Pika's Down B needs a change and here's why

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

First off, if you watch InfernoOmni at all, please read this in his voice, I feel like it'd somehow add to the experience. Anyway, in my opinion, Pikachu's Down B needs a change. Why, you may ask? Well here's my reason for believing so. The reason is simply, you can't stop it. You could hit Pikachu with a Frame 1 move and you'd STILL get hit by it. In other games, if you were to hit him fast enough, it would not come out. Now in Smash 4, it doesn't matter what you do, you're still gonna get hit by it. Now another reason I believe this needs to change is because it mostly brings small surges of annoyance to anyone that's fallen victim to it, or even lost matches because of it. This includes money matches. Pika moved up a few tiers because of this, and I think it needs to be nerfed. Hell, this tech is more than likely the main reason Esam wins tourneys ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I probably didn't explain it well enough, but I hope I got my point across, thanks for reading <3

 

[Emuchu]

But... a lot of fighters have ways to interrupt strings. I don't see how Pikachu's Thunder as a combo breaker is different from simply having a fast Nair or an invulnerable / armored UpB or something, besides the delayed gratification factor and the huge cooldown if you're baited. I can understand the frustration of getting hit even after hitting Pika (it feels way worse than just getting stuffed by a Nair, even though they're functionally similar), but you just have to keep your combos tight and not get too greedy against him, like you were fighting Luigi or something.

 

[Ritronaut]

this is... kinda of a really ****ty argument honestly. The move isn't even that overcentralizing, the fact that it can interrupt things means it is good, but it isn't even close broken and doesn't need a change. I can tell you probably lost something because of it, maybe had a ryu combo going on and got interrupted and decided you needed to rant about it on smashboards. No, this move isn't overpowered, and even if it did put him up a few tiers, why should you take it away? He's not the best character, and he's not overpowered by any means. If you're getting annoyed by it, then try not to get hit by it, people getting annoyed by it is really not a reason to change it. Also, itt has a **** ton of endlag and if you predict it its literally a FREE punish. I can't tell if you're joking because you put that lenny face in the end, but this isn't even close to why ESAM wins tournaments, and you're saying its the main reason...? ESAM is just good. I get that you want to rant about it, but asking for a non-op move to be nerfed makes you seem like a scrubby whiner.

 

[SafCar]

You shouldn't be getting hit by Thunder whether doing a true combo or just hitting Pika and punishing. True combos prevent Pika from using Frame 1 options and if you're near him, like during a punish, you have ample time to move away and continue attacking.

If there's one thing I dislike about regular updates/patches in fighting games, it's people complaining about a move and asking for it to get nerfed instead of getting good and learning to roll with the punches. Can't wait until Tuesday for it to end.

 

[Shaymin slicker]

So, this is just about the bolt that comes from thunder in general? (I might have read this wrong). If it is then honestly I don't see a reason as to why it should be nerfed. This has been said before, but a lot of fighters have tools to interrupt attacks and this is no different, and not only that, but i'm pretty sure you can just roll away from it quickly.

 

[Emuchu]

I can't find the frame data on it, but I vaguely recall reading that the thunder cloud itself is spawned on Frame 2. Does anyone know the numbers here? Kurogane Hammer only has the startup and active frames, but not the spawn frame.

 

[Soul.]

From what I've heard, it did spawn on frame 2. If it was frame 1 or something else we would have known that by now.

This is from the other frame data thread.

 

[Quarium]

Honestly, between anything to nerf Pikachu you choose the easiest to bait, lagiest and most telegraphed move in his moveset?

 

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

From what I've heard, it did spawn on frame 2. If it was frame 1 or something else we would have known that by now.

This is from the other frame data thread.

Ah. I made a mistake, then.

 

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

Honestly, between anything to nerf Pikachu you choose the easiest to bait, lagiest and most telegraphed move in his moveset?

I could've asked for him to be removed from the game entirely, but we both know that's too much.

 

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

this is... kinda of a really ****ty argument honestly. The move isn't even that overcentralizing, the fact that it can interrupt things means it is good, but it isn't even close broken and doesn't need a change. I can tell you probably lost something because of it, maybe had a ryu combo going on and got interrupted and decided you needed to rant about it on smashboards. No, this move isn't overpowered, and even if it did put him up a few tiers, why should you take it away? He's not the best character, and he's not overpowered by any means. If you're getting annoyed by it, then try not to get hit by it, people getting annoyed by it is really not a reason to change it. Also, itt has a **** ton of endlag and if you predict it its literally a FREE punish. I can't tell if you're joking because you put that lenny face in the end, but this isn't even close to why ESAM wins tournaments, and you're saying its the main reason...? ESAM is just good. I get that you want to rant about it, but asking for a non-op move to be nerfed makes you seem like a scrubby whiner.

Idk, maybe I just suck at the game and decided to pour salt on the forum. xP

 

[Mega1256]

First off, if you watch InfernoOmni at all, please read this in his voice, I feel like it'd somehow add to the experience. Anyway, in my opinion, Pikachu's Down B needs a change. Why, you may ask? Well here's my reason for believing so. The reason is simply, you can't stop it. You could hit Pikachu with a Frame 1 move and you'd STILL get hit by it. In other games, if you were to hit him fast enough, it would not come out. Now in Smash 4, it doesn't matter what you do, you're still gonna get hit by it. Now another reason I believe this needs to change is because it mostly brings small surges of annoyance to anyone that's fallen victim to it, or even lost matches because of it. This includes money matches. Pika moved up a few tiers because of this, and I think it needs to be nerfed. Hell, this tech is more than likely the main reason Esam wins tourneys ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I probably didn't explain it well enough, but I hope I got my point across, thanks for reading <3

If you think this is something hard to deal with it you need to seriously step up your game

 

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

If you think this is something hard to deal with it you need to seriously step up your game

<3

 

[Megamang]

Try stopping. Letting the Thunder hit. And smashing pika in the face. I often combo break with nair because thunder is risky.


Also, i cant imagine how you'd feel against 64 pika. Amongst his other 20 crazy advantages he has is... hitting a high thunder (no cloud iirc) caused enough hitstun to combo into another thunder, ad nauseum, until you died.

The cloud addition is definitely a trade off.

 

[SafCar]

Idk, maybe I just suck at the game and decided to pour salt on the forum. xP

Wait...

Go home everyone, it's just someone trolling.

 

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

Wait...

View attachment 87546

Go home everyone, it's just someone trolling.

I'm actually not, but think what you want, I guess.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I think the point here to be made is Pikachu's Thunder is one of the most balanced moves he has, it's strong but extremely telegraphed and easy to play around, also laggy beyond belief. If you wanted to nerf something relevant on Pikachu you'd complain about Quick Attack, FAir, or something else, but not Thunder.

 

[Emuchu]

Thunder's only really good for that surprise unreactable cloud spike or top-of-the-screen airdodge punish, but the positioning and mindgames required to make that work is immense. (Unless we really figure out that true combo Uthrow > Dash-Jump-Momenum-Cancel Thunder that follows DI, in which case I concede that Thunder is the best move ever and not even fair. Pikachu with kill confirms? Holy crap!)

 

[EvenDemonsKnow1]

Thunder's only really good for that surprise unreactable cloud spike or top-of-the-screen airdodge punish, but the positioning and mindgames required to make that work is immense. (Unless we really figure out that true combo Uthrow > Dash-Jump-Momenum-Cancel Thunder that follows DI, in which case I concede that Thunder is the best move ever and not even fair. Pikachu with kill confirms? Holy crap!)

surprise unreactable cloud spike or top-of-the-screen

unreactable cloud spike

cloud

Sorry

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Thunder's only really good for that surprise unreactable cloud spike or top-of-the-screen airdodge punish, but the positioning and mindgames required to make that work is immense. (Unless we really figure out that true combo Uthrow > Dash-Jump-Momenum-Cancel Thunder that follows DI, in which case I concede that Thunder is the best move ever and not even fair. Pikachu with kill confirms? Holy crap!)

isn't it around 70%? Either way, Pikachu has one of, if not the absolute best gimping ability in the game so why would you even need it?