@PMBR pivot grab mechanics question

[G13_Flux]

i was hoping that a pmbr member would be able to answer this question, preferably one who knows about a lot of the coding:

i am a wolf main, and i have been messing around a lot with his pivot grab. ive used this mechanic ever since vbrawl, but as ive gotten more proficient with its use and control input, ive started to notice a couple of odd things about it. now i understand that there exists such a thing called reverse boost grabbing, where one cancels a dash attack with a pivot grab and slides a fair distance (character depending) while performing the grab. i understand how to use this and i understand that wolf is one of the characters that gets a lengthy slide.

my question is that i sometimes see this slide happen if i perfom the pivot grab quickly out of a dash, even though i do not use the dash attack cancel method to do so. i have tested this numerous times, and i notice that usually if i pivot grab before the end of his DD window, he will stop in place and pivot grab. if i pivot grab after the DD window is up, he will slide just a little bit when he grabs. this third situation that i notice however, is a much longer slide that should have implied i DA cancelled, even when i did not, and it only happens at some point early on in the initial dash animation

i know this is a fairly small detail, and very few people even use pivot grabbing, but for someone who has tried to make extensive use out of it, it really bothers me. there are times when i zing far out of range of the opponent because of this happening, and im annoyed that i cant always garner full control of the grab, and risk this slide occuring. i have noticed in on other characters as well like lucario and diddy, but not everyone.

 

[himemiya]

youtube demonstration please.

 

[SpiderMad]

Well here's a DACPG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T448wVBfnG0

But about the Pivot grab thing, I've only seen a video somewhere telling about how Diddy slides after his turn around/end of dash and that can lead to some things: but I'm half clueless on that one.

I mean there's this, but like you said you never inputted any kind of dash attack (this one does).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NRioYJxTeI

 

[G13_Flux]

there wouldnt be a sense in me uploading a video, because all you would see is something that looks exactly like the DACPG, and i would just tell you that i didnt input a DA.

The only way someone is going to understand what im saying i guess is to play around with wolfs pivot grab, and you will eventually notice that you get that slide without doing the DA. The only explanation i can come up with is that there is some frame (or frame window) early on in the initial dash animation (it does not occur after this, once in a full run the pivot grab is consistent), that when you input a pivot grab, it causes that slide, even without the DA.

ive been messing with this a lot, and i no im not just screwing up controls or getting confused or something. I wasnt sure if it was a bug or if it was just some odd mechanic

 

[MaxThunder]

i'm pretty sure that was possible in brawl too... at least with marth...

 

[theONEjanitor]

i didn't code the game nor do I even know anything about coding, but i have noticed the same thing (if i'm understanding you correctly) and i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that you're cancelling a dash-grab into another turn-around dash grab, causing a a similar boost as if you'd used a dash attack cancel.

if you go into training mode and slow the speed down, you see the cancel.

Also, if, in the intial dash, you hit back slightly before you hit grab, you will get what looks like a normal pivot grab. I.e the character will turn around in place and do a standing grab. (with a few exceptions) but you hit back and Z at the same time, or z before back (similar to the b-reverse input), you will get either a boost pivot grab, or a non-boosted reverse dash grab.

you'll notice that during the boost pivot grab, the character does the dash-grab animation, not the standing grab animation. (unlike the "normal" pivot grab which is the standing grab animation and is not canceled. it is a true melee-style pivot grab. although it's way easier to do in this game). in most cases at least, some people like DDD and squirtle still appear to do the standing grab animation. and some characters, like ROB i noticed does his dash grab animation in all cases.

the only thing I can't explain is that sometimes, you get a non-boosted, reverse-dash grab (as in, the character will turn around and do the dash grab animation, canceled, except not boosted) rather than a boosted reverse pivot grab, or a regular pivot grab. and I can't figure out what causes which. (with wolf you can tell if you canceled your grab into a boost or non-boost dash grab by what hand he grabs with. for some reason wolf usually grabs with his right hand, but with a boost pivot [or with a non-boosted reverse dash grab] he grabs with his left.

my initial guess was that you may be allowed to input a dash on an earlier frame than you can input a reverse-dash (dash dance), and if you input reverse grab on a frame before you're allowed to dash dance, you get a boost pivot grab, and if you do it on a frame after you're allowed to dash dance, you get a non-boosted reverse dash grab. (and as before, if you hit back slightly before you hit Z, you get a 'normal pivot grab'. I dont think this is correct though, but I dont really have a way of testing it.

hopefully this makes sense, its kind of hard to explain. I probably didn't help. but I spend a lot of time in training mode trying to figure this out and this ****s mad weird lol

 

[G13_Flux]

no i understand what ur saying. ur part about the dash grab actually does make sense, the only part that would wouldnt fit in is that you could cancel it after the DD window was up and not get the same effect. The thing u were talking about where they sometimes just run the other way and grab is most likely because u hit the opposite direction to pivot too early, resulting in a DD. the other thing is that the pivot grab actually uses a completely seperate animation from the dash grab or standing grab, and it has different properties than the melee pivot grab, which was really a standing grab. during the DD window u can do either a standing grab pivot, or an actually pivot grab, depending on the timing on which u inputted the pivot in relation to the grab.