Lineage.

Therefore, we get Sonic, Megaman, and Solid Snake. Maybe Geno or Crono as a classic rep of a classic series, as well as Square Enix's rep. O, and don't take my sarcasm seriously anyone, it isn't intended at anyone, more just random talk!

 

[Teben]

The Zelda rule is that with each Zelda tale, each Princess, Link, and other character is different.

Interesting random bit of trivia for you, the first two Zelda titles actually have the same Link, but two different Zeldas. WEIRD.

 

[Dotcom]

yeah uhh JEbesh Wizzlecroft is absoultely right.
If you had to Put up a 3rd party mascot on Nitnedo's front what two would you pick.
Megaman or Sonic.
Think about it what 3rd party character has contributed more to a Company's upbringing than Mega Man. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[JEBesh]

Like who? Who has made a Substantial impact on nintendo's history that exceeds mega man? I might be forgetting someone, but I was thinking that Sonic and Mega Man were the biggest 3rd party characters on a Nintendo system. I could be wrong.

The fact that Megaman is somewhat of a mascot is not enough to get him in to Brawl. You have to understand that there's a huge process behind it with lots of egos. Personally, I believe that Simon Belmont has a much better chance. He was on the poll, which shows Sakurai acknowledges him, and he's owned by Konami. We've already got Snake in. I also believe he could offer much more to Smash that we don't already have than Megaman.

I'm not saying Megaman just doesn't DESERVE to get in, I'm just saying there's not much of a chance.

 

[Sgt.Frog]

Interesting random bit of trivia for you, the first two Zelda titles actually have the same Link, but two different Zeldas. WEIRD.

Kinda forgot about that one. ^_^;

Good to know

 

[Wizzlecroff]

The fact that Megaman is somewhat of a mascot is not enough to get him in to Brawl. You have to understand that there's a huge process behind it with lots of egos. Personally, I believe that Simon Belmont has a much better chance. He was on the poll, which shows Sakurai acknowledges him, and he's owned by Konami. We've already got Snake in. I also believe he could offer much more to Smash that we don't already have than Megaman.

I'm not saying Megaman just doesn't DESERVE to get in, I'm just saying there's not much of a chance.

In your opinion he doesn't have much of a chance. Simon Belmont did not make as big of an impact on Nintendo as Mega Man. If you grew up with Nintendo, you knew Mega Man. I think Nintendo will include Mega Man, as long as capcom agrees. Why wouldn't they? The Mega Man games in the last few years have been mediocre, lack-luster games. Face it, Capcom knows Mega Man isn't that good right now, this could be a renewal of his "fighting" spirit.

 

[JEBesh]

In your opinion he doesn't have much of a chance. Simon Belmont did not make as big of an impact on Nintendo as Mega Man. If you grew up with Nintendo, you knew Mega Man. I think Nintendo will include Mega Man, as long as capcom agrees. Why wouldn't they? The Mega Man games in the last few years have been mediocre, lack-luster games. Face it, Capcom knows Mega Man isn't that good right now, this could be a renewal of his "fighting" spirit.

Yes, in my opinion. I figured it went without saying that any speculation about issues that have not been officially confirmed or de-confirmed is, well, speculation. I already addressed the matter of Mega Man's impact on the company. That's not all there is to it. Any company within this industry normally has a problem with a character that they own being represented in a product that they have no hand in. It's always a pretty big deal when there are exceptions, even when we're talking about the giant that is Super Smash Bros.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Yes, notice I saw where you adressed the company exlusive problem. You cannot disagree that Mega Man's reputation has diminished a great deal. Also, you cannot deny that this would be a great opportunity for Capcom to help Mega Man regain some of his former popularity. I feel it would greatly benefit both Nintendo and Capcom for the Blue Bomber to be in Brawl... man I just noticed how off topic this was. I will try to make my post seem on topic. Since Snake is in... and sorry to say, both Sonic and Mega deserve the spot above him, and Konami did allow him to be in smash(begged is more like it). I see no reason why Mega Man cannot be in Brawl assuming Capcom thinks about Mega Man's future.

 

[JEBesh]

Yes, notice I saw where you adressed the company exlusive problem. You cannot disagree that Mega Man's reputation has diminished a great deal. Also, you cannot deny that this would be a great opportunity for Capcom to help Mega Man regain some of his former popularity. I feel it would greatly benefit both Nintendo and Capcom for the Blue Bomber to be in Brawl... man I just noticed how off topic this was. I will try to make my post seem on topic. Since Snake is in... and sorry to say, both Sonic and Mega deserve the spot above him, and Konami did allow him to be in smash(begged is more like it). I see no reason why Mega Man cannot be in Brawl assuming Capcom thinks about Mega Man's future.

Yes, his popularity has diminished a great deal, but that's more of an arguement against him than for him. Sure, you could say it would refresh his popularity being in Brawl, and it certainly would, but that's a reason for Capcom to put him in, not for Sakurai. Sakurai would have to first ask for Mega Man for Capcom to agree, because I genuinely doubt we're going to have another Hideo Kojima incident. Yes, Mega Man will of course always be a force in the history of this industry, but is that alone enough for Sakurai to put forth the effort to get him in the game? Personally, I don't think it is. Obviously you do, and I'm sure I can't change that, so this discussion is pointless. But even if he did go for it, there's still the issue of lending out their character. The character's reputation is not always a good enough reason for the company to just allow someone to represent their character.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

Well my main point is that you want a well known character. I mean say the 3rd party character that got in was George(was that his name), from Rampage. I doubt that many people would really be excited about that, aside from the fact he would be like DK. You are correct though in the fact that no matter what we say, there are still two different sides to this conversation.

 

[Masque]

This is actually a rather interesting topic. If Toad is included on the playable roster (fingers crossed!), Peach will be getting a new B move. Hopefully she'll get a new one regardless, but the former scenario would be win-win-win: everybody wins. =)

 

[JEBesh]

Well my main point is that you want a well known character. I mean say the 3rd party character that got in was George(was that his name), from Rampage. I doubt that many people would really be excited about that, aside from the fact he would be like DK. You are correct though in the fact that no matter what we say, there are still two different sides to this conversation.

But see, here's my point that I'm sure I've repeated by now. Being well known isn't all it takes for a character to get in. I'd like to think that we all want Smash to be as enjoyable as possible, and all of us want Brawl to bring as much gameplay to the table as it possibly can. It's my honest opinion that if by some chance Mega Man DOES get in Brawl, his spot will have taken up some other third-party character's slot that could have brought so much more diversity. I completely understand everyone WANTING Mega Man in though and have no problem with it, I was just saying that I don't believe his chances are good.

 

[Wizzlecroff]

There may be a more diverse character, which is true. Though, the point of smash is to see our Nintendo Stars battling each other. So we want the big names.

 

[Michael Blaine]

there is no legiment reason to want to play as John Madden

Fat old announcer guy? That would be hilarious. Talk about a wtf character.


But yeah...no just no.

 

[JEBesh]

There may be a more diverse character, which is true. Though, the point of smash is to see our Nintendo Stars battling each other. So we want the big names.

Like I said, I've got no problem with people wanting Mega Man. I'm almost positive Sakurai's main objective is creating the best gameplay he possibly can, though, and since he is the deciding factor on who he's going to push for to get in the game, I believe the diverse AND big-name characters will be the ones who will take the slots. I'm not saying Sakurai should just go and grab some relatively unknown character with not much of a following just because he would be completely unique.

 

[Teben]

Let's just hope when we pop the game in, half the roster aren't pokemon.

 

[bluebomber22]

Personally, I believe that Simon Belmont has a much better chance. He was on the poll, which shows Sakurai acknowledges him, and he's owned by Konami. We've already got Snake in. I also believe he could offer much more to Smash that we don't already have than Megaman.

I'm not saying Megaman just doesn't DESERVE to get in, I'm just saying there's not much of a chance.

Hey, JEBesh, you know mega man was on that poll too right? with multiple nominations. He was voted as having the second highest chances for a 3rd party character not only in this forum, but in several others as well. He has much better chances than you think. I know you aren't bashing mm and thank you for arguing your point intelligently, but MM would be a very unique character if done correctly

This is actually a rather interesting topic. If Toad is included on the playable roster (fingers crossed!), Peach will be getting a new B move. Hopefully she'll get a new one regardless, but the former scenario would be win-win-win: everybody wins. =)

That would be so funny if Toad was in the game and was still peaches B move lol. do you propose a replacement b move if he does appear?