Possible Banned Characters in Brawl?

[Farca]

Very Possible

I think that there will be one. But it will be on complete accident. Nintendo will give some over powered move to someone that they think you won't do much, but someone will do it alot. They can't really help it since there is a fine line between a character they are good at, and a cheap character.

 

[Shiro Kageryu]

Oh what the **** ever. I didn't imply that at all, I'm just really dissapointed that the phrase ''get a life'' posted from one person to another on an internet forum about a video game is still found funny.

I just wish if someone was gonna insult me, that they'd at least put some effort into being witty about it.

yeah i was just being a ******** jerk so whatever dawg lawl.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think everybody has been thinking this.....


DYLAN, GET A MOTHER ******* LIFE!!
Do somethin else besides play Smash!

I don't think any techniques should be banned. It's no fun without items and Dylan...believe it or not...people do play VGs for fun!

No, but we might be thinking that about you.

Seriously, competitive players play smash for a hobby, in many cases a serious hobby, but that DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEIR ENTIRE LIFE REVOLVES AROUND SMASH!

Have you ever met him? Do you know where he goes/went to school? How many friends he has? Whether he parties? DO EVEN FRIKING KNOW IF HE'S EVEN A GUY?

No, and you assume that he has no life simply because he is serious about smash, for all you know, he's utterly the life of the party.

Please, go out and meet real people, that expirience will teach you about making unwarrented assumptions based on one factor about a person.

 

[Team Giza]

This game is so balanced it scares me.

You serious? Maybe you should play some more games.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

yeah i was just being a ******** jerk so whatever dawg lawl.

No worries dude.

No, but we might be thinking that about you.

Seriously, competitive players play smash for a hobby, in many cases a serious hobby, but that DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEIR ENTIRE LIFE REVOLVES AROUND SMASH!

Have you ever met him? Do you know where he goes/went to school? How many friends he has? Whether he parties? DO EVEN FRIKING KNOW IF HE'S EVEN A GUY?

No, and you assume that he has no life simply because he is serious about smash, for all you know, he's utterly the life of the party.

Please, go out and meet real people, that expirience will teach you about making unwarrented assumptions based on one factor about a person.

Pwnd. In the face.

 

[GaryCXJk]

I think the only characters banned from tournament are those who just blow so friggen hard nobody even wants to play with them.

 

[Chaudgobay]

I highly doubt that will happen, but if it does then the character would have to be banned. It'd be dumb to ban just one of them. "uh oh! He pulled out Charizard! Even though you must go through Charizard to get to Squirtle he still pulled him out so we must disqualify him!" it's just dumb.

As for the SCII remark, the (real) reason why Necros (or whatever his name is) should've been banned from tourney play is because he's a console exclusive character. Same should've been done with Link, Heihachi, and Spawn.

hmmm u are sure man
and to get a rule like u can use charizard just do change and don't atack will downgrade the pokemon trainer forçe alot, cause he can be atacked but not atack with the pokemon

 

[SmashChu]

Everyone seems to think that balancing the game better is impossible. Perfect balance is unattainable, but seriously, how did Sakurai not noice how much Bowser, Pichu, Mewtwo, and Kirby sucked? And how much Marth ruled?

It not the fact it's possible, but more alonmg the lines you'd rather not have it.

One of the problems in the last game was time. If more time was had, Sakurai might have seen all the flaws with the characters. He might have seen the overlly awesome strenghts. He said he would develope it with balance in mind, so with more time, he (and his team) can give it the play testing it needs.

Given, there wills till probobly be teirs, bujt hopefully their a bit better.

 

[Shiro Kageryu]

hmmm u are sure man
and to get a rule like u can use charizard just do change and don't atack will downgrade the pokemon trainer forçe alot, cause he can be atacked but not atack with the pokemon

There's a problem with that though, if you switch out your pokemon with pkmn trainer too quickly and constantly, then you're causing more harm to yourself then good. So to ban just one of the pokemon used will greatly harm pkmn trainer's game. So therefore, in the case that one of the 3 pokemon is broken you will have to just ban the entire character all together.

/shrug

 

[LinkGadra]

I really don't think that any character in brawl is going to be ban worthy. I mean, we let Fox run rampant all over the scene, right?

And for the record, Smash IS Serious Business!

 

[Chaudgobay]

There's a problem with that though, if you switch out your pokemon with pkmn trainer too quickly and constantly, then you're causing more harm to yourself then good. So to ban just one of the pokemon used will greatly harm pkmn trainer's game. So therefore, in the case that one of the 3 pokemon is broken you will have to just ban the entire character all together.

/shrug

yup
that's why i agreed with you

the entire game of pokemon trainer will become stupidly and there is no reason to mantain the character without a pokemon

 

[ALB247]

Seriously, competitive players play smash for a hobby, in many cases a serious hobby, but that DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEIR ENTIRE LIFE REVOLVES AROUND SMASH!

Ain't that the truth...

It's not like Competitive Melee is up there with Competitive Counter-Strike or Competitive Halo 2 where the payouts for a big tournament are usually $100,000+. What's the average for a big Melee tournie? $1,000-5,000?

 

[Drascin]

Bah, melee is only imbalanced at the top level of play wherein the spaces and high/mid tiers dominate playability in tournaments.

If its played casually, like most smashers play it, without advanced techniques, or whatever, all the characters have an equal chance.

Sorry man, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, being a casual myself. The tier list for casual is different indeed, but it is certainly there. This is easy to see when in random matches (random chars, random stage) there will be people who refuse to keep some characters because "they suck". Examples of this are Pichu, Bowser or Yoshi, universally regarded by casuals as wastes of a character slot and a death sentence for those people unlucky enough to end up with them in random, unless they are very good players (for casuals, of course. I for example have trained and consider myself a somewhat decent casual Pichu, just for the WTF factor ).

On the other hand, there are the "good" characters, who everyone agrees are pretty **** good due to managing to be both fast and strong. Examples are Marth or Sheik. There are some discrepancies -Peach is generally considered more of a mid-tier material for most casuals, rather than High - but in general a casual making a list on "strongest characters" will end up with a fairly decent tier list. Remember, a lot of the advantages of top-tiers are much more squeezed by pros, but are readily evident to anyone who looks. You don't really have to be a pro to notice Marth's Fsmash is insanely strong when you hit with the tipper

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ain't that the truth...

It's not like Competitive Melee is up there with Competitive Counter-Strike or Competitive Halo 2 where the payouts for a big tournament are usually $100,000+. What's the average for a big Melee tournie? $1,000-5,000?

Even then, it's not like you can assume that they have no life if they play Competitive Halo 2 or Counter Strike. Though, in that case it's probably more of a job then a hobby, since it would be a major source of income, still the person would be able to have a social life just like other people with jobs.

Ultimately, this just shows that making assumptions about people is bad.

 

[Dr. Strangekoopa]

Sorry man, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, being a casual myself. The tier list for casual is different indeed, but it is certainly there. This is easy to see when in random matches (random chars, random stage) there will be people who refuse to keep some characters because "they suck". Examples of this are Pichu, Bowser or Yoshi, universally regarded by casuals as wastes of a character slot and a death sentence for those people unlucky enough to end up with them in random, unless they are very good players (for casuals, of course. I for example have trained and consider myself a somewhat decent casual Pichu, just for the WTF factor ).

On the other hand, there are the "good" characters, who everyone agrees are pretty **** good due to managing to be both fast and strong. Examples are Marth or Sheik. There are some discrepancies -Peach is generally considered more of a mid-tier material for most casuals, rather than High - but in general a casual making a list on "strongest characters" will end up with a fairly decent tier list. Remember, a lot of the advantages of top-tiers are much more squeezed by pros, but are readily evident to anyone who looks. You don't really have to be a pro to notice Marth's Fsmash is insanely strong when you hit with the tipper

The very nature of a 'casual' match renders any effort to apply the tier system an excercise in futility. I would go so far as to say that in 'casual' play there is really no way to quantify every asset possessed by a character, due in part to a varying degree of skill between players and other factors complicated by the use of items. Now, certain characters are regarded as being stronger, but this is largely an issue of bias.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The very nature of a 'casual' match renders any effort to apply the tier system an excercise in futility. I would go so far as to say that in 'casual' play there is really no way to quantify every asset possessed by a character, due in part to a varying degree of skill between players and other factors complicated by the use of items. Now, certain characters are regarded as being stronger, but this is largely an issue of bias.

Certainly using tiers is rather futile, however it's quite easy to recognize that certain characters are considerably more powerful with relatively little skill. As pointed out before, Marth doesn't need wave-dashing and SHFFLCing to have powerful range, and disjointed hit-box, and relatively quick attacks. Without said special techniques for either, bowser still has a considerable disadvantage against Marth.

While, this doesn't truly reflect the tiers since Peach's effectiveness is not as high at lower levels then at higher levels of play, and Fox is similar in this regard, there is still a definite discrepancy at all levels of play, not just at the highest levels of play.

 

[2007]

Smashboards = serious business

Uhhh... yeah right.

as far as Peach and Fox on the lower levels go, I think you're only half right. Peach does suck, but Fox still ownz like a rapist.

 

[Dr. Strangekoopa]

Certainly using tiers is rather futile, however it's quite easy to recognize that certain characters are considerably more powerful with relatively little skill. As pointed out before, Marth doesn't need wave-dashing and SHFFLCing to have powerful range, and disjointed hit-box, and relatively quick attacks. Without said special techniques for either, bowser still has a considerable disadvantage against Marth.

While, this doesn't truly reflect the tiers since Peach's effectiveness is not as high at lower levels then at higher levels of play, and Fox is similar in this regard, there is still a definite discrepancy at all levels of play, not just at the highest levels of play.

True, and yet the discrepancy in casual play is clearly not large enough to stop Bowser from achieving victory against Marth. Whereas, in tournement play there is absolutely no question as to who the victor would be.

 

[Drascin]

True, and yet the discrepancy in casual play is clearly not large enough to stop Bowser from achieving victory against Marth. Whereas, in tournement play there is absolutely no question as to who the victor would be.

Yes, Bowser can win. But it's going to take a lot of effort and mindgaming on the part of the Bowser player, and luck with the items, and a lot of other factors. The Marth player just needs to play slightly intelligently, not even too well. Seriously, it's an abyss of difference. I have been playing casually since SSBM came out, I think I might know a bit of what goes on on casual matches, neh? . It's not a coincidence that Sheik and Marth are so widely considered "cheap". Their superiority over more than the 70%-80% of the rest of the cast is readily evident. On the other hand, any player with bad enough luck to end up with Bowser generally spends the match grumbling on how he can't hit the broad side of a barn before it rolls out of the way, and how everytime he misses a single attack he eats a barrage of hits. Remember, Bowser is bad in competitive... but without L-Cancel and such, he's even worse, if that is at all possible

 

[shminkledorf]

this topic is stupid.

Don't forget to breathe, people.

This has all been said before.

But seriously, banned characters? please, stfu. Right now.

 

[adumbrodeus]

True, and yet the discrepancy in casual play is clearly not large enough to stop Bowser from achieving victory against Marth. Whereas, in tournement play there is absolutely no question as to who the victor would be.

No, it's basically the same situation, the skill discrepancy dictates who wins and who loses, if the bowser has great enough skill to make up for the inherent weakness of the character, or gets lucky (if items are on), bowser will have an even match with Marth. If it MORE then makes up for Marth's superiority, Bowser will win most of the matches.

That said, I'd say the differentiation between Marth and Bowser is MORE evident at lower levels of play because there is no SHFFLCing to shorten the lag in Bowser's clunky aerial attacks, and generally make them usable against grounded foes, and his other techniques are SO SLOW. Plus, in lower levels of play, people don't use bowser's fortress (up+b) to move, they walk or dash. Marth, while powerful, gains less from advanced techniques then bowser, though Marth still does gain a great deal.

 

[shminkledorf]

Wow, it's a shame you're awfully wrong.

 

[Dr. Strangekoopa]

Yes, Bowser can win. But it's going to take a lot of effort and mindgaming on the part of the Bowser player, and luck with the items, and a lot of other factors. The Marth player just needs to play slightly intelligently, not even too well. Seriously, it's an abyss of difference. I have been playing casually since SSBM came out, I think I might know a bit of what goes on on casual matches, neh? . It's not a coincidence that Sheik and Marth are so widely considered "cheap". Their superiority over more than the 70%-80% of the rest of the cast is readily evident. On the other hand, any player with bad enough luck to end up with Bowser generally spends the match grumbling on how he can't hit the broad side of a barn before it rolls out of the way, and how everytime he misses a single attack he eats a barrage of hits. Remember, Bowser is bad in competitive... but without L-Cancel and such, he's even worse, if that is at all possible

I don't know L-Canceling from beans, but I guess I do okay with Bowser. Maybe all of my friends just suck. You know what? That's probably it . . . Meh, I love the big guy all the same.

What was my point again?

Oh yea... People become obsessed with the Tier system, so much so that it has begun to pervade the minds of even those who play only casually, as evidenced by the above post. When you're talking about AVG Player v. AVG Player, the intricacies of the game (things like framerate and hitboxes) are not entirely evident and verge on being unquantifiable. It's only at high level or tourny play that the nitty gritty stuff begins to apply. A master of Falco V. a Master of Mewtwo- there is no question because Mewtwo lacks the advantages BUILT INTO Falco. Your average Falco Vs Your average Mewtwo? It's a toss-up... Although most- Including me, would bet their money on Falco. So I guess you're right in one sense.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't know L-Canceling from beans, but I guess I do okay with Bowser. Maybe all of my friends just suck. You know what? That's probably it . . . Meh, I love the big guy all the same.

Yeah, your friends do suck.

Though, for bowser, I'd suggest learning how to short hop and L-cancel, they're extremely easy to learn and apply for him, and they give a major advantage for almost no effort. All you need to do is press the jump button a bit more lightly to shorthop, and to L-cancel, all you need to do is press L a bit before you hit the ground after you perform an aerial move. It took me all of 5 minutes and a romp through classic mode to begin reflexively applying it with bowser.



[quote[Oh yea... People become obsessed with the Tier system, so much so that it has begun to pervade the minds of even those who play only casually, as evidenced by the above post. When you're talking about AVG Player v. AVG Player, the intricacies of the game (things like framerate and hitboxes) are not entirely evident and verge on being unquantifiable. It's only at high level or tourny play that the nitty gritty stuff begins to apply. A master of Falco V. a Master of Mewtwo- there is no question because Mewtwo lacks the advantages BUILT INTO Falco. Your average Falco Vs Your average Mewtwo? It's a toss-up... Although most- Including me, would bet their money on Falco. So I guess you're right in one sense.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, certain charecters simply have advantages at certain levels of play.

The intricacies of the game may be unquantifiable, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a decided effect on whether you win or lose.

Of course, the current tiers don't really apply on lower then professional levels of play, why? Because, there are different tiers for your average joe, since, for instance with Falco, it takes considerably more skill to utilize his advantages then your average Joe has. To Average Joe, Top tier is Sheik and Marth, and Falco probably loses out more often then not to Bowser, because average Joe doesn't know how to take advantage of Falco's abilities, and finds himself falling way too fast to recover most of the time.

For average Joe, there is a completely different set of tiers.

Anyone interested in coming up with an average Joe set of tiers?

 

[Dr. Strangekoopa]

Yeah, your friends do suck.

Though, for bowser, I'd suggest learning how to short hop and L-cancel, they're extremely easy to learn and apply for him, and they give a major advantage for almost no effort. All you need to do is press the jump button a bit more lightly to shorthop, and to L-cancel, all you need to do is press L a bit before you hit the ground after you perform an aerial move. It took me all of 5 minutes and a romp through classic mode to begin reflexively applying it with bowser.

Hey, thanks a bunch man. I will try that out.

I disagree, certain charecters simply have advantages at certain levels of play.

The intricacies of the game may be unquantifiable, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a decided effect on whether you win or lose.

Of course, the current tiers don't really apply on lower then professional levels of play, why? Because, there are different tiers for your average joe, since, for instance with Falco, it takes considerably more skill to utilize his advantages then your average Joe has. To Average Joe, Top tier is Sheik and Marth, and Falco probably loses out more often then not to Bowser, because average Joe doesn't know how to take advantage of Falco's abilities, and finds himself falling way too fast to recover most of the time.

For average Joe, there is a completely different set of tiers.

Anyone interested in coming up with an average Joe set of tiers?

Alright, I concede to your point regarding a seperate set of 'casual' or 'average Joe' tiers. As long as we are agreed that while the tier system has its place in casual gameplay, it is inherently more difficult to plot out and standardize, given the varying levels of skill amongst 'average' players and individual opinions of what that 'average' is. Well argued, sir.

 

[Drascin]

I don't know L-Canceling from beans, but I guess I do okay with Bowser. Maybe all of my friends just suck. You know what? That's probably it . . . Meh, I love the big guy all the same.

What was my point again?

Oh yea... People become obsessed with the Tier system, so much so that it has begun to pervade the minds of even those who play only casually, as evidenced by the above post. When you're talking about AVG Player v. AVG Player, the intricacies of the game (things like framerate and hitboxes) are not entirely evident and verge on being unquantifiable. It's only at high level or tourny play that the nitty gritty stuff begins to apply. A master of Falco V. a Master of Mewtwo- there is no question because Mewtwo lacks the advantages BUILT INTO Falco. Your average Falco Vs Your average Mewtwo? It's a toss-up... Although most- Including me, would bet their money on Falco. So I guess you're right in one sense.

Nah, it's not really that. It's just that we've already played a lot of fighters, and we know there's always a few characters who are better than others. I have never, ever met a person who thought of Street Fighter as more than a way to pass a few minutes, not even a particularly fun one, yet it was consensus on my circle of friends that Akuma was cheap as hell, and that not even mastering some of his best moves (when I entered the internet, I learned that Akuma was banned from some tournaments on acount of really being cheap as hell . Looks like we weren't that far off). In Melee it's the same case. For the average Joe, Marth is a bit cheap because he seems to have no real disadvantages - average weight, not too big, isn't as slow as a lot of others when using items, has a long sword that gives him a lot of range, good jumping, fast attacks, and some very strong finishers. He's easy to use and yields good results with minimal risk. That is something every casual player can grasp - when a character gives you a better chance to hit them without them hitting you, that guy's good.

Of course, the difference is that a bad character actually has a chance in casual, but players do recognize them as "bad". In fact, winning with "bad" characters is somewhat of a badge of honor, saying "I'm so good I can win even using that pile of suckage". As I said, that was the main reason I learned to play first Jigglypuff in SSB and then Pichu in Melee (of course, as I started learning, I learned Jiggs wasn't nearly as bad as she looked, but I wasn't not really gonna tell them since they were so ashamed, now was I? ). It's much like using Dan in Street Fighter Alpha. It's just bragging rights. And, as we all know, bragging rights is probably the biggest motivator for a casual player

EDIT: Seems you posted right before me. Okay then, we'll agree on that, mainly because that's what I've been saying . There are tiers in casual, it's just that they're heavily different from competitive tiers.

And Bowser still sucks

 

[adumbrodeus]

Alright, I concede to your point regarding a seperate set of 'casual' or 'average Joe' tiers. As long as we are agreed that while the tier system has its place in casual gameplay, it is inherently more difficult to plot out and standardize, given the varying levels of skill amongst 'average' players and individual opinions of what that 'average' is. Well argued, sir.

Thank you, you argued well as well, and you're being quite gracious as well, and yes, I think it can easily be agreed that it is more difficult to standardize average Joe tiers because average has a wide variance of skill levels and depending on what you qualify as average as far as skills go, the tier alignments can shift quite a bit, except for the top, until you hit nearly competitive levels, Sheik and Marth are top Tier.




Somebody has got to record this though, a discussion where somebody conceded the point, and graciously as well, this never happens online.

This is not sarcasm (in case anyone thinks it is), you sir earn 50 cool points for being able to recognize that your point was in error and being able to concede graciously, good show.

 

[Johnknight1]

It's not like we're gonna see Sakurai revive SSB64 Pikachu and Kirby, so no one shall be banned. Even if there was another SSB64 Pikachu/Kirby, we'd just all use them, since we're like that!

Not banning characters FTW!

 

[nuro]

Don't get grabbed. Anyways, I highly doubt there's going to be banned characters in Smash. Sakurai has his "balance in mind" mindset. From the looks of it, SSBB can be the most balanced of the series, as I have stated before. I've heard from people that Pit and Metaknight look like broken characters, but I think their weaknesses will keep them in check. For example, Metaknight's going to be a light character and have relatively weak attacks. Sakurai has other weaknesses for Metaknight that I don't want to think up of right now. I think Brawl's in safe hands.

I hate people who think this. Remember when Melee was about to be released and everyone was like "Mewtwo is going to be my main/cheapest/awesomness character.

 

[nuro]

I personally think that Nintendo is very stable when it comes to character balance. There may be a few guys who aren't nearly as powerful overall (Pichu) but there's really no one character that just has a ridiculously unfair advantage over everyone else.

Money match? My Pichu vs your whoever?

 

[N1c2k3]

If Zamus becomes a tourny-legal char (b/c of FS ball, w/e), she looks to me to be the closest to brokenness we shall see in this game. If she is or not, Im'a still pay her...

 

[WoapGang]

If Zamus becomes a tourny-legal char (b/c of FS ball, w/e), she looks to me to be the closest to brokenness we shall see in this game. If she is or not, Im'a still pay her...

pay or play...lol

 

[ALB247]

this topic is stupid.

Don't forget to breathe, people.

This has all been said before.

But seriously, banned characters? please, stfu. Right now.

I absolutely love how everyone simply ignored you. Looks like you phail.

 

[prettymanfairy]

I absolutely love how everyone simply ignored you. Looks like you phail.

I think it's good. No one likes a negative nancy.

 

[ALB247]

I think it's good. No one likes a negative nancy.

And whoever that was just got called a girl. Oooooo burn! We're 2/2 now!

 

[ness4life]

By the looks of it, Metaknight seems seriously handicapped.

Multiple Jumps.
Gliding.
Serious Swordpwning.
Reflective cape.

C'MON, KIRBY DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE!!

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Pit seems more broken (awesome) than meta to me

Projectiles, which you can ****ing AIM
Multiple jumps
Smash DI upwards + Glide = how the heck do you edgeguard him
2 disjointed hitboxes

Meta seems really good too..

I think everyone sees meta / pit dominating the tourney scene, but jeez theres gonna be a lot of characters...

I think fox will still rock everyone regardless of nerfs.. so long as he can still jump out of his shine. And it still comes out in one frame.

 

[ALB247]

Like someone stated before, everyone thought Mewtwo was going to **** and look at him now.

It only goes to show what can happen between pre-release and post when all the advanced techniques are found out and the first professional tier is established.

And I also agree that if Fox is realtively unchanged, he will still be top tier.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I think all competitive players know with confidence that due to the nature of smashbrothers where skill defines the winner, and TAJ can win a tournament with mewtwo and perform 0-death combos on fox with beautiful use of the shadowklaw there will be NO character bannings whatsoever in brawl.

Unless of course the character in question is so utterly broken that a newbie can beat a seasoned pro simply by picking that character. Which is very unlikely as most ''broken'' characters require practice to abuse the abilities that make them so good.

 

[gnosis]

I think a character should only be banned if the character is game breaking. If the character being banned leads to much more match diversity and a much more interesting metagame, in other words, a much better game, than I think it can be justified.

Akuma in ST is a good example. With him not banned/soft banned, the metagame of ST consists of 'air fireball' (exaggerating of course, but y'know...). The game is, according to the 10+ years of ST play, better without him.

A lot of the times I've heard people say "Well, if we ban the top character, then the second best is now the new best; banning the top doesn't fix anything." This is not even close to logical.

Perhaps a very simple example will show my point. A game of 5 characters, A-E, exists. A is the best, and the rankings go alphabetically to E, the worst. Now, A is 10 times better than E. B, the second best, is only twice as good as E. Because A is so dominating, he is the only character that has a hope of placing well in any tournament that matters. The game, which had a cast of five, now consists of just A. The metagame is just A. All the strategies are just A.

If we ban A, the balance of the game suddenly becomes leagues better. It becomes feasible to see any of the remaining four characters in a tournament match, as the gap between best and worst has become significantly reduced. The metagame is more in-depth, as the number of match ups and strategies to now gets a significant boost. While there's still a best character, good ol' B, he's nothing like nasty A.

I think bans are only justifiable when we reach this kind of situation, where having a character unbanned only detracts from the game. And I don't think that sort of situation has any real possibility of showing up in Brawl.