Possible Ness Chaingrab and Bair Jab Locks

[BlueberrySyrup]

Found out bair can lead into jab lock around 27% for most people, and followed up with Fsmash or Usmash depending on if it forces the certain character to jab reset getup.

The chaingrab is done by dthrow --> shorthop fair --> fastfall end --> grab/dashgrab --> continue

It can probably be avoided with decent DI for most characters, but it's definitely something to use against heavies. Had someone try it out, couldn't jump away in time to not get regrabbed. Let's see if we can put this to use!

 

[Earthbound360]

This chain grab setup is something I use sometimes, but it's far from guaranteed. It works mostly on fast fallers, but only if they don't DI it correctly and are at lower percents. I would only attempt to do it once or twice before just going for a basic throw combo.

I'd like to mention that this has nothing to do with weight, jsut fall speed. I sorta wish people would stop interchanging weight with fall speed. Samus is heavy, but falls very slowly. Likewise, Fox is very light, but falls fast.

As for the jab lock, the setup can work, but it's not too useful IMO. First off, the opponent has to not tech the nair/bair, and they have a lot of time to do it. Second, nair and bair aren't moves you want to just be throwing out early in a SH like that, as they can be punished easily. Finally, it only works at very strict percents. If you get it to work, that's cool, but don't go fishing for it.

Also, when testing jab locks, there's a reason CPUs don't get forced getups all the time. Technically, when jab locked, you don't have to do a forced standing getup if you don't press anything at all. If the opponent pressed ANYTHING during their hitstun, the jab lock has a forced getup at the end. This is what people 90% of the time do, which is why jab locks end up working on humans. CPUs don't always do this, so testing jab locks on them can be unreliable.
At least, this is my current understanding of the situation.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

After the 3rd jab, they are forced to get up. You can fish for it safely occasionally, its not a bad thing.

Bair on Sheik works at 22% for a jab lock to FSmash.

It's situational, but it may win you a match.

 

[Earthbound360]

I know... I'm not saying jab locks don't work. I'm just saying why it can be weird to test on CPUs. You seemed confused about it in the video. Jab locks are a thing where you don't try to set them up explicitly, but if the opportunity arises, it can yield great reward. Go for it if you can, but don't force it.

 

[Uffe]

I'm going to test that chain grab thing out later.

 

[Funen1]

I previously made a table detailing when this chaingrab works, if at all, on every character. It was in Training, so no DI, Rage, or damage staling was assumed - most likely you can expect DI and Rage to affect this more than staling, so the numbers will end up being lower in actual battles than what's listed here. This was something I shared with @Noa. recently to help with his D-throw research. Here's what I sent him about this chaingrab:

Spoiler

D-throw to Short-hop F-air to Re-grab ("re-grab" assumes you try to grab as quickly as possible before they can act)

Character | Maximum Percent | When is SH F-air a True Combo?
Mario | ~3% | 3%
Luigi | N/A | N/A
Peach | N/A | N/A
Bowser | ~10% | N/A
Yoshi | N/A | N/A
Rosalina & Luma | N/A | N/A
Bowser Jr. | ~7% | 0%-7%
Wario | ~4% | 0%-4%
Donkey Kong | ~10% | 0%-10%
Diddy Kong | 14% | 0%-14%
Mr. Game & Watch | N/A | N/A
Little Mac | ~5% | 0%-5%
Link | ~11% | 0%-11%
Zelda | N/A | N/A
Sheik | ~14% | 0%-14%
Ganondorf | ~16% | 0%-9%, 11%-14%, 16%
Toon Link | N/A | N/A
Samus | N/A | N/A
Zero Suit Samus | 15% | 0%-15%
Pit | ~4% | 0%-4%
Palutena | ~3% | N/A
Marth | ~1% | 0%-1%
Ike | ~6% | 0%-6%
Robin | ~5% | 0%-5%
Duck Hunt | N/A | N/A
Kirby | N/A | N/A
King Dedede | ~15% | 0%-15%
Meta Knight | ~9% | 0%-9%
Fox | ~16% | 0%-16%
Falco | ~15% | 0%-15%
Pikachu | ~6% | 0%-6%
Charizard | ~4% | 0%-4%
Lucario | ~3% | 0%-3%
Jigglypuff | N/A | N/A
Greninja | ~17% | 0%-13%
R.O.B. | ~2% | 0%-2%
Ness | N/A | N/A
Captain Falcon | ~20% | 0%-20%
Villager | N/A | N/A
Olimar | N/A | N/A
Wii Fit Trainer | N/A | N/A
Shulk | ~5% | 0%-1%, 3%-5%
Dr. Mario | ~3% | 3%
Dark Pit | ~4% | 0%-4%
Lucina | ~1% | 0%-1%
Pac-Man | N/A | N/A
Mega Man | ~12% | 0%-12%
Sonic | ~1% | 0%-1%
Mewtwo | ~1% | 0%-1%
Mii Brawler (thinnest) | ~11% | 0%-11%
Mii Brawler (default) | ~13% | 0%- 13%
Mii Swordfighter (thinnest) | ~5% | 0%-5%
Mii Gunner (thinnest) | N/A | N/A

- The fact that Ness is short-hopping the F-air means that not every hit may connect (full-hopping lifts Ness up to opponents faster), so pulling this off is actually slightly harder from my experience than doing a full-hopped F-air.
- Because this combo tends to work only at very low percents, my stance is that only the characters where this works into the double digits are worth using this combo on. Any stray hits from other moves would push most characters out of this range, plus with Rage and DI they'll be even less susceptible from the get-go.

Also, when testing jab locks, there's a reason CPUs don't get forced getups all the time. Technically, when jab locked, you don't have to do a forced standing getup if you don't press anything at all. If the opponent pressed ANYTHING during their hitstun, the jab lock has a forced getup at the end. This is what people 90% of the time do, which is why jab locks end up working on humans. CPUs don't always do this, so testing jab locks on them can be unreliable.
At least, this is my current understanding of the situation.

Forcing a standing getup is all about timing the jab. You have to hit them after they hit the ground the first time but before they finish their "bouncing" animation and come to a stop. This includes when they're bouncing in the middle of a jab lock - opponents will still bounce twice after getting locked, and you have to jab them between those two bounces to keep it going. That might be where you're seeing the discrepancy. Rush Hour Smash's jab lock tutorial video has a good demo of this here (conveniently with Ness too ).

 

[Meccs]

I made a post in GD a couple days ago but Overall I think the CG thing is relatively situational. like rage kills it and once theyre past like 40% good luck. It's still a great thing to focus on in the beginning of a match tho. I've been able to get in on Sheik, Fox, and Falcon. The timing is pretty rigid, too. I've taken Sheiks across + off stage with it tho so it's definitely a good thing to get a hang of, becuase even if it can be DIed, not everyone will do it right and thats a huge chain to get. Plus it'll make people angrier than Dthrow Fair alrady does, so theres your psychological advantage

 

[thesage]

This is like a combination of the sh fair and the mofo combos Ness had in melee lol. Nice to know these are legit combos and not just things that work on people in for glory.