position game

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

I was wreaked by a fox for a while when I was able to read him like a book, doing things like resting him out f jumps, and shield sdi to make him whiff his shine after nair.

I asked why I was losing he told me I wasn't winning the neutral game. so I went to mario and wouldn't approach/retreat unless it was safe. I would clear my path upwards upair, or wait for small kinks in fox's movement when he can't rush up shine or quickly slap a nair in my face.

I looked at how I bair people on platforms and how they can't win. I want to come back to ics, but I want to know what postions they can win.

ics win if anyone wds back, if I see fox, watch, marth wd back I always wd and smash/grab it's just a postion they win like vs falcon, dittos, and falco they have to be incrediblely careful about wd back.


de-synces can make this happen but it's the risk/reward is incrediblely debatable and I need both sides of how I can abuse them

 

[cemo]

I would be careful with that since if you wavedash forward on their wavedash back you'll leave them with a frame advantage, since wavedash has 10 frames of lag. I would call that "dangerous and risky" and not "winning", myself. I'm not too sure what the question is, though.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

no retreats are predictable if someone whiffs they retreat, attack again, shield or rarely come forward.

no ics wd game beats others solidly is my point.ics also have the fastest least lagy.

i,m trying to get angles on people like falcondding close enough can easily punish wd back or if i,m on a platform his upair can wreak house.

 

[cemo]

all wavedashes have 10 frames of lag, if you react to a wavedash and wavedash forward you are giving them a free hit, they don't win that at all. there is no such thing as least laggy, they are all the same. what you're saying is wrong and is going to mislead people.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html

ics are airborne frame 4 and have the longest wavedash as a 4 frame jump.

don't pretend those extra frames don't matter or that I don't know what i'm talking about.

like pretending You can't get a frame 6 grab oos.

have nana light shield popo normal. have a move like fox's nair hit and the extra hitstun will desynce ics and popo can dair oos at frame 6 and while they are in hitstun nana buffers soonest grab. so frame 6 grab basically.

 

[cemo]

yes, i know that. and i know there is lag on a wavedash. do you? i'm not talking about jump squat, i am talking about the cooldown period after you wavedash in which you can't do anything.

so let's say you see someone wavedash and you decide hey, you should wavedash too, you are giving them a huge amount of frame advantage to hit you with whatever tilt or smash they feel like hitting you with. unless you are claiming that you can react and respond in one frame the idea of wavedashing into someone who wavedashed back is stupid.

by wavedashing forward you are both making yourself vulnerable and putting yourself in range to be hit.

 

[IndianapolisCentralGaming]

You read bro... I know about the land lag but You don't relieze I can stop a retreat. in neutral if someone whiffs they reattack, shield or retreat nearly always. wd back isn't an option that's ever safe vs ics they have less lag and high proity.

if I saw someone straight up wd back i'd de-synce like iif i play link and I land a fair and can't combo(they could shield) and they can't punish, i,m ballzy and will pull a bomb sometimes because I know 1/3 they will retreat.

but honestly if You want sure i,m wrong about saying ics wd isn't less lagy than anyone else's even if they have a faster jump and 2nd fartherst wd.

who are You trying to impress?

 

[cemo]

well, i was trying to tell you that wavedashing forward is risky, if you want to keep doing it that's your decision. but it seems incongruent to post a topic looking for discussion and then rejecting any criticism on the topic.