PM Fox vs Melee Fox

[foxygrandpa]

In the most recent version, fox's waveshine feels more similar to melee, which I like. But one thing that has been bothering me is his back air. I feel like it hit harder in melee, but it's difficult to tell if its that or the sfx just makes it feel different. Also, falco can act out of shine now even if he is being hit by projectiles during it. Is fox supposed to do the same? Because I tried to test it and it didnt work the same as falcos.

 

[Shadic]

Falco's lack of reflection lag is a glitch, not a feature.

 

[Deco-Nii]

fox just feels different in PM...i tought they would leave fox n falco alone but nooooo

 

[GeZ]

fox just feels different in PM...i tought they would leave fox n falco alone but nooooo

It's actually a byproduct of trying to reshape the Brawl environment (which was Project Melee's basis) back into a Melee environment, and all that entails. No character feels intentionally different unless they are overhauled or changed in some major regard. The changes to Fox and Falco have been minor, it's just the physics and interactions that are not yet just right.

 

[RaynEX]

PM Fox doesn't translate well for me. I'm not a fan of his uthrow and the strange way it interacts with PM character weights. Loved the character for years in Melee but this version doesn't feel right, so I'm going with Pit / Wolf.

 

[Mr.Random]

I'm one of those people that are getting sick of Fox continually getting called overpowered and nerfed each demo considering he isn't dominating tournaments in Melee and PM as frequently. I see Falco, Marth, and Shiek winning more. Fox is without a doubt the best character on paper but the other three mentioned have better results recently.​

 

[Kati]

"Nerfed each demo"...? How was he nerfed from 1.0 to 2.0 or to 2.1? The only change I know of is reflector's invincibility, and the rest as far as I know is just a product of not finalizing the overhaul of brawl's engine. The frame lag on all physics for instance, would have a bigger impact on fast motions that only have 1-3 frames to begin with rather than a larger one correct? Assuming this is right, then fast melee vets do have a legitimate issue atm, but even the frame master m2k is content playing fox in PM.

 

[dRevan64]

M2k likes fox in PM because m2k plays a very basic fox–a precise and really effective fox, but basic. Grabs, uthrows, uairs, usmashes, lasers, nairs. Very simple. The more complex stuff that fox does just doesn't work as well because, like you said, the physics lag makes his shine shenanigans a lot less effective. I enjoy PM but playing fox in this game is a chore, since most of what makes him fun is essentially useless.

 

[Mr.Random]

I appreciate them not nerfing him in 3.0 the ceiling raises hurt everyone so I'm not complaining. Still I want the lasers and shine restored but whatever.

 

[Juker]

I appreciate them not nerfing him in 3.0 the ceiling raises hurt everyone so I'm not complaining. Still I want the lasers and shine restored but whatever.

My only complaint with the ceilings is that fox has a larger reliance on killing through the top blastzone than a lot of characters. For instance, Captain Falcon won't care much that the ceilings are raised, it will only benefit him. There are a lot of other characters that don't care about the ceiling being raised. Granted Fox can kill off the side well, but his up tilt, up air, and up smash are some of his best moves.

 

[Mr.Random]

My only complaint with the ceilings is that fox has a larger reliance on killing through the top blastzone than a lot of characters. For instance, Captain Falcon won't care much that the ceilings are raised, it will only benefit him. There are a lot of other characters that don't care about the ceiling being raised. Granted Fox can kill off the side well, but his up tilt, up air, and up smash are some of his best moves.

Fox can kill Captain Falcon at 120 on a stage with a huge ceiling like Dreamland. It won't affect him that much. He just needs to be Fox for two more hits. Fox is one of the best edgeguarders in the game as well. I've tested the stages with the ceiling raises they only survive for like an extra 5-10% which isn't much at all.

 

[Juker]

Fox can kill Captain Falcon at 120 on a stage with a huge ceiling like Dreamland. It won't affect him that much. He just needs to be Fox for two more hits. Fox is one of the best edgeguarders in the game as well. I've tested the stages with the ceiling raises they only survive for like an extra 5-10% which isn't much at all.

Well, that's good to hear then. I'll just have to start using my blaster a bit more then I have only played around with it a little bit, but I didn't notice a very big difference from what I've seen. that extra 5-10% can add up to a loss, which is a bummer; but probably not too big of a deal.

 

[Mr.Random]

Well, that's good to hear then. I'll just have to start using my blaster a bit more then I have only played around with it a little bit, but I didn't notice a very big difference from what I've seen. that extra 5-10% can add up to a loss, which is a bummer; but probably not too big of a deal.

If you play Fox correctly you'll never lose. Just be fox. Fox doesn't need to combo to win. Practice evasive training with the computers. Evade every attack and then counter. It's pretty fun and challenging. Good way to practice as fox and falcon.

 

[tripwire]

Fox can kill Captain Falcon at 120 on a stage with a huge ceiling like Dreamland. It won't affect him that much. He just needs to be Fox for two more hits. Fox is one of the best edgeguarders in the game as well. I've tested the stages with the ceiling raises they only survive for like an extra 5-10% which isn't much at all.

Fox doesn't need to kill off the top...He just does way to easy usually. Bair and shine is how i get my kills on a high ceiling stage. Be aggressive in your edgeguarding.

 

[Mr.Random]

Fox doesn't need to kill off the top...He just does way to easy usually. Bair and shine is how i get my kills on a high ceiling stage. Be aggressive in your edgeguarding.

Exactly. Another reason I feel the ceilings raises aren't a big deal.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Exactly. Another reason I feel the ceilings raises aren't a big deal.

i haven't been able to play (yet) but i'd like to know from you guys, does fox feel any better/smoother in 3.0 than he did in 2.6? just wanna know bc fox in PM is just not fox haha

 

[tripwire]

I would assume the Melee shields helped.