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PKTB Could Still Exist!? Footage Available!

Gindler

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
2,442
Location
Orlando (UCF)
Hmmm, did he maybe reflect it back at you with the bat? I never knew this existed in the first place so i'm just wildly guessing.
 

J Tangle

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
41
NNID
JTangle
so?... Isn't that simply him reversing PKT with the bat before it left your body?
 

Jono

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
133
PKTB - PK Thunder Barrier.

If you are interrupted by your opponent's attack while casting PK Thunder, you can be hit with your own PK Thunder. This is what that is. With PK Thunder's knockback that cancels the bat's potential KO, Earthbound360 had survived. Earthbound360 did not in anyway direct his PK Thunder towards the bat, since he was attempting a recover.

Here, Quote from Earthbound360's guide, for those of you who did not read up on Melee(Let alone play Ness):
EarthBound360 said:
#PKT Barrier (#PKTB)**** or *****: A pretty tough one here. This basic ability of this maneuver is to cancel all knockback of any attack. Remember, this can only be done in early versions of the game. In these versions, if something is to happen to Ness that would disturb his PKT incantation (like getting hit, or KOed), he would lose control of the bolt, and it would be able to hurt himself. To do this, you would take an enemies blow while casting PKT, lose control of it, and let yourself get hit with your lost PKT. The PKT has very little knockback, so getting hit by it would actually SAVE you from high knockback attacks. But note that PKT does not come out as quickly as a shield, so you will have to PKT ahead of time with good reflex. Also, remember that you are taking damage from both your opponent’s attack, and your own, meaning you will sustain high damage, so only use this for recovery defense, blocking aerially, or if you know that you can land a finishing move or combo. There are reasons why you would want to use this:

In the air, your only other defense is airdodge, but that leaves you helpless afterwards making it bad for recovery, or if you are high up in the air in which the enemy can attack you again.

If you want to prevent shieldstun and knockback in the shield so you could land a grab or some other short ranged attack.

There are some attacks you shouldn’t PKTB. Multi-hitting attacks like drill kicks and tornadoes because PKTB only blocks one hit. Very weak moves like jabs and blasters because they have just about as little knockback as the PKT, and are not worth blocking with PKTB. Lag less, or very small lag attacks like the shine since they can attack you even after you have PKTBed. Finally, very close range moves like rest because your PKT will end up hitting the foe, causing little knockback upon them, and allowing them to punish your lag. There are many types of PKTB categorized in different ways:

______________________________________________

Based on Position of PKT

PKTB Static: This is one of the two versions of PKTB. Static PKTB is when you PKTB and the thunder is just coming out of Ness’ head. This is often done with reflex, and most often leads to a PKTB with the tail, but can lead to PKTB with the head.

PKTB Remote: This is another version of PKTB. To do this, have someone hit you while the thunderbolt is behind you. This is sometimes done by accident while one is trying to recover with Ness. They ring it around back and get hit into the thunder that they were originally trying to use for PKT2.

Based on Hitbox of PKT

PKTB Head: This is a type of PKTB categorized by where Ness hits the loose PKT. When you lose control of PKT, Ness can hit the head or the tail. This depends on when you are hit, and how you DI. When you hit the head, Ness will pop up. This is best used for recovery purposes.

PKTB Tail: This type of PKTB is most often used since it is the easiest. It consists of you getting hit with the tail of the PKT. This is also best used for PKTB Counter (see next section). This is used because it causes very little knockback, allowing another action.

______________________________________________

Reccomendations
Recovery: The only time you would really want to PKTB without countering is in recovery. During recovery, a PKTB with the head is best since it pops you up. Static is better too since it means no movement from the original position.
Samus: AUGH! Projectiles galore. You can’t always airdodge around these since you are offstage, so PKTB them instead.
Marth: Just like Samus except for his 10 mile long sword.
General: In recovery, use this on characters that edgeguard with strong edgeguarding game that you can’t airdodge around.
 

Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
2,185
Location
Toronto
I think the PKT was hit by the bat right as PKT left his body, and, when the bat reflected it, it was still around his hitbox, so it hit him.

Pretend I have a dog that I'm going to tell to attack someone. I'm holding it in my arms, about to put it down to chase down my enemy. If my enemy shoots a dart into my dog that turns the dog into an evil mutt, it will begin to chew my chest into shreds.
That's exactly what happened here with PKT. He thought PKT was his friend, but the bat turned the bolt against his creator and, since the bolt was already on Ness's hitbox, it got an immediate hit.










No dog owners were harmed in the testing of this post's analogy.
 

SenorWaffles

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
20
Location
Hyrule Temple, NYC
its hard to tell from the vid but what i remember in the match was that i hit the pkt with the bat. but looking at the vid it seems like i also gave your ribs a treat so maybe it is pktb.

good thing i recorded those matches ^_^

(ego +3)
 

Masky

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
3,665
To be fair it is kinda a PKTB, because the PK Thunder did act as a barrier since it looked like Ness was hit with the bat also. But a useless PKTB since it would only work against attacks that reflect projectiles like Ness's bat. Maybe a possible shine spike counter?
 

Earthbound360

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
5,725
Location
Bowie, MD
NNID
Mikman360
pktb?

if you dont mind
Man... I give up. NO ONE read that gigantic guide I put so much work into!
:cry:

And thanks Jono. Just call me EB360. Its easier to type and look 1337!

Conda, you need to stop being so funny. You're killing my diaphragm or whatever that thing is that makes people laugh. Its getting tired :laugh::psycho:

And yeah, after looking at the vid again, that's probably what happened. Well, like Masky said, at least it could be a possible shine spike counter.
 

Tyr_03

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,805
Location
OH
I am almost 100% sure that this is PKTB instead of just the bat reflecting the thunder and having it hit you.

I recently realized while doing some testing with Lucas that when a PKT1 hits an object the head disappears slightly slower than the tail. It is reasonable to assume that the head also disappears slower than the tail when PKT1 is interrupted which is why when I was testing PKTB with the tail it would never work and why it did work in the situation.

Ness's PKT1 when it hits an opponent has knockback in the opposite direction of its motion. This means that when the thunder hit you in the video, since you were knocked left, must have been moving to the right.

The bat when reflecting a PKT1 ALWAYS reflects the thunder in the exact opposite direction that it was moving in.

It is reasonable to assume that you were sending your thunder to the right to hit yourself back into the ledge when you were hit. Had the bat hit the thunder and reflected it, the thunder would have reversed direction and giving you knockback to the right rather than the left. What did indeed happen is you were hit with the bat into your own thunder which then knocked you back onto the stage. To me this confirms PKTB for Brawl. It would be even better if we could test it with other attacks to be absolutely positive.

Unfortunately since the head disappears so fast it seems like it has to be practically on top of you to work.
 

Earthbound360

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
5,725
Location
Bowie, MD
NNID
Mikman360
That's a good way of thinking about it Tyr, unfortunately, I WASNT trying to hit myself back on, meaning the PKT did not wanna go to the right, but to the left instead.

I was trying to do the PKT ledgestall and hit waffles away.

:(
 
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