The 0ne
Smash Journeyman
I just hope Lucas's PK Freeze is better.
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PK flash uses
- Thread starter anas abou
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Earthbound360
Smash Hero
I don't think it's possible to make a move worse than this.
Except for Sing.
Manbeartigerphoenix
Smash Apprentice
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At least sing can be ledge-canceled into anything, PK Flash has nothing.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Shield breaks below 30%
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PKBeam
Smash Lord
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i really doubt flash kills before 45%.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
That's the point.
PKT2 kills before PK Flash, but nothing Ness has KO's below 30%. PK Flash outdamages PKT2.
So if you break a shield below 30%, do PK Flash for damage.
If you break it past 30%, PKT2 for the KO.
PKBeam
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won't a well placed PKF (right on top of them) converted into a Dthrow Triple Fair do... what, like 40% or more?
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Earthbound360
Smash Hero
I mean, assuming you want to take a risk with a combo like that which can possibly be DI'd and leave you in a dangerous position (as in off the stage, next to the opponent with no DJ), then potentially. I'd rather stick with the low risk full PK Flash which would do at most like 5% less.
Lukingordex
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If you manage to hit them with sing before ledge-cancelling it you have a guaranted rest
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Mirax96
Smash Rookie
I usually use it when they're coming back to the stage.
I place myself on a certain distance to the ledge, the roll-recovery distance, then start to perform the move. After grabbing the ledge, the opponent will instinctively roll to get as close to me as possible to attack me before the move is finished... Only to find himself in a Star KO animation.
Obviously the timing is really precise, so don't expect to do this very often. But when you do it... OOOOH... So satisfying....
Besides, the ending lag is very short, so if you can foresee that you can't do it this time, you can just end the move and try something else.
So, in the end... It is viable. You just have to be creative with it and don't become predictable!
I place myself on a certain distance to the ledge, the roll-recovery distance, then start to perform the move. After grabbing the ledge, the opponent will instinctively roll to get as close to me as possible to attack me before the move is finished... Only to find himself in a Star KO animation.
Obviously the timing is really precise, so don't expect to do this very often. But when you do it... OOOOH... So satisfying....
Besides, the ending lag is very short, so if you can foresee that you can't do it this time, you can just end the move and try something else.
So, in the end... It is viable. You just have to be creative with it and don't become predictable!
Lukingordex
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I don't think a good player would roll closer to the ledge while a jigglypuff is offstage though
Mirax96
Smash Rookie
...?
I'm just responding to the original post
KingNemba
Smash Cadet
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I swear I made a post yesterday unless for some odd reason it got deleted. But I have to disagree with most of these posts. I think that PK Flash is one of Ness' most underrated moves. I have found it useful in multiple scenarios and have taken out six people today alone in the past three hours. And only one of those times was edge-guarding.
Personally I like to use it to intimidate. Whether people are dropping from the air it helps push them to land a distance outside attack range. Other times I will use it in short spurts when people bounce of get thrown helplessly into the air just slightly above ground level to do quick damage.
PK Flash is like any other weapon in Ness' arsenal, it requires precision, timing, and practice. Not only that but actually use it. I have found in many scenarios its oddly most effective against fast characters such as Shiek, ZSS, greninja, lil mac, etc who think their speed can get through PK Flash quick enough to grab you. Once in awhile it happens, but with practice it won't. Forcing it to go outward than inward will often trick people enough with its slow pace to give the impression it won't hit them. There are also plenty of other ways of tactfully using it.
If I can i will try to post up videos.
UPDATE: just watched a video of using PK FLASH against a bowser jr. pk flash looked like it should've missed but it hit one of his toy exploding thingies and I think it elongated the pk flash's radius and kill him? Can PK Flash use other explosions to extend radius?
Personally I like to use it to intimidate. Whether people are dropping from the air it helps push them to land a distance outside attack range. Other times I will use it in short spurts when people bounce of get thrown helplessly into the air just slightly above ground level to do quick damage.
PK Flash is like any other weapon in Ness' arsenal, it requires precision, timing, and practice. Not only that but actually use it. I have found in many scenarios its oddly most effective against fast characters such as Shiek, ZSS, greninja, lil mac, etc who think their speed can get through PK Flash quick enough to grab you. Once in awhile it happens, but with practice it won't. Forcing it to go outward than inward will often trick people enough with its slow pace to give the impression it won't hit them. There are also plenty of other ways of tactfully using it.
If I can i will try to post up videos.
UPDATE: just watched a video of using PK FLASH against a bowser jr. pk flash looked like it should've missed but it hit one of his toy exploding thingies and I think it elongated the pk flash's radius and kill him? Can PK Flash use other explosions to extend radius?
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PKBeam
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but how do you land the move on someone who knows what PK Flash does? :/
KingNemba
Smash Cadet
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Unless your edge-guarding it's best to use PK Flash when there's distance between you and your opponent. Usually I get a fairly decent knockback on my opponent to rile them up and pull a PK Flash. I draw it towards them then reel it back into myself just at at the point they can grab me then POP.
But every scenarios different. Sometimes I will do it randomly in a match when I'm in center of map and they're just sitting there edge-guarding. The first time they will dodge. The second time they think I'm going to do the same thing but instead reel it in and catch them- sometimes- or they won't come at me and have to revert to other tactics.
Just today i used it against a lucario. I was center map after knocking them off stage. I pulled out PK Flash and pushed it towards the edge of the stage when he was floating back. After watching how he played I knew he would probably use his little zip attack so at the last moment i reeled in my PK Flash. He zipped and my PK Flash caught him just centimeters before he could hit me.
As I said, it's practice. You have to just USE it, get a feel for it, make it work for you, and also READ your opponent. See what they're doing. but most times you're gonna have it flash right in front of you. And at this point...almost everyone knows what PK Flash does. I've used it on difficult falcos and falcons who hop all over the place. Our advantage is most people are cocky and the one's that aren't you rely on your other moves or using it tactfully.
But every scenarios different. Sometimes I will do it randomly in a match when I'm in center of map and they're just sitting there edge-guarding. The first time they will dodge. The second time they think I'm going to do the same thing but instead reel it in and catch them- sometimes- or they won't come at me and have to revert to other tactics.
Just today i used it against a lucario. I was center map after knocking them off stage. I pulled out PK Flash and pushed it towards the edge of the stage when he was floating back. After watching how he played I knew he would probably use his little zip attack so at the last moment i reeled in my PK Flash. He zipped and my PK Flash caught him just centimeters before he could hit me.
As I said, it's practice. You have to just USE it, get a feel for it, make it work for you, and also READ your opponent. See what they're doing. but most times you're gonna have it flash right in front of you. And at this point...almost everyone knows what PK Flash does. I've used it on difficult falcos and falcons who hop all over the place. Our advantage is most people are cocky and the one's that aren't you rely on your other moves or using it tactfully.
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PKBeam
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when i said "someone who knows what PK Flash does", i meant someone who isn't going to just run blindly into it.
KingNemba
Smash Cadet
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Then you trap them into scenarios where they can't avoid it- similar to edge-guarding- which can be done on stage. Rarely does anyone run blindly into PK Flashes. They KNOW what they are getting themselves into. You think that everytime you land a PK Flash it's just luck? It's intentional, devised, at least for me.
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King_Spycrab
Smash Rookie
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I find PK Flash easy to punish people recovering high, looking for a down air. They always seem to misjudge the radius and damage of PK Flash, thinking "Oh, he's charging up an extremely dangerous attack, better DI right into it" and get punished hard.
EnhaloTricks
Smash Apprentice
I tend to use it exclusively as an edge-guarding tool. I've found it really lacks against characters with a "teleporting" style attack, though (Sheik, Meta Knight, Greninja, specifically). However, if you can get some good reads you can use it to rack up damage on utilt -> uair strings if you do an uncharged one. It's not a horrible move, but it's DEFINITELY not as flexible as the rest of Ness' moveset.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
The opponent should never really be "trapped" into landing in PK Flash because of how long it takes to reach strong detonation point. During the startup of PK Flash, you can't move, thus have no method of jailing the opponent into it. If you tried to set them up before launch, the opponent should have found another way around it by then due to the stiff nature of PK Flash's control.
If your opponent got caught by it, they didn't properly weigh their movement options.
If your opponent got caught by it, they didn't properly weigh their movement options.
You just described the thought process of a reckless player getting gimmicked by move they don't know about lol
If I can gimmick someone that is scared of the move or for whatever other reason, and I can do it safely, I'll throw it out occasionally. His other options cover whatever pk flash does better though
Trauma1
Smash Rookie
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Ive had some success with PK Flash use on people who are recovering. They'll underestimate how long their ledge invulnerability lasts thinking it will protect them from the Flash. And then it goes off and sends them flying.
That said it does seem to be an extrememly situational move. Maybe you can catch someone trying to recover too high or maybe to mind game someone who may not know how to deal with it or what it does exactly. But the huge start up lag to get the ball back down to Ness's level where it becomes more useful makes it near useless
That said it does seem to be an extrememly situational move. Maybe you can catch someone trying to recover too high or maybe to mind game someone who may not know how to deal with it or what it does exactly. But the huge start up lag to get the ball back down to Ness's level where it becomes more useful makes it near useless
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Lochy
Smash Ace
I don't use PK Flash at all. Maybe 1 in 100 but honestly I don't like having to commit to it. Its just so laggy. I like to feel free and almost float in the wind. PK Flash just makes Ness feel like a rock to me.
Also unless someone is super nervous of the move hitting them they probably will not get hit and you will get punished.
Also unless someone is super nervous of the move hitting them they probably will not get hit and you will get punished.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
It's actually not very laggy. I just took a game from someone in top 5 because I used PK Flash to bait out an air dodge, and proceeded to bair him. Quite funny really.
That being said, it's still a bad move. If your defense for PK Flash involves the use of words like "underestimate," "misjudge," or "don't know," then it's a poor support of the move.
That being said, it's still a bad move. If your defense for PK Flash involves the use of words like "underestimate," "misjudge," or "don't know," then it's a poor support of the move.
Lochy
Smash Ace
True actually. Sort of noticed how my argument falls apart there lol. Also started to mess around with PK Flash in training and its not that laggy honestly. I was sort of going off what i thought but putting the move into action it feels quicker than I first thought. Thanks EB360 for making me see the errors of my argument. I think using it once and awhile to catch a spotdodge wouldn't hurt.