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Pit players = WoW Rogue Players.

Patsie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
441
Location
Nashville, Tennessee
*Don't take this as an insult, the bad would probably not apply to anyone on Smashboards.
**If you didn't play WoW, you don't really need to know about it, I explain it below.

So excuse my nerdiness for second (I've been off it for 3 months! ;) ), but I think this analogy is perfect. Pit functions just like rogues in World of Warcraft.

Let's start with the good. Pit, in my opinion, is by far the character with the most potential in this game. He's incredibly quick, flashy, and, if used correctly, I really think he'd be unstoppable. The only thing is, the speed and effects of his moves make it so that you'd have to move ridiculously quickly, and people can only have such good timing. That said, the best players, in my opinion, will opt to play Pit. Not necessarily the most tournament successful, but the flashiest and quickest players will dominate with Pit, and people will be legitimately impressed by it. I'm not saying he'll be top tier (though I think, so far, that's the general sentiment), but the players who seem to pull of the best combos will play Pit because that's his strong suit. In WoW, the people who released the best PVP videos, the people who got the most attention, the best players in general were all rogues. They just had the most potential to become insanely good with the right timing, and the best players pulled it off in style.

Now, the bad. Pit will unquestionably be the one that anyone under 13 or immature idiot is going to pick (***NOTE: I'm not saying all Pit players are idiots, or that this is the only part of people who picked Pit. I'm saying that among those people, you're going to get the crowd that I just mentioned). Their going to want "th3 0n3 with the 1337 swordz and wingz lolz," and Pit just caters to that playstyle. If you want another example, you're going to get the people who played Eddie Gordo in Tekken: the ones who could slam their head into their controller and still dominate. Pit just caters to a masher's playstyle: his uair, fair, side-b, and overall quickness allow people to go all over the place spamming swords and probably get a kill. In World of Warcraft, the rogues had the same problem. The majority of rogues were really, really bad, but since they were rogues, they could still be somewhat competitive. With any bit of gear, they could beat other people by slamming their heads on their keyboards. I think Pit will be the same way, and it's already occurring. Everyone who's new to the game loves Pit, and I honestly can't think of an exception to that among the 15 people I've met who haven't played Smash beforehand. It happened in the last Smash too. Think about it: how many times did you roll your eyes in a non-competitive arena when someone said they played Fox? The only reason was, the Fox ALWAYS played the same: laser spam from one area, dash attack, upsmash EVERYWHERE, and maybe the occasional Up-B. At college, I would say that's about 95% of the Fox players we played. It doesn't just happen that almost everyone who played on a super-casual level (I'm talking like maybe a game every month or so) used Fox; he was the best character.

Continuing the analogy for conclusion, I'm saying Pit will be like Melee's Fox. The best players will use him, and so will the majority of the people I mentioned above.
 

Rovec

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Riverdale, Iowa
I can see where you're coming from, but I think your point applies to just about everyone. To continue with your WoW comparison, there are many great players that choose to go paladin because of its great AoE tanking or great survivability while healing. On the other end of the spectrum there were the kids that rolled paladins so they could be the good guys and beat up dragons while wearing heavy armor.

Likewise, there are great SSBB players that will use Ike for all of his merits and then there are others that will choose him because he carries a big sword and looks cool. Sometimes, they'll use him for both. Like myself :laugh:
 

Yorenec

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
72
Oh god.

I completely understand where you're coming from, but please never compare an aspect of Brawl to WoW ever again. Just please don't.
 

Lin_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
115
Location
Hong Kong
I don't actually play WoW, but I get what you mean. I brought my Wii to my friend's house yesterday, and she and her brother were all over Pit. "Omg, he's cute! He has wings! LOLOL!" It was horrible.
 

Mercury

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
99
this was probably the biggest waste of time i've ever read. you never even actually said why he is like a rogue, other than the fact that WoW Rogues take proper timing, and so does Pit, therefore Pit = Rogue (which sounds incredibly stupid). And then towards the end you start talking about Fox out of no where and say Pit is good in Brawl, and Fox is good in Melee, therefore Pit in Brawl = Fox in Melee.

do you realize how stupid you sound to me?
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
Your thoughts are well written, but I have to wonder where you got the idea that Pit is a flashy combo monster. In my experience, he's nothing of the sort. And noob Pit's are easy to defeat. All of his attacks have just enough lag to be easily shield punished if not used carefully.
 

Patsie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
441
Location
Nashville, Tennessee
this was probably the biggest waste of time i've ever read. you never even actually said why he is like a rogue, other than the fact that WoW Rogues take proper timing, and so does Pit, therefore Pit = Rogue (which sounds incredibly stupid). And then towards the end you start talking about Fox out of no where and say Pit is good in Brawl, and Fox is good in Melee, therefore Pit in Brawl = Fox in Melee.

do you realize how stupid you sound to me?
I would argue that the stupid person generalizes things without actually reading the original material. That person, in this case, is you.

First, read the thread title. I'm addressing mainly the type of PEOPLE that play rogues and the PEOPLE that will play Pit. Your dumb-***, looking for "LIEK PIT HAS 2 DAGGERZ HES ROUGE LOL," clearly doesn't recognize the 10-20 comparisons I make throughout my post.

I suggest you re-read what I said, since you never actually make a point, you just rant about random garbage. I made many more comparisons than the one you listen (I'm not going to write a ****ing encyclopedia for you, but I made a good amount).

Maybe the Fox thing doesn't make sense for a BOCES-grade reader such as yourself. Fox in the last game was both the best character and the character completely new people opted to play. He was fast, he was easy, he was flashy, and most importantly he got the job done without much thinking involved. Pit is the same in this game, and if you haven't experienced it yet, I suggest you either take a look at his moves (which I conveniently listed) or shut the hell up.
 

Patsie

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Messages
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Your thoughts are well written, but I have to wonder where you got the idea that Pit is a flashy combo monster. In my experience, he's nothing of the sort. And noob Pit's are easy to defeat. All of his attacks have just enough lag to be easily shield punished if not used carefully.
I agree that really bad Pit players are still going to be easy to beat. But think about how much easier a new player would be to beat if they played a different (but still good character) like Dedede or Toon Link. Pit doesn't have a steep learning curve compared to other characters (granted, he's just as tough to master), so people are going to want to play him.

But I have to disagree that he's not flashy or apt to combo. The only one I can think of who might be flashier is MK, but even then it's close and people are still going to opt for Pit. Pit's moves normally don't pack a punch; he relies on stacking up damage with combos instead of huge 25% hits.
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
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Michigan
I see your point about Pit newbies being harder then others.

Lucario, Metaknight, Falco, Fox, Sheik, Toon Link, Wolf, Diddy, Zero Suit Samus, Marth. They all have true combos, and amazing speed attack speed. The only way Pit can even look like he's comboing is if his opponent constantly DIs toward him, and doesn't know how to airdodge.
 

Kuroneko

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Feb 22, 2008
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95
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Northern Virginia
My first 70 was a rogue, so I guess I can add a little. Rogue in WoW, was the most elegant and flawed class. The majority of bad ones can hit their heads on the keyboard and come out with winning, but you can clearly see a good one from the bad. Pit is about the same way; bad people can probably play him decently, but the great ones could be unstopable? Who knows. I doubt Pit will be the most played though. Especially in friendlies. No one will want to play a camper 24/7. Majority of matches are outside tournies, so yeah. In tournies I predict Falco, MK, Marth, or Lucas being the top dog.
 

Arigon

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Feb 16, 2008
Messages
117
Location
Central Ohio
actually i play an EQ rogue if youve ever played EQ you would know that unfortunately rogues are so measly and pathetic but alot of fun to play. I play pit because hes fun to play with even though i do suck with him i enjoy discovering tactics and strategies with him. I do much better with shiek though hehe. I do think your analogy is very close nice observation.

EDIT thought that i should add that i was watching people in spectater mode and i saw a pit win by running away and shooting arrows it annoyed me just to watch i could only feel sympathy for the other 3 people playing.
 

Mechageo

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Utah
I'm pretty sure Pit is a Blood Elf, I swear I saw him Mana Tap Mario yesterday.
 

Turbowombat

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The discussion of WoW to Brawl comparisons deserves its own thread independent of what the moderators would call "legitimate tactical discussions." That said, the gold star for "OP while slamming head on controller" still does and and always will go to Marth. I think we all recall in melee how easy it was for a total noob to play marth using only their left thumb and massive erection on the C stick. Now with the ability to bind Wiimote motion to smash attacks you can literally pwn n00bs with marth by masturbating. IMO this makes a much tighter comparison to WoW rogues than pit, though admittedly a good runner up (enhancement shaman anyone?).
 

B1ah

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Mar 17, 2008
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So I take it the wow equivalent for the ice climbers would be 2 paladins who are ganging up on you?
 

Turbowombat

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So I take it the wow equivalent for the ice climbers would be 2 paladins who are ganging up on you?
lol! lots of hammers and lockdown and achieving relatively little? Someone has to make a video of the ice climbers bubble hearthing now.
 

Jitsu

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Mar 10, 2008
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Canada
Wow, that is the perfect comparison. I've had alot of trouble with new pit players in my area, and I was starting to think he was broken. But then I realised most of those players have only played pit for like a week. Your right, alot of pit players are exactly like Rogue players from wow. It fits so perfectly that it's disturbing.
 

rabbitgod

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Feb 9, 2008
Messages
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Olimar is an orc hunter without the macho.
Throws pikmin =range+ pet
Whistle sheilds prevent stun damage
Sexy
 

orintemple

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
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Chicago, IL
I don't know when you played WoW but I played for a year and a half. I quit just before the release of the Black Temple. And when I played, while it is true they made the majority, and the good ones made very impressive videos, Rogues actually sucked pretty hard. Pit is an incredibly good character. In PvP Rogues were crap. They could kill if they got the upper hand but if they were found out at all they would get rocked by basically anyone.

I don't see Pit being rocked by everyone. I get your comparison, but this is a little far fetched.

Also, yes 13 year old boys were the majority of the rogue players in WoW. I don't think this is the same with Pit. While a lot of people play Pit and he may be attractive towards some of that group, I feel the majority of that group will be taking "cooler" characters like Wolf and MetaKnight. Pit is cool but he is an angel making him somewhat "goody" which I don't think appeals as much to immature young teens as much as the badassery of Wolf and MetaKnight.
 

Patsie

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I don't know when you played WoW but I played for a year and a half. I quit just before the release of the Black Temple. And when I played, while it is true they made the majority, and the good ones made very impressive videos, Rogues actually sucked pretty hard. Pit is an incredibly good character. In PvP Rogues were crap. They could kill if they got the upper hand but if they were found out at all they would get rocked by basically anyone.

I don't see Pit being rocked by everyone. I get your comparison, but this is a little far fetched.

Also, yes 13 year old boys were the majority of the rogue players in WoW. I don't think this is the same with Pit. While a lot of people play Pit and he may be attractive towards some of that group, I feel the majority of that group will be taking "cooler" characters like Wolf and MetaKnight. Pit is cool but he is an angel making him somewhat "goody" which I don't think appeals as much to immature young teens as much as the badassery of Wolf and MetaKnight.
Unfortunately, I played on and off for around 3 years, most of it focused on PVP. I've got the cred too, I was gladiator in all three brackets as a warrior for two seasons straight, and let me tell you that rogues were not bad. They have always, always, always been within the top half of the 9 classes so far as PVP is concerned. They have been, along with mages and warlocks, the best class for dueling. As sad as it is, I can name like 6 patches were there was no question that rogues were by far the best class for PVP, solo and group. They may not be the best now, but I think throughout WoW's history they've had the most potential over the whole period.

I get what you're saying about Pit being too good, but you have to remember that there's no way in hell that 13 year old kids are going to even attempt to play Metaknight or Wolf past the first few matches. Most of their immaturity also yields impatience, which means they're not going to take the time to learn to play a character effectively. Instead, they're going to choose a character that's much more easily accessible (Pit is EASILY one of the most accessible in the game, but more to the point more than Wolf and especially Metaknight, who doesn't have any simple kill moves), which is why they're going to go for Pit, in my opinion. At the very least, that's what my experience has been. If you know any younger kids that Smash, I think you'll find that at least half of them main Pit (granted, this is anecdotal evidence, but I think there's a reason for why).
 

Turbowombat

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Unfortunately, I played on and off for around 3 years, most of it focused on PVP. I've got the cred too, I was gladiator in all three brackets as a warrior for two seasons straight, and let me tell you that rogues were not bad. They have always, always, always been within the top half of the 9 classes so far as PVP is concerned. They have been, along with mages and warlocks, the best class for dueling. As sad as it is, I can name like 6 patches were there was no question that rogues were by far the best class for PVP, solo and group. They may not be the best now, but I think throughout WoW's history they've had the most potential over the whole period.
WoW boards this way ----->
Thar be smash boards here.
This was a funny idea for a thread whose discussion I commend, but please don't let this drift into the WoW class OP debate. Pit's tactical discussion board should not be cluttered by discussion over patch 2.4 and "omg nerf vanish stunlock." People who were serious about WoW know how much more time it eats up than brawl and can subsequently talk about it for pages (I know I could), but won't because I am glad to say smash boards has been refreshingly free from **** measuring and more about constructive competition development.

Would a moderator please move this off the pit forums and rename it or perhaps start a new one under a new name "WoW classes for Brawl characters: discuss"
 
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