Poor Fox

[Hong]

I agree that Kirby was far too powerful in SSB64. Let that freaking demon remain sealed.

Kirby needs two things. The first being better throws. His forward and back throws are a joke. They have become exclusively used for demoralizing Kirbycides and at a low percentage you can break out during the journey. His up throw should be on par with either the damage or the knock back from SSB64. (where it was formally his forward throw). Either that, or at least get rid of the lag so they can't attack Kirby during the delay. :/ I don't really know what to do with his down throw.

The second thing is his Inhale ability should work on solid projectiles so he can spit them back out as stars. This was Kirby's trademark from the very beginning. I can understand if they don't want to give him powers for every single thing he Inhales, but something like this is reasonable.

I guess his smashes could use some work so something other than his downs smash and occasionally his up smash is used but that's not exactly needed.

Though this is about Fox so I'll shush now.

 

[Demon_machinE]

Don't be so condescending towards casual players. They deal with imbalance too.At any level, it's obvious that Kirby blows and Sheik is stupid good.

If tier lists only applied to the top level, than the rankings we see from the early years of Melee (when the game bore little resemblance to the game we play today; that is, the top level was at a level we'd consider nooby nowadays) should bear no resemblance to the tiers we see today. This is because, at the much higher level of play that we have today, our tiers shouldn't apply to them since they don't play at the top level of the current metagame.

So let's look atthe very first SWF tier list.

As you can see, there's only a few notable changes. Luigi and Mario are higher than usual, Captain Falcon is shockingly low, and there's a few characters who have moved a few spots since then, but haven't really changed tiers. Zelda I don't count because her placement used to, supposedly, be influenced by Sheik's, so the two Zeldas aren't really comparable.

That's surprisingly few changes, considering you're idea that a player has to be at the top level of the current metagame for the tier list to apply to them.

Yes, as skill increases, characters are re-evaluated and adjusted accordingly. One noticeable example is Roy in low level to top level. For the most part though, there's a handful of characters that are always good and a handful of characters that are always trash, and our current tier list is surprisingly accurate at any level.

My point is, it's not only top players who have earned the right to gripe about tiers, because of this strange idea that they're the only ones who have to deal with them. Imbalance is encountered at every level, even if the tiers of characters may differ a bit between the tiers of players.

What you say is true. But I am tired of people posting about how they want this game to be balanced in a 1v1 setting, since 1v1 style competition is not what sakurai has in mind when he makes this game.

I realize that some characters are brokenly good, whilst others are completly terrible. What I said about the tier list is still accurate, however, and I am still right in saying that most people here do not even understand the meaning of a tier list, as they believe it to be a character ranking that applies at every level of play.

Hopefully sakurai will boost up the characters with disadvantages, and leave the top characters the same, since there is nothing WRONG with fox/falco/marth/peach.

Sheik is just a boring character. I dont see how you can enjoy playing her for more than a month without throwing up from boredom. She shouldn't even be in brawl in my opinion.

But quite frankly, characters in the high/top tier in melee are examples of characters done right, since any fox player can be killed with ease by a better mario player due to fox's obvious recovery and fast falling nature that make him combo meat.

So I hope that the weak characters get a boost, and the top ones stay the same, with a few modifications of course. Dont want this to be too boring now.

 

[SmashChu]

Tier lists. are NOT character rankings

The tier list does not apply to you unless you play at the top tournament level

QFT.

I think Fox will stay up in the top of the tier list. He's built for 1v1s, so naturally, he's going to do better in tournamants.

 

[Demon_machinE]

I think Fox will stay up in the top of the tier list. He's built for 1v1s, so naturally, he's going to do better in tournamants.

Yeah, he might lose his top spot, but theres a good chance he'll still dominate the other characters in a 1v1 setting with no items and whatever.

Pit is going to be better than fox, in my opinion, by the looks of it

Multiple jumps leading to insane edgeguarding skills? Check
Disjointed hitboxes? Check... and Check. two swords.... O.o
projectiles? Check

GG other characters. Unless metaknight also has a projectile...

 

[Exorcist]

Personally this is what I'd like to see nerf-wise.(this doesn't apply to those who in my opinion don't really deserve nerfing):

Fox: Have his shine come out in a little more than 1 frame. I'm thinking just a little less frames than Mario's cape.

Shiek: Personally, if she still is still in attached to Zelda I'd like it so they changed Zelda/Shiek to the way they intended her to be in the way that you damage as Shiek and kill as Zelda. I doubt that this will happen, but meh Sakurai has surprised me before.

Marth: If he is still in, give him a realist grab range. And as much as you all will absolutely hate me for this... take away his tipper.

Peach: Simply make Dsmash a single hold attack instead of a 5 hold that sucks you in.

C. Falcon. In my opinion he was made absolutely fair. Keep him the way he is and if anything make his running speed just a tad slower.

Ice Climbers: Take away the infinite.