Please stop playing in a pattern

[Doctor_Mario]

It's a big problem I've seen on Online Mode. Any Ness player I went against have been playing in a certain pattern that is incredibly easy to figure out.

PK FIRE -> GRAB + THROW.

You're probably thinking "Wow, that's incredibly obvious", it does get obvious when you do it for the 300th time, some Ness players do it continuously and since I use a character with a cape, I just reflect it back. Also, the down throw + front aerial is very easy to block against, you just tilt the circle pad to ditch the Ness.

TLDR: Stop playing in a pattern and mix it up. I've beaten nearly all Ness mains i've seen online after seeing this obvious pattern.

 

[Luco]

I'm not really sure what you have to gain by going to the competitive Ness forum and ranting about For Glory Ness players buddy.

It's pretty obvious as to the downfalls of PK Fire, and it's also been calculated what to do should people try to DI and vector it. High level Ness players have more than this up their sleeve. :D

Enjoy beating those FG Ness players. When it comes to tournaments, though, don't be surprised if they show why Ness is more than a few simple tricks.

Sorry if this is something you already know. I don't mean to be rude, it was just a bit of an unexpected post.

 

[blue_flavored]

Also, the down throw + front aeral is very easy to block against, you just tilt the circle pad to ditch the Ness.

What's that? You've beaten some garbage Ness? Congratz, be proud of yourself. Also, if you ever see a good Ness, you might notice that when they grab and down throw you and you don't try to jump out of the fair, they can just run under you and set up for an up smash.

 

[blue_flavored]

Oh and if you want to see how a good Ness will play, go watch FOW. I'm not saying we all play like him, but good Ness's usually plays aggressive and doesn't camp with PK Fire.

 

[Duplighost]

What's that? You've beaten some garbage Ness? Congratz, be proud of yourself.

...Well, okay then.

Also, if you ever see a good Ness, you might notice that when they grab and down throw you and you don't try to jump out of the fair, they can just run under you and set up for an up smash.

I've never seen a Ness do this, because they primarily stick to the PK Fire -> Grab -> Throw, like it has been stated above.
But since you didn't use jump to escape the f-airs, you could technically jump away, correct? I might start experimenting with Ness to see exactly what one can do after PK Fire.

But PK Fire on its own isn't to great of a move, with pretty long lag, and it can be reflected or absorbed.

 

[blue_flavored]

...Well, okay then.

I've never seen a Ness do this, because they primarily stick to the PK Fire -> Grab -> Throw, like it has been stated above.
But since you didn't use jump to escape the f-airs, you could technically jump away, correct? I might start experimenting with Ness to see exactly what one can do after PK Fire.

But PK Fire on its own isn't to great of a move, with pretty long lag, and it can be reflected or absorbed.

The only move Ness uses that SHOULD be expected is PK Thunder. If used right PK Fire is a good tool, sometime characters can jump out of it depending on their percent, sometimes they can't do anything. You can use PK Fire to set up for a grab, foward smash, dash attack, another PK Fire, or you can use it for spacing. A lot of people hate on PK Fire but if you're not spamming and not being obvious with it, it's a good tool.

 

[PKBeam]

1. stop trying to steer us away from throw comboes.
this is like telling diddy players to stop doing Dthrow -> Uair.
Ness' comboes are legit and it's his main source of damage.

2. if you're complaining about PKF spam don't do it here because we're not scrubs.
why don't I post in the boards of everyone with a counter "stop trying to spam counter on landing because i can charge a smash, I have beaten many [insert plural character here] on for glory because of this"?

because FG isn't an accurate representation of character boards so stop treating it like it is.

i'm hoping this is going to get locked but it probably isn't. oh well.

 

[Meccs]

hahahahaha

 

[Link24a]

not everyone does that. just because dumb for glory players do it doesnt mean we do

i opt for that combo sometimes, but ill admit i get a little spammy with his nair... which is an issue

 

[Duplighost]

1. stop trying to steer us away from throw comboes.
this is like telling diddy players to stop doing Dthrow -> Uair.
Ness' comboes are legit and it's his main source of damage.

2. if you're complaining about PKF spam don't do it here because we're not scrubs.
why don't I post in the boards of everyone with a counter "stop trying to spam counter on landing because i can charge a smash, I have beaten many [insert plural character here] on for glory because of this"?

because FG isn't an accurate representation of character boards so stop treating it like it is.

i'm hoping this is going to get locked but it probably isn't. oh well.

I see what you're saying, but... the main issue I see with the whole "PK Fire -> Down Throw -> Aerial" nonsense is that almost every Ness player does that. It just gets a little redundant seeing everyone play follow the leader with each other, so it lessens the diversity on For Glory. I'm not complaining, "Awh, Ness players, stop doing that", but I feel a lot more could be done with Ness as a whole. Granted, there are better players out there who use unique combos rather than the obvious one stated on this thread.

But let's not give Ness all the hate, guys... I think we need to discover a Diddy Kong player who doesn't spam Down Throw -> Up Air... that's the real issue. Besides, PK Fire can be reflected and avoid, unlike the insane advantage Diddy has with his bananas and speed, and little lag on top of it.

 

[Earthbound360]

I see what you're saying, but... the main issue I see with the whole "PK Fire -> Down Throw -> Aerial" nonsense is that almost every Ness player does that. It just gets a little redundant seeing everyone play follow the leader with each other, so it lessens the diversity on For Glory. I'm not complaining, "Awh, Ness players, stop doing that", but I feel a lot more could be done with Ness as a whole. Granted, there are better players out there who use unique combos rather than the obvious one stated on this thread.

I've never understood this mentality. Why should I use a weaker combo? For diversity? It's called a BnB for a reason.

If there are 2 combos, one that does 10 damage, and one that does 9, why would I realistically EVER go for the one that does 9? If I'm trying to win, I'm going for the first combo every time. Screw diversity. You play your best, and I'll play my best. I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm not going to sacrifice my own damage just to make you feel better.

 

[Link24a]

If there are 2 combos, one that does 10 damage, and one that does 9, why would I realistically EVER go for the one that does 9? If I'm trying to win, I'm going for the first combo every time. Screw diversity. You play your best, and I'll play my best. I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm not going to sacrifice my own damage just to make you feel better.

That makes sense but if the combo that does 9 is safer or is part of a mixup that the opponent doesn't read then the 9 damage would be better. I agree with your point though

 

[Duplighost]

I've never understood this mentality. Why should I use a weaker combo? For diversity? It's called a BnB for a reason.

If there are 2 combos, one that does 10 damage, and one that does 9, why would I realistically EVER go for the one that does 9? If I'm trying to win, I'm going for the first combo every time. Screw diversity. You play your best, and I'll play my best. I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm not going to sacrifice my own damage just to make you feel better.

Sorry, let me restate what I was saying... I understand your perspective, and yeah, of course you'd go for the better combo. But let's say you're in a tournament battling someone. If you always use that exact same combo over and over again, the opponent will expect it and naturally DI or jump out of it. That goes for any character, but as for Ness, the combo we've been concerning in this thread is highly predictable with the lack of diversity we have in For Glory (and not just for Ness, but for everyone). My main point is that everybody needs to change up their game, not just to "make me feel better," but to better their chances of winning themselves. Again, I agree with what you said, but using other combos besides the easily-escapable and monotonous PK Fire -> Down Throw one would actually make you a better player, despite another combo doing 9 damage over 10.

 

[Earthbound360]

If I land PK Fire then grab is the most damaging follow up. If I land the grab, fair is potentially the greatest damage follow up too. That's why you see it so much.

 

[Pazx]

this is such a bad thread

 

[KyroChao]

^

I've never understood this mentality. Why should I use a weaker combo? For diversity? It's called a BnB for a reason.

If there are 2 combos, one that does 10 damage, and one that does 9, why would I realistically EVER go for the one that does 9? If I'm trying to win, I'm going for the first combo every time. Screw diversity. You play your best, and I'll play my best. I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm not going to sacrifice my own damage just to make you feel better.

Well there is DI and stale moves to consider. Everything i was going to say has been state though

 

[Galaxian]

"STOP USING IT" they say, as they get hit by it.

C'mon, man.

EDIT:

Y'know while I'm at you're a Luigi main. All the Luigis I'VE faced just go for Grabs into Fairs. It's incredibly obvious and I've beaten every Luigi that does it :^)))

 

[PKBeam]

Stale moves aren't as prominent as in Brawl, and it doesn't worry Ness' comboes.
After PKF, risking the small chance of getting grabbed or w/e for an almost guaranteed 25% combo is a pretty good risk to take.

Also, what exactly is bad about us always doing Fair comboes after Dthrow?

• The ability of an opponent to punish us if they know we're going to do it?
• The ability of an opponent to simply airdodge out of it every single time we try it?
• The opportunity to use Ness' better, stronger, more reliable comboes?

 

[Doctor_Mario]

I've never said stop using those specific combos even if this thread implied so. I'm just trying to suggest that I recommend Ness mains to mix up their bag of techniques and to not rely so heavily on those combos. I haven't gone against any good Ness mains (supposedly because I have a win rate of 62 percent), but I was just using information that I already knew. And because PK Fire makes you so vulnerable to your opponent, I wasn't trying to make this a "hate ness" thread, honest.

@ Galaxian Good for you, it really doesn't bother me if you can escape Luigi's down+f_air or not, go rant to the Luigi section about that combo.

 

[Link24a]

@ Galaxian Good for you, it really doesn't bother me if you can escape Luigi's down+f_air or not, go rant to the Luigi section about that combo.

He said pretty much exactly what you were saying though

 

[Galaxian]

@ Galaxian Good for you, it really doesn't bother me if you can escape Luigi's down+f_air or not, go rant to the Luigi section about that combo.

Why would I go to the character board to say "STOP USING A COMBO"?

Listen buddy as predictable as it is Ness doesn't really have much else to convert from for PK Fire. What else do you want me to do? Run up and Fsmash you?

Christ, give it a break. If it's predictable, it's predictable. Lots of setups in this game are. HOO HAH, Mario's utilt ****, etc.

Tell me then, what can I do from PK Fire other than grab or Fsmash at really close range?

 

[Link24a]

Tell me then, what can I do from PK Fire other than grab or Fsmash at really close range?

Nair is incredibly safe and I use it when I'm unsure of whether the opponent will roll out or not

 

[Galaxian]

Nair is incredibly safe and I use it when I'm unsure of whether the opponent will roll out or not

You know the statement I'm trying to make. This'll be handy though, thanks.

 

[Uffe]

If you're worried about every Ness using PKF > d-throw > aerial, then you've already conditioned yourself. By the way, PKF > d-throw > fair is a 13 hit combo that deals 21%. I'm going to use it if I can.

 

[Manbeartigerphoenix]

Bad Ness players rely on only PKF and grabs. Ness' true strength has always been his excellent air game. The entire purpose of the PKF > dthrow is to setup an opponent into Ness' aerial territory.

You don't even need to have a reflector at all for PKF. PKF is a terrible move to spam predictably, a simple walkup shield has beaten it since day one. PKF causes very little shieldstun and the endlag of PKF leaves Ness vulnerable to all sorts of oos options. Also a simple approaching SH aerial will beat it too since PKF's bolt travels very close along the ground.

 

[Duplighost]

HOO HAH

Can someone explain to me what this is, exactly?

Tell me then, what can I do from PK Fire other than grab or Fsmash at really close range?

I'm not a Ness main, but I have found that his up-air is actually pretty strong (around 13 damage if I remember correctly). It can also juggle opponents pretty well, but if anyone has lots of experience with Ness, I think you could do a lot with it. Ness' neutral game is great in general, but up-air can also be used as a kill move at higher percents.

 

[Link24a]

Can someone explain to me what this is, exactly?

a meme started at paragon when hungrybox was fighting a diddy. every time he would land dthrow>up air someone in thr crowd would say "HOO HAH" , it then quickly caught on

 

[Duplighost]

a meme started at paragon when hungrybox was fighting a diddy. every time he would land dthrow>up air someone in thr crowd would say "HOO HAH" , it then quickly caught on

Okay, thanks.
Does "HOOH HAH" apply just to Diddy, or to anyone who executes Down Throw -> Up Air?

 

[Link24a]

Okay, thanks.
Does "HOOH HAH" apply just to Diddy, or to anyone who executes Down Throw -> Up Air?

just diddy https://youtu.be/yB-6oRB4ABo

 

[Uffe]

Bad Ness players rely on only PKF and grabs. Ness' true strength has always been his excellent air game. The entire purpose of the PKF > dthrow is to setup an opponent into Ness' aerial territory.

You don't even need to have a reflector at all for PKF. PKF is a terrible move to spam predictably, a simple walkup shield has beaten it since day one. PKF causes very little shieldstun and the endlag of PKF leaves Ness vulnerable to all sorts of oos options. Also a simple approaching SH aerial will beat it too since PKF's bolt travels very close along the ground.

I think people underestimate PKF. I'm not going to deny that it's a pretty crappy special, but it can be well-spaced to where you're not punished. This is why I wish PKF worked on shields like Robin's Elfire. And correct, reflectors aren't necessary to punish PKF. In fact, I've gone against some who would switch to a character with a reflector and baited a reflector only to punish them with an aerial. Sometimes grabs are needed because some opponents know to stay out of the air. So I'd like to know how you're getting your opponents into the air without a grab and when they're not cooperating. I know there are plenty of attacks Ness can use to get his opponents into the air, but what about those who block those attacks that set them up for an aerial?

 

[Link24a]

I think people underestimate PKF. I'm not going to deny that it's a pretty crappy special, but it can be well-spaced to where you're not punished. This is why I wish PKF worked on shields like Robin's Elfire. And correct, reflectors aren't necessary to punish PKF. In fact, I've gone against some who would switch to a character with a reflector and baited a reflector only to punish them with an aerial. Sometimes grabs are needed because some opponents know to stay out of the air. So I'd like to know how you're getting your opponents into the air without a grab and when they're not cooperating. I know there are plenty of attacks Ness can use to get his opponents into the air, but what about those who block those attacks that set them up for an aerial?

Pkf isn't even a bad move. Just don't use it at close range and you're good

 

[Gunla]

Closed by request.