poopfox

[legion598]

so I need some critique on this match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrCKRi_FNp4 . Basically just some strats that I could use to make my falcon more efficient. I realize theres some consistency issues but im looking for suggestions along the lines of spacing advice and overall strategies. Mainly fox just pisses me off and makes me play bad like what happens at 6:55 for example, rage.

 

[Wenbobular]

HAHAHAHA Firefox somehow clanked with Fsmash?

Controlling your emotions is like .... one of the most important skills to have if you want to get anywhere <_<

I think you shield and roll too much and need to pivot Nair more ... a lot more xD pivot Nair *****

I however have a terrible nose for efficiency / techchasing / edgeguarding / doing anything offensive so I can't help you out there

 

[legion598]

ya lol when I fight fox I get waaaaayyy too defensive and shield soooo much even tho falcons shield is bad

 

[Wenbobular]

Yeah, it's tough
I still can't fight Foxes V_V

 

[j3ly]

the CF main should use utilt to edgeguard in this situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrCKRi_FNp4&t=1m18s

(1:17/1:18)

when in doubt, recover high and DI 8)

 

[Wenbobular]

I would stomp there, it's basically guaranteed to hit them because stomp has such a big hitbox
Of course, you have to be ready if they tech ... and if they instant illusion then this method of edgeguarding only gets you like 16% or so unless you edgecancel and fall onto the ledge

 

[legion598]

hmmm most foxes i play are very proficient with their recoveries and would almost certainly tech Dair. Utilt is the best answer. I just suk at spacing it. Ill work on that thx bunches. was almost thinking of sticking a Fsmash there though cuz he was far enough above the ledge lol

 

[Pr0jecT]

Movement is great, learn to USE it though. If you can run around so well like that make sure youre doing it to mindgame into grabs.

Fox and Falco are about PROXIMITY. Keep close and on top of them, but not close enough for them to hit you. You just want the spacie to feel VERY pressured.

Your nairs seem fine, just your follow ups could use some work. Nair > Grab at low %'s. Nair > Stomp at mid/high so you can punish missed techs.

Your follow ups in general seem like they could use some work, DON'T RUSH YOURSELF!!!! I know you wanna punish the **** out of him, but be sure to take your time. I see you Dthrowing and not even thinking about the situation, your move choice is a little off. You'll Dthrow and then just instantly go for a spot dodge knee off your first grab. DON'T!

If you grab him and dthrow, he has 4 options. Tech in place, Tech away, tech twords and NO TECH AT ALL.
Hes going to probably tech so be aware, and a tech in place isn't very likely unless he has the momentum in the match. So grab, and wait for him to tech away or twords and then get the grab again. Doing this will force most fox players into teching either in place on the 2nd throw, or the oppposite of whatever way they teched.

If he techs in place, punish with a knee or stomp. If he techs the opposite way he teched on the first grab, then just regrab/knee. RAPTOR BOOST IS YOUR FRIEND AFTER THE FIRST DTHROW AND WILL COVER ALMOST EVERY OPTION IF YOU RUN BEHIND HIM THEN RAPTOR BOOST THE OPPOSITE WAY. It'll hit his nontech and chase his tech behind you.

I don't see any uthrows. Learn to use uthrow as a mixup at mid-higher percents, many players panic and will miss the uthrow tech or will make it more obvious which way they are going to tech because you can see which way they are going to DI a little longer. Not only that, but I saw you can gentleman quite well.

Uthrow>gentleman mixup will ALMOST ALWAYS GET YOU A KNEE OFF A MISSED TECH.

Gentleman more on his shield when you're keeping proximity and trying to pressure him.


I think you're on the right track though, good looks man. You have your fundamentals down, its the small things that you seem to be having trouble with.

 

[Wenbobular]

hmmm most foxes i play are very proficient with their recoveries and would almost certainly tech Dair. Utilt is the best answer. I just suk at spacing it. Ill work on that thx bunches. was almost thinking of sticking a Fsmash there though cuz he was far enough above the ledge lol

Teching the Dair isn't the problem (almost any space animal will) because you can still follow that up

Tech to instant illusion you can't do anything about if you don't edgecancel onto the ledge

 

[legion598]

ya they can tech instant illusion. I also prefer the options that limit what they can do to survive the most. Ill probly use Utilt from now on.

 

[Pr0jecT]

Sweetspot Utilt over Stomp if they are firefoxing from below? Whaaaaaat? I find Utilt ultra situational.

Back twords the ledge, Stomp>wavedash instant ledgehog>ledgehop stomp repeat.

 

[Wenbobular]

You have to edgecancel to get on the edge before they illusion if they instant illusion after the ledgetech

 

[Pr0jecT]

Theres VERY few foxs who are able to do that. You're talking about less than 5% of spacie players who can react with that. The only spacie I play that is able to do that almost everytime with precision is Colbol and ShizWiz.

Theres no sense in giving up something so safe like stomp for a Utilt because you THINK they're going to do that. Utilt is situational, if it's clear they are able to pull **** like that then by all means try and space the Utilt, otherwise I don't find it to be worth it nearly as much. A good fox who can instant ledgetech>illusion is going to DI the Utilt correct regardless if they can pull that kinda ****.

I mean, even if you DO hit the utilt- depending on their % and DI its either going to work out for you better than a stomp or its going to allow them to have both the Illusion AND firefox option. Stomp forces them INTO a firefox at ONE angle if they don't tech it and meteor cancel. Even if they **** up the meteor cancel stomp has just given you a stock. People **** up the timing all the time under pressure.

Basically, utilt is only good if they are at a high enough % where it'll set you up for a ledgehog/easy landing lag kill. Like i said, the move is situational. I use it mainly as a trap or to use it as an "awkward" move to screw with peoples DI when recovering.

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha, I'm just saying if they can ... xD

Utilt has the same problem if they're hugging the ledge while recovering

Eventually I feel like space animals will get good enough that we'll start to see these things be used regularly
Also stuff like shortening the illusion, sweetspotting Firefox from below

When space animals learn how to recover properly, watch out ... O_O

 

[legion598]

well depending on the angle I go for the ledge hop knee. See them up Bing> grab the ledge> ledge hop knee them. I was talking about an up diagonal recovery for U tilt. literally all the foxs I know can tech jump illusion. but even if they tech and dont illusion you will have to hit them again on their up B.

 

[Wenbobular]

If you know the Fox you're playing can sweetspot from below, sometimes the best idea is to just roll haha

 

[Deleted member]

i know some unknown socal foxes who can ledgetech side-b

the problem with it is if i hit them when they are not quite horizontal to the ledge they will side-b underneath the edge, dying

 

[Pr0jecT]

Like i said, consistently. I know a few players here who are unknown (like Animal) who can do the same. Its just not worth the risk overall imo. Im not saying utilt spaced is bad, its great if hit. Its better than samus's arguably because it ALWAYS hits horizontally. Its just that he has BETTER OPTIONS OVERALL.

Its personal preference though, I feel that using your best option everytime is usually your best bet with such an abusable character. I dont like "betting" on my abilities to space such an awkward move as an edgegaurd when i can GAURENTEE something else. Fox is fox, characters gonna make it back wether or not you do everything perfect.

 

[ryankam10]

run off and back air them into the stage
itll work like... the first time... lol

 

[Wenbobular]

Any decent player just presses L/R before they hit the ledge <_<
So actually it like never works

 

[ryankam10]

Any decent player just presses L/R before they hit the ledge <_<
So actually it like never works

key word decent :|

 

[Faithkeeper]

Any decent player just presses L/R before they hit the ledge <_<
So actually it like never works

Mango did it to chops at ROM3... I think he's decent.

 

[Wenbobular]

I mean, even the greats mess up
But you shouldn't expect it to work is what I'm trying to get at ~_~