Platform canceled PK Fire - useful or eye candy?

[DD151]

i think edge canceled pk fire was mentioned somewhere in the ness guide, and after watching some phanna videos i played around with edge canceled pk fires on pokemon stadium. they're pretty **** hard to do consistently, and if done too early the fire doesn't come out (although ness still yells out "PK Fire!").

given the limited range of pk fire and the fact that it only travels diagonally downward, i doubt this would be very useful since it can only be aimed at certain places in order for it to be canceled. however, the thought of doing pk fire with no ending lag is pretty appealing, especially since that the terrible ending lag is half the reason why pk fire really isn't used at all.

above all else, i think it makes a good taunt =/

 

[Ademisk]

It's useful if you can bait the enemy. But...it's not neccessary. I think Simna has said this before, I and I reiterate it, the PK Fire is good if you know when to use it. I use it a lot, just get used to aiming mid-air PK Fires into a jumping enemy and you're golden.

 

[DD151]

you're always putting yourself at risk when you pk fire though, mostly because you're completely vulnerable if it misses. platform canceling removes this risk since you can act right after the fire comes out; therefore, you're able to throw it around more. i'm not saying that this is spammable either, but in certain situations it's better than just doing nothing.

i see your point that there are certain times when pk fire can be used, but i think platform canceling can create more of these opportunities. of course, this is just speculation, since i doubt any ness player can platform cancel pk fire very consistently in an actual match.

 

[Ademisk]

No, you're not putting yourself in danger every time. You're only in danger if you miss. Platform cancelling is okay, but it's mostly useless, and the situations where it is useful is...well...small, mostly due to the small range and the punishment if you fail the platform cancel.

 

[Levitas]

lol, any move with lag puts you in danger. As far as risk managment goes, pk fire is a high risk high yield move, meaning it leaves you wide open if you miss and leaves them wide open if you hit because of the large amount of time it takes for them to break free. By platform cancelling, it reduces the risk while maintaining the yield.

As another example, DJC fair as an approach is medium/high yield and low risk. This is because the fair sets up for a grab combo=> high yield. Additionally, it has very little lag. Since it's both high yield and low risk, the fair is a good move.

 

[Ademisk]

platform cancelling does not reduce the risk because it's a difficult maneuver to pull off. And the yield is actually reduced due to the limited range and variety of situations in which you can platform cancel the attack. IN addition, PK Fire isn't a HIGH yield move, it's just a way to get your opponent out of place, it opens up an approach which is generally difficult for Ness.

 

[thesage]

Pk fire IC's projectile!!!! Just putting that out there.

 

[kenny10]

Plus if your going to hit them with the PK Fire and edge-cancel it, they would have to be pretty close to you and by then, a fair or whatever would be a better choice than PK Fire.

 

[Ademisk]

OMG, PK Fire > ICs. It just keeps going and going, and Nana's on fire, and then Popo is, then they both are, then Nana DIs into Popo so when he gets out of fire, you hit her with it and it hits them both again...it's just so beautiful.

Also, I was mistaken about what you mean by platform canceled PK Fire. Are you just talking about PK Firing so that you PK Fire off the edge of the platform and then land directly after? I thought you meant some kind of crazy **** like Samus's platform canceled missiles. No, platform canceled PK Fires are pretty basic. Look at the record Target Test under the video archive, that's a good place to practice double jump canceled ledge canceled PK Fires. I use them for Edeguarding too, it's hard for someone who's on fire to dodge a bat.

 

[toasty]

am I the only one who's never been able to edgecancel a PK fire? and does it have to be a platform or can it be any edge? pretty sure it can be any edge...I've tried and tried and could never get it any rule of thumb that anyone's aware of? Hahaha, I can see my crazya.ss trying a ledgehop reverse ledgecancelled PKfire bat, esp against a Ganon/CF since the threat of an edgehog will force them to recover onto the stage...
ugh...me and my stupid impossible ideas ;__;

 

[DD151]

Are you just talking about PK Firing so that you PK Fire off the edge of the platform and then land directly after? I thought you meant some kind of crazy **** like Samus's platform canceled missiles. No, platform canceled PK Fires are pretty basic. Look at the record Target Test under the video archive, that's a good place to practice double jump canceled ledge canceled PK Fires. I use them for Edeguarding too, it's hard for someone who's on fire to dodge a bat.

it's not possible to cancel a pk fire like samus's missiles; i wish it were...

i was referring to using them for more than just edgeguarding though. i personally like running around pokemon stadium and doing it across the platforms there; it's easier to aim it into the center compared to the other platform stages

 

[Ademisk]

Toasy, watch the video I mentioned. It's easy, learn the timing, learn when to start, where to start, and it becomes second nature. PK Fire is a powerful ally when mastered. Nobody ever freaking expects it to work. Hitting with it is easy though, nothing to it. The hard part is...WTF DO I DO NOW!?

 

[Levitas]

DJC Bair or bat if they are spacies or the esteemed captain. The hard part for me is hitting w/ the pk fire, lol.

 

[Ademisk]

It's not enough, bat misses too often, fair is too easy to get off, it's certainly not worth going for the effort of the PK Fire just for a DjC. I've had some success dairing people back into the PK Fire and then following up from there, and I've been working on PK Firing someone, then PK Firing them again while I approach, giving me more time to hit them with a strong bair. Grabs also work, since it continues to hurt them while you're bashing them in the face, and then you can throw them.

 

[DD151]

with the ending lag, it's kind of hard to follow up a pk fire... so i normally go for a grab, fair or uair

 

[Ademisk]

Theres not enough lag if you do it right. An air PK Fire into a DJC PK Fire, into a DJC bair works pretty well, since you don't have to worry about their counter if they don't DI immediately, so you can PK Fire right in front of their wierd looking faces.

 

[kenny10]

Lol. We should make an entire thread titled "Mindgames with PK Fire".