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Yeah I always compare the side special of Captain Falcon and Pit/Dark Pit, Falcons is almost better in all aspects
Well from what I understand forward throw used to be alot better on release, they should've left it alone. I feel Pit is one of the most fundamentally correct characters, there are no easy percents, and he isn't brain dead at all, I just hate playing characters that have a brain dead moveset, rack up damage easier and faster, then kill earlier, its frustrating to grind sooooo hard for 135%+ percent then have to rely on your forward throw to kill which won't without rage or if the opponents character is heavy, and F Smash has sooooo much end lag, opponents can easily fall out of it and it isn't safe at all, up Smash doesn't scoop well from either sides so they have to directly above you or you have to be holding hands with the other character, and down Smash doesn't kill till extremely high percents, spikes are risky, but Pits spike has to be at a perfect angle for it to hit them downward instead of upward
I only have an issue if I don't have rage
Let's not underestimate the tournament viability of the arrows here, homie. They are an absolute essential part of Pit's game, both pre and post patch. I've gotten countless tournament stocks from baited fully charged arrow hits, as well as just arrow gimping characters with slow recoveries. Also, the arrows lead to great set ups if you can bait an air dodge from them, and set ups are suuuuper-dope for some stylish kill opportunities (something Pit just excels at in this game).
I just don't feel like I have a problem with either of these things. These are both a huge part of kill set-ups and kill options for Pit, and I haven't ever experienced issues with these moves connecting. Catching someone on a platform after a tech-read, or no tech at all with the upsmash specifically can result in early kills on a lot of tournament-legal maps.
This move is super powerful enough as is, and is great at catching people who abuse spotdodges. It's other qualities make it's start up completely understandable, moves are much more than their startup and end-lag.
This isn't very specific, and generally everyone would like to see that. But end-lag is meant to balance moves out more than anything.
Pit's up-smash hit-frames come first start at 6 frames, which is suuuper fast for any smash. Forward smash starts at about 10 frames (also quite fast for a smash attack) and can kill super early if you catch someone trying to recover high at the ledge.
Adding tippers to Pit at all was a blessing in this game. His moves already hit so hard, increasing the tipper on him too much would make him undeniably broken. The tipper already makes it possible to kill at a descent percent with his f-tilt, which is nuts.
This wouldn't be an awful addition, but I don't think it is really needed. Pit can already recover from so far away, learning to use that recovery safely is just part of playing the character.
Totes mentioned this move, so I'll leave it with my previous statements, haha.
The duration of this move already seems to catch people off guard, because it really does last a whole lot longer than we could ever need it as Pit players. The only reason I would want it to last longer than it already does is to protect me from when I make the mistake of throwing it out from a bad read so I can hide behind the punish that will surely come from patient and high level players.
Dooooooooood that would be super broke. If you get the timing right on the D-Tilt, it already will stage spike during the first frame of vulnerability on ledge grabs due to it's hit-boxes extending under the platform.
I wouldn't touch Pit's arrows. They are such a great projectile as-is, and they really do rack up some serious extra damage. Dark Pit's arrows definitely don't need any less control then they already have, and I believe they did buff the damage on this last patch.
F-throw in rage (and honestly without rage) is already a ridiculously good option. Just know the character-match up and rack on the extra damage before risking staling the f-throw. Having a forward throw that kills at a good percent already is another blessing for Pit players.
Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions, so there is nothing wrong with anything I quoted on this. Again, just wanted to share my thoughts homies!
Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions, so there is nothing wrong with anything I quoted on this. Again, just wanted to share my thoughts homies![/quote]
Are you referring to how it doesn't pick people up consistently that are grounded? Or for people who are directly above Pit?
The only moves that should break super armor during the correct frames of invulnerability are moves that hit multiple times or have an extensive duration prior to the hit boxes of Pit's side special taking effect. Those are the only type of moves that ever give me trouble.
I feel like Pit's mentioned moveset all have startup lag or endlag on par or better than a majority of the cast. Just going off the frame-data available of course.
I'm not sure which part of my response this is referring too, sorry
I think this one is about tippers, and if so it is a tad bit stronger. Oddly enough it doesn't help Dark Pit very much due to the trajectory of his tilts differing from Pit. So I understand that, but I believe it is just a trajectory problem over a tipper problem.
Just gotta learn to not put yourself in that position. At high level's of play, this isn't nearly as much of a problem. People save their jumps as pit and mix up the recovery to best avoid this problem. I don't know the last time I lost a stock because of this in a tournament, if ever. With enough practice and effort, I'm sure you can eliminate this problem too :D
Agreed!
Dope! I was most unsure of this one because I haven't gotten to look into too much data change since the last couple of patches.
I think meteor spikes are pretty reserved for aerials in this game. And to make this work, the trajectory of the moves would have to be changed completely, changing Pit's meta entirely!
I loved the arrows in Brawl, but I am a bit more of a fan of them in this one. I personally like the setups they offer quite a bit more. I do miss being able to move with an arrow out, though!
That is understandable, I just think that untouched it is still a fantastic option as is!
With the super armor and power of flight parts, I've seen one hit moves that have broken it(not counting Little Mac or any invincibility moves), while one Pit main named Tabboo(not a good Pit honestly, so doesn't really help)was always spiked by alot of people because of it. He'd angle it correctly, but only when they're right next to him, and horribly whenever they're far away(EVO 2015).Absolutely! That is the point of forums! Respond as much as you would like hombre!
Are you referring to how it doesn't pick people up consistently that are grounded? Or for people who are directly above Pit?
The only moves that should break super armor during the correct frames of invulnerability are moves that hit multiple times or have an extensive duration prior to the hit boxes of Pit's side special taking effect. Those are the only type of moves that ever give me trouble.
I feel like Pit's mentioned moveset all have startup lag or endlag on par or better than a majority of the cast. Just going off the frame-data available of course.
I'm not sure which part of my response this is referring too, sorry
I think this one is about tippers, and if so it is a tad bit stronger. Oddly enough it doesn't help Dark Pit very much due to the trajectory of his tilts differing from Pit. So I understand that, but I believe it is just a trajectory problem over a tipper problem.
Just gotta learn to not put yourself in that position. At high level's of play, this isn't nearly as much of a problem. People save their jumps as pit and mix up the recovery to best avoid this problem. I don't know the last time I lost a stock because of this in a tournament, if ever. With enough practice and effort, I'm sure you can eliminate this problem too :D
Agreed!
Dope! I was most unsure of this one because I haven't gotten to look into too much data change since the last couple of patches.
I think meteor spikes are pretty reserved for aerials in this game. And to make this work, the trajectory of the moves would have to be changed completely, changing Pit's meta entirely!
I loved the arrows in Brawl, but I am a bit more of a fan of them in this one. I personally like the setups they offer quite a bit more. I do miss being able to move with an arrow out, though!
That is understandable, I just think that untouched it is still a fantastic option as is!
Yes, Pit truly works well with good fundamentals, be doesn't have any "Jank or Cheese". No early kill spikes, no easy combos just chipping away with grabs, jab, dash attack and tilts and it can get frustrating when you die to a brain dead Luigi, or spiked to death at 35% by Captain Falcon its demoralizing
I just interpret matches like that as a push to get better. I relish a good challenge, it forces me to adapt and improve.
Brawl arrows would actually make me want to use his arrows, I hope they reduce end lag by 2-4 more frames
A side b right beneath the leadge and you're dead, so fruastrating
Yup, fail to connect the move anywhere below stage level and it's a guaranteed loss of stock. Even from stage level, you have to mash your jump to barely avoid reaching the killzone, then use PoF to make it back.
Yeah hopefully arrows just get a little bitbit more of reduced lag, and the sheik matchup becomes easier for all
Sheik nerf is is also because I want to see a certain someone (youallknowexactlywhoimtalkingabout) throw a bitchfit.
Yeah the tier ***** himself, I wish Nairo would just go Sheik to show how free all the sheik mains actually are, the tech skill that Nairo has to far better then most of the sheiks, Vinnie being the only exception
Only going to reply to this particular bit. There are two variants of ending lag for Pit's aerial side-special. One for connection, one for no connection. Do you think either bit should be changed (from what it is currently)? Shorter? Longer? Fine as is?
It should be shorter end lag in air, on ground, and when it contacts for both, and the damage/knock back output should be the same when in the air
The aerial whiff could be made shorter, but too much and characters like Bowser would have basically no recovery options in the matchup. Dark Pit would have basically no risk to use Electroshock offstage if you cut even a third of the lag.
What if DP's arrows were basically a faster but weaker version of the Piercing Bow?
Something like that, but I imagine it'd get a bit of a range reduction too.
But then THAT'D be making Dark Pit a more unique character!
Canceling Uspecial would be cool, but unless it had "phantom lag" like ZSS's Boost Kick does it'd be pretty OP. And Uair would probably need a launch power nerf...
I simply want what was shown in the trailer, with the UpB in something like arrows. I had a thought after I made the post, if this happened that yes that could be OP. Picture the drama of people doing UThrow > UpB > UAir, others would cry about it. I still think it is a cool idea, but they would have to balance it somehow.
If Uthrow > Uspecial > Uair were to become a problem then giving Uthrow more endlag would fix it pretty easily.
I don't think that would be much of an issue with uthrow's already minimal hitstun. If anything it would be a really good kill option for pit but not broken, by the time UpB reaches the opponent they can air dodge so it could lead to at most a 50/50 were u read their air dodge or follow their jump with UpB. I wish uair had more kill power though :/
Uair's fine so long as you use your jumps to chase people. I don't think it's impossible to KO somebody like Captain Falcon at 120 in a real match.