PM Wish List

[DrinkingFood]

I guess I have to have something.

+Speedier Link


+Stupid nerfs that I probably don't understand the ramifications of
------Nayru's Love not completely cancelling out an attack that's clearly touching Zelda as she uses it (srsly)
------A little less range on Wolf's F-Smash

+Small buffs that probably aren't needed
------A better indicator of ROB's current charge (brighter eyes or something)
------Wario Waft not being shut down by being hit the milisecond he uses it, to compensate for how long it takes to charge (maybe give him light armor? I don't know)
------Decrease the ending lag on Luigi's fireball
------Beefier bombs for Link (not blowing up when dropped from so high, and able to take more of a beating)

+
------That's called using Toon Link

+
------idc 'bout that stage stuff

+
------Nayru's Love is supposed to be a panic button kind of attack. It's got invinc on something like frames 4-13, that's why it beats out a lot of stuff
------Wolf's fsmash is fine, its sweetspot still requires spacing; of all the ridiculous moves to complain about, this should not be it

+
------ROB's current charge on what? Regardless, whether his laser or gyro, both are very easy to just remember the charge on, once you're used to playing him.
------I agree with this wario one
------Luigi's fireball lag has already been decreased significantly from melee, you can now SH fireball waveland
------Link's bomb's being tougher means he can't set them off for bomb jumps. PMBR already lowered their health to make this easier, I believe.



And for a few of the rest of you, I'm surprised people are calling for ROB nerfs. JCz is the only person to ever make even a reasonable showing with him. Of course, this will only be until I can make it to reasonably sized tourneys on a regular basis but my point stands

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

My wishlist:

-Luigi's Mansion returning, balanced for competitive play as well (they could do what did with Rumble Falls or Green Hill Zone)

-Balanced Shadow Moses Island (at least no walk offº)
ºon second thought, no walk off stages in general, even for casual stages like Mario Circuit)

-Pajama Ness costume

-the N64 stages made to look nicer (I know there's a thread elsewhere for that but I just want it officially included).

-An item replacing the curry that would temporarily put you in Turbo mode

-Lucas having a new idle animation where, instead of closing his eyes and shaking his fists, he'd completely stop moving and give a 1000-yard stare befitting someone with possible PTSD. It would fit him better as he went through a lot in Mother 3, so that cowardly idle animation he has now doesn't do him justice.

-The option to have another skin over Dracula's Castle. I like the stage, it's great for both competitive and casual play, but Castlevania isn't represented in Smash Bros. anywhere, so I don't think the stage is visually appropriate. My personal choice would be either to reskin it to look like Luigi's Mansion (maybe not the old Brawl one, but the roof from the game's final battle with King Boo and Bowser) or a new Mario stage like Bowser's Castle (the statues could look instead like Bowser statues, for example)

EDIT: also reskin SSE Jungle as Distant Planet

-Yoshi and Samus

 

[hotdogturtle]

I want Wario to have some of the range on his Dsmash back. The originally nerfed it a couple patches ago because it was too good for edgeguarding or tech chasing or something (I forgot what they said), but now it's so short that it's hardly even usable for any of those things.

Now that it's brought up, the thing about him losing his waft as soon as he gets hit is a good complaint too. If you get touched while using it, then your last 2 minutes were all wasted.

 

[DrinkingFood]

your last 2 minutes were all wasted.

well that's a bit of an exaggeration really... your last two minutes should have been spent doing whatever else you do in smash bros, such as knocking the opponent off; the waft should be considered like a bonus, you shouldn't be relying on it and trying to stall for it

 

[Fortress]

------That's called using Toon Link

I don't really feel like changing my main to somebody so different just because I'm having an issue with speed. I'm not the only one who wants his jab3 sped up, though the rest of it is just idle wishing.

------Nayru's Love is supposed to be a panic button kind of attack. It's got invinc on something like frames 4-13, that's why it beats out a lot of stuff

Fair enough, since Zelda's got little else going for her in terms of defense, but, ****. It's a little silly to be throwing a Mario f-smash in her face, see and hear the attack, and have it cancelled out.

------Wolf's fsmash is fine, its sweetspot still requires spacing; of all the ridiculous moves to complain about, this should not be it

I still think the move is bat**** crazy, as is Wolf on the whole, but he's one of my worst matchups. I'm more than a little biased against him.

------ROB's current charge on what? Regardless, whether his laser or gyro, both are very easy to just remember the charge on, once you're used to playing him.

On his laser. I just figured there should be some sort of indicator as to when one is ready other than ballparking the timing on it. I don't see how it could hurt at all. It's not like it increases or decreases the ability of the character itself.

------I agree with this wario one

I figure just give him some kind of armor on the startup of the move, light or otherwise. It takes so long to ready up, and I understand that for how strong it is that there has to be some compensation, but it's a little easy to snuff the attack out.

------Luigi's fireball lag has already been decreased significantly from melee, you can now SH fireball waveland

Granted, but it's still pretty slow.

------Link's bomb's being tougher means he can't set them off for bomb jumps. PMBR already lowered their health to make this easier, I believe.

I guess I didn't think about that, how it'd be more difficult to perform bomb recoveries if that were the case.

And for a few of the rest of you, I'm surprised people are calling for ROB nerfs. JCz is the only person to ever make even a reasonable showing with him. Of course, this will only be until I can make it to reasonably sized tourneys on a regular basis but my point stands

I'm not calling for any nerfs on ROB, he's fine as is and is very fun to play, but I would just like to see some kind of indicator for his neutral B charge, similar to the Wario Waft.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@Fortress For future reference... replying with super fragmented quotes like that literally makes me just want to not even bother reading the post, much less even replying. I'm not the only one that feels that way, either; many just ignore posts like that. But for this once:

In order of frantic fragmented ugly quote fracturing:

Link's got two Jab3's, or at least, two potential follow ups to the double jab, so idk which you mean. Either way, Jab3 isn't that important for him, I rarely see any good Link mains that don't go straight from Jab2 into something like Grab or Up-b.

If it's silly to throw out fsmash and get Nayru'd, then stop throwing out fsmash, especially when she can Nayru. That's like, basic smash bros. Stop doing things that don't work. There is no perfect option, of course there's something that's going to beat fsmash, and there will be something that will beat Nayru's. Rare cases of things not beatable get treatment by PMBR.

Wolf is significantly less bat**** crazy than the other spacies. There's nothing overwhelming or polarizing about his fsmash. It's just a long reaching move with a nice sweetspot but plenty of endlag. It's not unlike marth's fsmash, except it doesn't cover over his head.

ROB already has an indicator for his full laser: The light on top of his head turns on, Don't remember if it flashes or just stays on because I don't use it to tell, I just intuitively know usually because I main him. Or it might be that I don't even realize that I look at the light. Nonetheless, that's been there since brawl.

I'd rather Wario just keep his waft when hit out of it such that the hitbox doesn't come out. I think players should still be required to use the move when it's reasonably safe to do so without getting hit at all rather than just tanking the move, but being punished both in terms of taking a hit and losing such a slow charge at the same time seems a bit much.

Luigi's fireball isn't as fast as Mario's but still has use, especially when someone DIs an upair and his slow air speed stops you from following up, fireball can often buy the time you need to get grounded and follow up from there. Not every move needs to be a great move or serve the same purpose as a similar move from another character. In fact, a faster fireball wouldn't do much more for him that let him spam it. He can already SH->fireball->aerial/waveland/DJ etc, his slow aerial movement stops his from approaching with it from the air anyways, and like most character's projectiles, it sucks when grounded due to lack of mobility. He's already got what he needs with it, which is to be able to move quickly as soon as it ends, letting it end quicker when he uses it airborne won't let him get back down to the ground quicker, which is often a priority for Luigi.

linkbombthing

was talking to a few others about ROB

 

[Vashimus]

I want Charizard to have some of the range on his Dsmash back.

There, I fixed it

 

[Fortress]

@Fortress For future reference... replying with super fragmented quotes like that literally makes me just want to not even bother reading the post

Really? Go ahead and ignore it then, I really don't care. My bad for attempting to keep things neat, tidy, and easy to tell in regards what I'm replying to.

In order of frantic fragmented ugly quote fracturing

In order of ugly wall of text:

I was referring to Link's stab, and not the infinite one. There's a reason you don't see Link mains using it, and that's because there are simply more viable options. I'm not talking about making the attack one of his best, but just something that I'll people who main Link would actually use every once in a while. Link is in a position in most tiers lists that allows him to have those sort of buffs and tweaks.

It's not so much that fighting Nayru's Love is silly, but more that it's silly that I can think I have a hit in only to be swept away from a mile away by the attack. Increase the amount of time before the active frames appear, and give a better visual on where the attack is. Most of the time I'm hit by it, I feel like I'm an entire character width away from Zelda, where there aren't any fancy blue swirls.

Do you want to sit there and tell me that with P:M's shield knockback, and Wolf's size make this move fine? That it's not even a little too much on the strong side with the rest of what he has going for him? I mean, come on, Wolf is practically hiding inside of the hitbox of his attack. I don't see how, even with the endlag compensation, that you can't think the move isn't a little too powerful. Link has high endlag on nearly everything, and nobody's talking about pumping up most of his repertoire.

Not being a ROB main, I don't have that kind of intuition. Which is why I'm saying it'd be nice to have a little more than just a light on his head, like his eyes glowing or something. I'm not sure why you're so staunchly opposed to that. I'm not talking about ramping up the power of the laser, making ROB faster, or doing whatever; I'm just talking about a visual cue.

Having Wario Waft be retained if hit while using it would be a better option than having armor on it, and that makes more sense to me now that you've said it. It gives the opponent a chance to stop the move without completely taking it away from Wario himself.

I'm not saying that Luigi's fireball needs to be lighting fast at all, and the fireball itself is fine. Having Luigi able to act out of it a fraction of time sooner than what he can now is what I was saying I'd like to see at some point in time. The fireball itself is fine, by all accounts.

There. Was the big, bad, ugly wall of text easy enough for you to read?

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm not talking about making the attack one of his best


I'm not talking about ramping up the power of the laser, making ROB faster, or doing whatever; I'm just talking about a visual cue.


I'm not saying that Luigi's fireball needs to be lighting fast at all

This is mildly condescending. I know exactly what you're saying, there's no need to clarify as if you think I don't understand the statement; I would ask if that were the case. But beside that...

Most characters cloak themselves in hitboxes when they attack. That's a Smash Bros. thing, not a wolf's fsmash thing. The move doesn't even have that high knockback anywhere but the sweetspot, which is that large one on the outside that's out prioritized by the smaller one on his hand, making the sweetspot effectively that crescent where the two don't overlap. A lot like Marth's. Worse, probably, considering it doesn't cover above him. At neutral you shouldn't be getting hit by this move because if your opponent won't throw it out due to all that endlag, and being a spacie with endlag isn't a good thing. If you're getting hit by it outside of neutral, chances are it's not the move, it's the fact that you're in a bad position. Like recovering, or during a knockdown/tech chase. Also, comparing Link to wolf is an exercise in futility, the two have nothing in common. You might as well compare either to bowser, and say "Wow these characters are OP, look how fast they are."

If you're not a ROB main, why do you care about changing something that comes with the territory of maining ROB? It's really not that hard to even tell.

For everything else I just say git gud, characters play certain ways, how it works is you learn to work around their move's properties, not ask for changes to them. And yes, that is much less awkward to respond to. It's much less big, bad, ugly, or wall-of-texty than that other thing you did.

You should make this your trademark smiley

 

[PastLink]

let's see here~

+at least one unique character produced from the clone engine
+ bowser getting the entrace audio "IT'S SHOWTIME" from bowser's inside story
+Toonlink having just a slightly easier shorthop window
+ more 3rd strike style taunts. as in, they do SOMETHING useful whether it's visible or not. like increasing knockback once per stock, speed up projectiles per shot, giving the next fired projectile more priority, cool stuff like that. and crazy stuff like stun, break shields etc.
and that's all for now, back to work i go.

EDIT 1:
+more uniquely designed competetive stages, ones that allow for multi tiered stages to exist in tourney play and that aren't all some subtle change up of battle field. (is pokemon stadium legal like in melee?)
+ just remove those explosions center stage and remove some of the more clustered transformations like the trees and brick pyramid and pictochat is pretty much tourney set.
+I'm on board with what people are saying for a different Project M styled HUD, it's not necessary but it would be a nice touch IMO

that's all for now folks.

 

[DrinkingFood]

^Toon Link's short hop window can't be any easier unless they slow down his jump animation, not a good idea.

 

[turtletank]

I just wish the social thread wasn't locked

 

[Fortress]

BEES.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

BEES.

Charmy Bees?

 

[turtletank]

Ha. But I don't think this is helping our case with the mods.

 

[esoterics]

I just want to see Lv9 Falco stop killing himself. It's not even fun to fight him when he's SDing whenever he tries any attack offstage. The AI for him is srsly broken.

 

[UberMario]

While I'm aware we could simply do this just by customizing our mod with downloads, it'd be nice if by default there were two different Project M stage setups that can be installed: one that is competitive and replaces non-tournament-viable stages and one which keeps the current roster for a mix of casual and competitive stages.

For the competitive roster, I was thinking that, in order to keep the asthetics similar to the stages being replaced, for the competitive set they could:

Replace Big Blue with the Falcon Skiff

Spoiler

Although it would be the standard colors done by Mewtwo2000, there just isn't an easy image to obtain of that.

Replace Fourside with Fourside 2

Spoiler

Version without Eyecandy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymhW1yVnMmI
Version with Eyecandy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahSuDRADhJQ

Replace Rainbow Cruise with N64 Princess Peach's Castle

Spoiler

Replace Summit with Project M Summit

Spoiler

Replace Mario Circuit with Alternative Mario Circuit

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRr8ISvNu4Y

Replace Shadow Moses Island with Big Shell [version 3]

Spoiler

In case it's hard to tell from the image itself, the stage is a small flat design with very small, grabbable walls on the side of the platform, the rest is just the background.

Replace Onett with Bowser's Castle (mostly due to the lack of custom EarthBound/Mother stages)

Spoiler

Probably me just being nitpicky, but I know that very few (if any) Project M tournament hosts will actually edit their stage rosters so it'd be nice if there were even more options for that scenario.

 

[Chzrm3]

This thread got crazy!

My main pipedream/wish is that the Clone Engine eventually gets to a place where the brawl vault community can have access to it. I think that'd really be amazing - it'd be so much fun to see all the different characters people would make. To take it a step further, it'd be awesome if we one day removed the cap on how many characters the game could have.

 

[Renji64]

The only thing i do want is a updated HUD/Menu a fresh one with P:Ms design to make feel new would be awesome.

 

[Xermo]

-Tourney viable MOTHER stage (and not that piece of **** cluster**** of a "neutral" Fourside stage with the buildings mashed together.)
-A third MOTHER rep.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

-Tourney viable MOTHER stage (and not that piece of **** cluster**** of a "neutral" Fourside stage with the buildings mashed together.)
-A third MOTHER rep.

I'm ignorant in the Mother franchise, what other character could get in? from what i've read ness already has a bunch of moves from other characters in the game, and lucas too (?)

now that i remember, it'd be great if they could include some tutorial videos on the brawl video feature (what brawl has basically) maybe 5 videos showing basic AT's like WD, l-canceling, DI, WL, etc. i think it would be a great initiative in giving people some info, especially if they are new

oh and, ever since they worked around the clone engine i've got this strange idea that the PM team can now do anything lol, but i would love to see the coders take some time in helping develop AI or else make some new engine for the AI, idk, what i do know is that it would be a blessing for everyone out there that can't go to tourneys and such

 

[Xermo]

I'm ignorant in the Mother franchise, what other character could get in? from what i've read ness already has a bunch of moves from other characters in the game, and lucas too (?)

Yes in smash Ness and Lucas' B Specials comes from PSI attacks used by their partners, but there are still plenty of other characters from the series that are either non-PSI users or have diversity with their PSI, such as Porky, Flint, Masked Man, Poo or Jeff. At this point though, they might as well make the third rep a villain and give it the starfox treatment, meaning Porky or Masked Man (Personally leaning towards Masked Man as he seems to have a much better moveset going for him).

 

[uCooL]

Am i the only one who thinks Donkey Kong should be able to wall jump? his feat are basically hands aren't they?

I also think that his ledge grab box should extend a little higher, he doesn't grab the ledge when his arms are clearly long enough to reach it.

 

[esoterics]

- The removal of Dracula's castle, I want this mostly bc theres not even a catlevania character or trophy (i think) in brawl, and as such it looks unprofessional and makes that one part of PM look like its just some hack, not a full blown community project

If you're like me and enjoy the stage design but think it's a bit off, you could use this: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=29562

 

[Vigilante]

Actually, Smash 4 is not using the Awakening look. It's using the Shadow Dragon remake look. Still, I see no harm in seeing what you guys want, it's stuff we do look at.

 

[moleman915]

I think updated menus would be a great addition.

The brawl ones look very clunky and silly with the big colorful buttons.

I wonder if it would even be possible to add an extra button for Turbo Mode.
It would make selecting it a lot more intuitive, and would give a much more
professional look than activating the feature with in Special Versus.

 

[Fortress]

Oh, oh, I have one. Anybody remember the neat 3D models in Smash64's character select, that did a little pose when you picked them? That would be pretty hype to have. But, I doubt it's even possible.

 

[batistabus]

Dracula's Castle into Luigi's Castle.

More ROB alts for different Nintendo hardware.

A tourney-viable Wind Waker stage. Dose graphics and dat music.

Samus not to be buffed too much.

One completely new character for the Clone Engine.

Everything else I could want is already on the to-do list (characters finished, closer to Melee, shields, etc.).

 

[DrinkingFood]

More ROB alts for different Nintendo hardware.

definitely, we need one for every ROB main
which shouldn't be too hard... there's like 6 of us lol

 

[arcticfox8]

- Tag Out mode. I wanna be able to do crazy marvel switch ins for extreme turbo combos. This Turbo Fox combo not cool enough? Now its a Turbo Marth combo. Look at that, there's Mewtwo. GRAVITY SQUEEZE

 

[Xinc]

- Tag Out mode. I wanna be able to do crazy marvel switch ins for extreme turbo combos. This Turbo Fox combo not cool enough? Now its a Turbo Marth combo. Look at that, there's Mewtwo. GRAVITY SQUEEZE

Kind of like the Dant stream that was mentioned in another thread?

 

[SmashBroski]

Balanced Spear Pillar fit for competitive play.

That's all I WANT NOW.

 

[StevenBeastMode]

Honestly...having Roy playable is all I ever wanted from Project M. However one thing I would like him to have is his Awakening redesign as his alt.

^ This

 

[PastLink]

^Toon Link's short hop window can't be any easier unless they slow down his jump animation, not a good idea.

yeah but falco's got a pretty fast jump and still has an easy short hop window, but. in all honesty i think i can live with it now, just a gripe of mine. won't stop me from mastering the character.

 

[DrinkingFood]

yeah but falco's got a pretty fast jump and still has an easy short hop window,

Falco's jump is not pretty fast, it has a 5 frame jumpstart. Does he move upward fast? Yes, but it takes him a while to get off the ground.

 

[UberAndrew]

Now that it's been confirmed that all characters, turbo mode and alternate costumes are coming in 3.0 the only thing I really want besides general polishing and maybe more new characters is more stages. There are a few codes that can increase the number of stages (the stage expansion code) and the alternate stage loader code, but both of those are generally buggy and some of them are incompatible with Project M. I'd be the happiest girl alive if they perfected those codes and added them to Project M.

If we had both the stage expansion code AND the alternate stage loader code working together at both of their maximum intentional we could have a ridiculous amount of stages. We could have both casual and competitive versions of all Brawl stages, all versions of Final Destination and Battlefield, all Subspace Emissary stages, all past Melee and N64 stages and any other stages. The alternate stage loader code let's you load an alternate version of the stage you select if you hold a button while selecting it, so holding 'L' while selecting Final Destination could load up N64 Final Destination and holding 'R' could load up Melee Final Destination.

The stage selection layout could either be how it is currently with competitive stages being on page and other stages being on page 2 (and possibly 3 and 4) or we could have a page for Brawl stages, Melee stages, N64 stages and SSE stages.

 

[PastLink]

Now that it's been confirmed that all characters, turbo mode and alternate costumes are coming in 3.0 the only thing I really want besides general polishing and maybe more new characters is more stages. There are a few codes that can increase the number of stages (the stage expansion code) and the alternate stage loader code, but both of those are generally buggy and some of them are incompatible with Project M. I'd be the happiest girl alive if they perfected those codes and added them to Project M.

If we had both the stage expansion code AND the alternate stage loader code working together at both of their maximum intentional we could have a ridiculous amount of stages. We could have both casual and competitive versions of all Brawl stages, all versions of Final Destination and Battlefield, all Subspace Emissary stages, all past Melee and N64 stages and any other stages. The alternate stage loader code let's you load an alternate version of the stage you select if you hold a button while selecting it, so holding 'L' while selecting Final Destination could load up N64 Final Destination and holding 'R' could load up Melee Final Destination.

The stage selection layout could either be how it is currently with competitive stages being on page and other stages being on page 2 (and possibly 3 and 4) or we could have a page for Brawl stages, Melee stages, N64 stages and SSE stages.

you madam are a crazy genius, i like it.

on another note. i never got why metaknight's ship is on the competetive page when it's got hazards...

 

[shinhed-echi]

Here goes:


-Sonic using the same moves from Brawl
-Pokemon Trainer returning either as the link between Squivyzard, or as a standalone character with new moves.
-Samus to ZSS transformation through vertical taunts kept intact.
-Samus' charge shot in Ice Mode to cause freezing.
-Samurai Goroh.
-Kongo Jungle


I think that's it for my wishlist.

 

[Generically Epic]

I want Pikachu to use metal tail. I'd like a pichu and young link project m quality texture