Pikachu's dash attack

[666blaziken]

who thinks that pikachu needs to have a stronger dash attack? Just a little bit though (maybe +3-5% and slightly stronger knockback?). Maybe perhaps have a little bit of electricity surround him as he does his head bash? I don't know how that will affect the metagame, but if PMBR finds this not to be broken, pikachu could be a little stronger.

 

[Anther]

I think it's always been annoying that its only utility has been a sort of easier to perform dashing ftilt. I do agree that it'd be cool to have it be a move that's more useful than only situational edgeguard or as a high percent only poke.

What it should do exactly, I don't know. Sideways dair =P?

 

[Sarix]

Making it just less laggy in general I think would be the first thing to do. A sideways Dair would be interesting though.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, please. There is absolutely no reason for his Dash attack to be as bad as it is, and frankly, I'm surprised this move has been neglected for this long.

Give it an electric effect and more KB. Maybe experiment with different launch angles to give it some combo potential.

 

[666blaziken]

I was also thinking about pikachu's grab. In melee its range was very bad. I haven't done enough grabbing in PM to really know if pikachu's grabbing hitbox got better or worse, but I don't think that it got changed (PMBR, correct me if I am wrong) but his hitbox for grabbing needs some attention.

 

[foxygrandpa]

an interesting idea for pikachu's dash would be something like squirtles withdraw, where if he hits someone or a shield, the attack cancels

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I say to this thread, why? What reason does it need to be changed? Does the move have to combo? Isn't pika fine the way he is? Honestly, imo not all moves should be good, or at least its ok for moves to be situational in use.

 

[666blaziken]

His grabbing though has very small hitboxes.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Can he DACUS with it? That would make it good because of the movement... But kinda Doubt it.

 

[Paradoxium]

His grabbing though has very small hitboxes.

It is small, but its not that big of a problem when you can auto-cancel fair into grab, he can also chain grab a big portion of the cast

 

[Deleted member]

I say to this thread, why? What reason does it need to be changed? Does the move have to combo? Isn't pika fine the way he is? Honestly, imo not all moves should be good, or at least its ok for moves to be situational in use.

And I say to your post, why not? Would it really hurt to give him a better dash attack? It doesn't need to be amazing, just usable. I wouldn't even call the move situational as it is. I would call it borderline useless. Pikachu is nowhere near the level of Fox/Falco where he should be forced to have that kind of move.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Why not eh, the classic argument to a change in project m. Depending on what properties its given, yes it could be a bad idea. You have take into account if pika needs actually needs something before suggesting a change, especially since his meta is so underdeveloped in project m. Its also important to know what your definition of usable is, and also in what way this change helps him. Suggesting a buff for a character without a more solid argument than, "why not", isn't an optimal way to go about a possible change.

So I'm not saying this thread shouldn't be a thing, but first ask yourselves, is his current dash completely useless? Have all possible applications of it been explored, and are they worth the attempt. And if so, what subtle properties could be given to it to make it decent, while still requiring intelligent thought in its usage?

 

[666blaziken]

I made this suggestion because I feel that his dash attack has a lot to be desired. At low percentages, it barely phases the opponent, and at high percentages, it knocks the opponent too much horizontal distance for me to follow up on it. I always found myself getting punished in melee when I used pikachu's dash attack, and in project M, it doesn't really feel any different from melee. Maybe I haven't tried his dash attack in a while, so it might have changed. Look at fox, falco, and peach's dash attacks. They follow up combos, and they are useful unless shielded. I think that if I were to use pikachu's dash attack animation/hit boxes and change the damage and trajectory, I would want pikachu's attack to send the opponent farther back horizontally (maybe 15-20% more powerful than it is now) at the start, and when pikachu hits the ground, his attack could send the opponent at a vertical distance for combos. Nothing too powerful, just something Pikachu could use to bump him up a little bit.

 

[\Apples]

I agree with Mr. Pickle in theory, but I do believe Pika's dash attack is one of those moves that is horrendous to the point of needing just a little something more. Dashing SHFFL'd aerials is more effective in pretty much every way that I can think of. The only case where dash attack is kind of useful is to put out a hitbox at an edge and hold it there since Pika doesn't travel off the edge.

If he had less endlag and it boosted Pika forward just a little more, I think it'd be a great move to just get in there with or to escape with. Giving it more of a quick movement utility, almost like how Falcon can use his Falcon Kick to get out of being pinned at the ledge. That'd probably be the simplest and most effective change to make to his dash attack, honestly. Very easy to implement, no additional effects or anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Why not eh, the classic argument to a change in project m. Depending on what properties its given, yes it could be a bad idea.

That's why you test out different properties and see which works best. Nobody is suggesting that we blindly buff his dash attack and turn it into some incredible new move.

is his current dash completely useless?

Yes, yes it is. Low damage, low KB, no combo potential, no KO power, no disjoint, a lot of lag. There is never a reason to use that move.

You have take into account if pika needs actually needs something before suggesting a change, especially since his meta is so underdeveloped in project m.

Sheik did not "need" to keep her crawl. Peach did not "need" to keep her Brawl U-tilt. But they were kept because they added something interesting and sensible to the character and were useful without breaking the character/changing their playstyle.

Leaving Pikachu with such a terrible dash attack is not my idea of good design. Giving Pikachu a usable dash attack that he can work into his game is good design.

 

[Nausicaa]

It's only got one use, I call it the "**** up a pivot and you're dead" technique.
Works even better with Luigi...

 

[\Apples]

I like what they've done in 3.0 with Pika's dash attack, he grabs the ledge after. That's not so bad.