Playing against Falcon

[FrankDaTank]

I know Sheik is supposed to win pretty hard against Falcon, but it seems like sometimes I'll just have really big trouble with it. Falcon's aerial and ground mobility is just insane compared to Sheik's and even though I get really good down throw tech chases and forward and up air combos going on, because he seems to live soooo long unless I gimp him, what am I supposed to do?

I've tried nairing out of shield and it works sometimes but if Falcon spaces himself properly then that doesn't work. If he hits me with a nair, then I get grabbed, and if I get grabbed around 100%, up throw knee seems to be inescapable. Plus, if I tech the wrong way then I get down air kneed or up aired over and over again and it's just extremely frustrating to die at 80% because I can't do anything about the up air nonsense while he lives to 150% or something.

Sometimes I'll utterly destroy the Falcon I'm playing against in this matchup, and other times I'll just get so overwhelmed by his speed and the fact that they're reading every which way I'm rolling and teching that I'll choke super hard and lose because...well, it's Falcon.

Any advice, please? I'd really like some help with this matchup, a I want to get better and it and I feel like it should be easier than it is for me.

 

[Scroll]

My first advice is: Unlearn that you're supposed to win because the MU says so.

For comboing I advice against extending your combos upwards. If you get that DA punish then take the Fair or Downsmash. If you extend with Upair, yes you put on more damage but you also give him a way better chance at surviving.

For edgeguarding don't take Ledge unless you're sure he has no other option. Covering the "higher" UpB + Fadeback, every falcon does, is not possible if you hang from the ledge. So stand on the edge of the stage and act as late as possible. If you commit too early to your edge guard he can oftentimes avoid it.

Shielding against falcon is generally not a good thing. It's better to: Ftilt, preempty Dash jump Nair or move in the same neutral scenarios.

Getting tech chased: There is one discipline that is really good here and that is to DI and Tech independantly. If you cannot split these two then it's super easy to tell where you're going.

closing words, the MU is not easy. It demands work. You gotto stay honest and efficient. For the untrained eye winning with sheik looks simple and easy, but it really isn't. Don't get discouraged. And feel free to come back with more specific quetions

I hope that was the kind of advice you were looking for.

 

[FrankDaTank]

Thanks for the

My first advice is: Unlearn that you're supposed to win because the MU says so.

For comboing I advice against extending your combos upwards. If you get that DA punish then take the Fair or Downsmash. If you extend with Upair, yes you put on more damage but you also give him a way better chance at surviving.

For edgeguarding don't take Ledge unless you're sure he has no other option. Covering the "higher" UpB + Fadeback, every falcon does, is not possible if you hang from the ledge. So stand on the edge of the stage and act as late as possible. If you commit too early to your edge guard he can oftentimes avoid it.

Shielding against falcon is generally not a good thing. It's better to: Ftilt, preempty Dash jump Nair or move in the same neutral scenarios.

Getting tech chased: There is one discipline that is really good here and that is to DI and Tech independantly. If you cannot split these two then it's super easy to tell where you're going.

closing words, the MU is not easy. It demands work. You gotto stay honest and efficient. For the untrained eye winning with sheik looks simple and easy, but it really isn't. Don't get discouraged. And feel free to come back with more specific quetions

I hope that was the kind of advice you were looking for.

Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely have to start implementing more forward tilts and I guess more movement and mixing up my teching would be a good idea too.

I do have a few specific questions:

1. I've heard CC grabbing, forward tilting, dash attacking, etc. is good against Falcon, particularly his nair, but what if my opponent decides to approach with a knee or down air?

2. When I'm forced to tech on a platform, what should I do? Tech in place, left, right? I don't imagine there's much I can do but maybe I'm missing something.

3. What about when I'm forced to shield? It seems like Falcon is just so damn fast he can cover rolls like nobody's business, even Sheik's rolls.

4. Would you advise dash dancing in this matchup? It seems to work pretty well against Falcon in this matchup, at least the Falcon's I play against.

5. What do I do when Falcon lands behind me with an aerial like a down air, nair, etc?

6. If Falcon decides to stall on the ledge while I'm waiting for him to make a move to come back on, should I just try and steal the edge from him?

 

[Scroll]

1. CC is excellent in the MU. If the Falcon is unawave you can CC grab the nair at low percents. If he is, he will most likely stick to safer options untill you're out of CC percents (such as spacing back airs -> dash out or knee roll out etc).
You can only CC knee at 0% after that you need to be moving.
What I like to do is to dash forward into shield to mess up his spacing. Then Nair OoS, FJ WL onto platforms, WD OoS, SH rising needle storm, Rising Bair OoS or any other good option depending on what he choose after the Knee.
WD Back Ftilt is also amazing.
Dash WD to cover ground quickly while staying in control is also amazing.
If he reads those he can overshoot and hit you anyway since, as you noticed, his ground and aerial mobility is godlike.
Mixing up your good options is key.
Knee takes a while to become active so doing the preempty dash Sh Rising Nair will stuff Knee.

Stomp is not something I can comment alot on. But I am pretty sure you can just shield grab it.

2. Any tech option is fine besides maybe tech roll to the same side you already landed on But sometimes even that is good.
If you have a decent momentum landing on the edge a platform or the stage you can choose not to tech and just slide off (It's pretty sick)
IMPORTANT -> Keep in mind that there are some "obvious" options when it comes to teching. You need to conciously choose an option and not let your hands choose for themselves to beat falling in this "trap". Falcon is the king of reading. So if he picks up on a habbit he can get so much mileage off of that (well just like any character can, but I think you can picture what he will do if he knows what you're gonna do).
Some examples of the obvious options are: Techrolling to the other side of the platform. Techrolling towards center of stage when near the ledge. Rolling towards the opponent after missed tech. Spamming getup attack after missed tech.
Rolling towards center of stage when caught in shield near the ledge. And teching in the same direction as you DI'ed.

3. Deal with it. Falcon is fast. Control youself and don't roll. Or at least time it better if you REALLY wanna roll
(After Falcon committed to any move - NOT when he is passive/ ready).

4. Yes I advice DD. But moreso keeping mobile. You can only incorporate DD if you know how to control and act optimally out of it.
I think most people would say: Don't DD just shoot standing needle and Ftilt his Nair. If Falcon knows you will stand still and shoot standing needles it's very easy for him to jump over it and knee your face in. Needles are LAGGY! But still godly.
What else is godly? Walk, WD Back and Dash WD. Mix in DD with those things and you're hella mobile.
Why mobile? To mess with spacing thus opening him up to whiff punishing on top of your amazing CC and stuffing abilities.

5. You concider his options and react. Behind and infront are 1 frame apart. So your options are nearly identical if you know how to Smash Turn. I'd say turn around and grab his Lcancel. Pummel. Downthrow.

6. Nope. You can signal/ act as if you are going there. But don't blindly commit to that. Another good options is to store a few needles from a safe distance. But mainly stay passive and alert

 

[FrankDaTank]

1. CC is excellent in the MU. If the Falcon is unawave you can CC grab the nair at low percents. If he is, he will most likely stick to safer options untill you're out of CC percents (such as spacing back airs -> dash out or knee roll out etc).
You can only CC knee at 0% after that you need to be moving.
What I like to do is to dash forward into shield to mess up his spacing. Then Nair OoS, FJ WL onto platforms, WD OoS, SH rising needle storm, Rising Bair OoS or any other good option depending on what he choose after the Knee.
WD Back Ftilt is also amazing.
Dash WD to cover ground quickly while staying in control is also amazing.
If he reads those he can overshoot and hit you anyway since, as you noticed, his ground and aerial mobility is godlike.
Mixing up your good options is key.
Knee takes a while to become active so doing the preempty dash Sh Rising Nair will stuff Knee.

Stomp is not something I can comment alot on. But I am pretty sure you can just shield grab it.

2. Any tech option is fine besides maybe tech roll to the same side you already landed on But sometimes even that is good.
If you have a decent momentum landing on the edge a platform or the stage you can choose not to tech and just slide off (It's pretty sick)
IMPORTANT -> Keep in mind that there are some "obvious" options when it comes to teching. You need to conciously choose an option and not let your hands choose for themselves to beat falling in this "trap". Falcon is the king of reading. So if he picks up on a habbit he can get so much mileage off of that (well just like any character can, but I think you can picture what he will do if he knows what you're gonna do).
Some examples of the obvious options are: Techrolling to the other side of the platform. Techrolling towards center of stage when near the ledge. Rolling towards the opponent after missed tech. Spamming getup attack after missed tech.
Rolling towards center of stage when caught in shield near the ledge. And teching in the same direction as you DI'ed.

3. Deal with it. Falcon is fast. Control youself and don't roll. Or at least time it better if you REALLY wanna roll
(After Falcon committed to any move - NOT when he is passive/ ready).

4. Yes I advice DD. But moreso keeping mobile. You can only incorporate DD if you know how to control and act optimally out of it.
I think most people would say: Don't DD just shoot standing needle and Ftilt his Nair. If Falcon knows you will stand still and shoot standing needles it's very easy for him to jump over it and knee your face in. Needles are LAGGY! But still godly.
What else is godly? Walk, WD Back and Dash WD. Mix in DD with those things and you're hella mobile.
Why mobile? To mess with spacing thus opening him up to whiff punishing on top of your amazing CC and stuffing abilities.

5. You concider his options and react. Behind and infront are 1 frame apart. So your options are nearly identical if you know how to Smash Turn. I'd say turn around and grab his Lcancel. Pummel. Downthrow.

6. Nope. You can signal/ act as if you are going there. But don't blindly commit to that. Another good options is to store a few needles from a safe distance. But mainly stay passive and alert

Wow, that's a lot of useful info, thanks a lot! I'll definitely have to start using a lot of this in my matches against Falcon, thanks! Greatly appreciated