Q&A Pikachu Q&A Thread (Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer)

[A10theHero]

The Discord group is definitely something worth looking into. Lots of good, helpful people there.

Hey Pikabunz , do you know how safe SH RAR Uair is on shield? Also, what do you do to test safety on shield? The way I do it is definitely suboptimal so I was wondering what your method is.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

If Pikachu UThrows you into Thunder, which way is generally safest to DI to avoid it?

 

[Pikabunz]

The Discord group is definitely something worth looking into. Lots of good, helpful people there.

Hey Pikabunz , do you know how safe SH RAR Uair is on shield? Also, what do you do to test safety on shield? The way I do it is definitely suboptimal so I was wondering what your method is.

I feel that something like Mario's upsmash could punish that. I'm not too sure. The way I test is in training mode using 1/4 hold L speed. This way I can easily control both characters and count frames. Each tap of L advances 2 frames. It has a be a quick tap too.

If Pikachu UThrows you into Thunder, which way is generally safest to DI to avoid it?

You generally want to mix it up with left and right DI, but the safest is definitely DI'ing away, especially if you're near the ledge. It's safer because it's actually harder for Pikachu to combo into thunder since you are further away from him than you would be if you DI'ed behind him. So by DI'ing away you're making him run a little more so that the timing on getting the RAR thunder is tighter. DI'ing away also avoids the dthrow to thunder mix-up.

 

[A10theHero]

If Pikachu UThrows you into Thunder, which way is generally safest to DI to avoid it?

I like Pikabunz's answer more, lol

I feel that something like Mario's upsmash could punish that. I'm not too sure. The way I test is in training mode using 1/4 hold L speed. This way I can easily control both characters and count frames. Each tap of L advances 2 frames. It has a be a quick tap too.

Yeah, against Mario, I can't say how safe it'd be. But I'm still curious about it, which is why I've been trying to look into it. My method involved recording the action and just counting the frames separately. Unfortunately I could only record at 30 fps which meant that I would only get even numbers as results (in 60 fps). I like your method better, lol. Controlling both characters at once could be really helpful. Thanks!

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

You generally want to mix it up with left and right DI, but the safest is definitely DI'ing away, especially if you're near the ledge. It's safer because it's actually harder for Pikachu to combo into thunder since you are further away from him than you would be if you DI'ed behind him. So by DI'ing away you're making him run a little more so that the timing on getting the RAR thunder is tighter. DI'ing away also avoids the dthrow to thunder mix-up.

Now, am I holding up and away, down and away, or just straight away?

 

[Shram]

Now, am I holding up and away, down and away, or just straight away?

If you're a high enough percent, you might be able to get out without any chance of thunder, just as long as you go far enough. So sometimes holding up might help.
But other than that, the directional up and down inputs don't make much a difference.

 

[thomas4america]

Can anyone give me tips on how to play the neutral vs luigi? I understand how to capitalize once i have him in the disadvantage state (by applying pressure, baiting air dodges and nairs until I can get him off stage), but I am constantly losing in the neutral vs him and eventually getting up-smashed. I've tried going aggro and always end up getting grabbed, I've tried camping him out and playing hit-and-run, but he can usually make his way in by powershielding jolts and spamming fireballs. Any tips?

 

[TupacLives123]

Any advice on how to deal with some of the sword characters like Roy and Marth? I find being super aggressive works against defensive players, but I struggle against the aggressive ones. Any advice?

 

[Shram]

Any advice on how to deal with some of the sword characters like Roy and Marth? I find being super aggressive works against defensive players, but I struggle against the aggressive ones. Any advice?

-Shield is great against the swordies, especially against Marth and Lucina. Just watch out for neutral b!
-But generally you want to just barely stay outside of their range to punish whiffed attacks. It's harder online, but in the neutral you just want to wait for them to throw out something unsafe, and punish with fair, dair, grab, or quick attack.
-However, that does not mean that you have to play defensive. Just hovering around their range will pressure them into the corner, which limits a lot of their options.
edit:
-Another option is to trade your bair into their up-b's, it will spike Lucina and Roy and hopefully kill them. Just watch out so that:
a) up-b doesn't stage spike you, so be prepared to tech!
b) Roy, Ike, and Corrin's up-b are too disjointed to trade, so I recommend staying on the stage unless they have to recover from far away.

 

[Foxus]

I'm shopping around for a different character at the moment, put Fox off for awhile.

How technical of a character is Pikachu?

EDIT: How easy is it to pick Pikachu up, and how does her/his recovery fair up to Fox's?

 

[Shram]

I'm shopping around for a different character at the moment, put Fox off for awhile.

How technical of a character is Pikachu?

EDIT: How easy is it to pick Pikachu up, and how does her/his recovery fair up to Fox's?

He's more difficult to learn than a lot of the other characters. Most people consider him to be one of the top 10 hardest to learn.
He has trouble killing, his recovery takes a lot of practice, and most of his aerials have a lot of landing lag if you don't autocancel them.
However, His quick attack and thunder jolt can make neutral game at low-mid level play VERY easy, which can actually be a bad thing. The reliance on those two moves will hinder you when you try to pick up another character, or play against a top level player since they'll be able to punish it better.

Lastly, pikachu's got one of the best recoveries in the game, MUCH better than Fox, but will take a very long time to master.
Pikachu has the ability to recover from the near-blastzone bubble with just quick attack, but you have to know the angles and be able to perform them consistently.

Hope I helped!

 

[Foxus]

He's more difficult to learn than a lot of the other characters. Most people consider him to be one of the top 10 hardest to learn.
He has trouble killing, his recovery takes a lot of practice, and most of his aerials have a lot of landing lag if you don't autocancel them.
However, His quick attack and thunder jolt can make neutral game at low-mid level play VERY easy, which can actually be a bad thing. The reliance on those two moves will hinder you when you try to pick up another character, or play against a top level player since they'll be able to punish it better.

Lastly, pikachu's got one of the best recoveries in the game, MUCH better than Fox, but will take a very long time to master.
Pikachu has the ability to recover from the near-blastzone bubble with just quick attack, but you have to know the angles and be able to perform them consistently.

Hope I helped!

It does give me some perspective.

Both Fox and Pikachu have high learning curves. So, let's say a Smash angel cast down on me, and I got good at Pikachu, would I then be able to transfer that skill attained using Pikachu to Fox?

 

[Kirito_SAO]

I have a question. Why is put a lot lower on tier lists? Did he get nerfed? He used to be like top 5 or even top 3? What happened to him?

 

[A10theHero]

I have a question. Why is put a lot lower on tier lists? Did he get nerfed? He used to be like top 5 or even top 3? What happened to him?

People had high expectations of him initially. Then they noticed his flaws. A lot of people still think he's good, just not as good. Then there are people who either overrate or underrate him. It depends on who you talk to.
Results have a big role in this too. ESAM is our only consistent top level rep, and he doesn't always place that well.

 

[The_Most_Effectual]

So I figured I'd ask this here since I didn't want to make my first impression on the Pikachu boards as another noob cluttering it up with another useless thread lol.
But anyway, I've been a Ness main since release and although I started attending a few Sm4sh local tournaments last March, I started focusing on Melee last summer. Recently, I've gotten involved with my local Sm4sh scene again, and despite being relatively young I've seen moderate success at my locals with my Ness. But having lost several games because of recovery jank, I decided I needed to pick up a top tier character as a secondary or co-main to fill in the holes with the matchups that Ness really struggles with. I really like Pikachu and really hate just about every other top tier, so I was really hoping I'd be able to use him as a secondary when I'm up against characters with counters such as Corrin and Peach, and characters that just kinda laugh at Ness' recovery like Rosa, Villager, and Greninja.
Any opinions on Pikachu as a secondary to Ness would be much appreciated, and/or tips on starting learning Pikachu as well. Thanks in advance, and sorry for making this so long lol.

 

[A10theHero]

So I figured I'd ask this here since I didn't want to make my first impression on the Pikachu boards as another noob cluttering it up with another useless thread lol.
But anyway, I've been a Ness main since release and although I started attending a few Sm4sh local tournaments last March, I started focusing on Melee last summer. Recently, I've gotten involved with my local Sm4sh scene again, and despite being relatively young I've seen moderate success at my locals with my Ness. But having lost several games because of recovery jank, I decided I needed to pick up a top tier character as a secondary or co-main to fill in the holes with the matchups that Ness really struggles with. I really like Pikachu and really hate just about every other top tier, so I was really hoping I'd be able to use him as a secondary when I'm up against characters with counters such as Corrin and Peach, and characters that just kinda laugh at Ness' recovery like Rosa, Villager, and Greninja.
Any opinions on Pikachu as a secondary to Ness would be much appreciated, and/or tips on starting learning Pikachu as well. Thanks in advance, and sorry for making this so long lol.

Hello and welcome! I'm glad you used the Q&A thread, lol. We probably need to make it more obvious that questions should go here rather than in brand new threads.
Anyways, Pikachu seems to have good matchups against Rosalina, Villager, and Greninja. Against Peach and Corrin too, many Pikachu mains see them in their favor, but there are important caveats to watch out for, especially in these matchups. One of Pikachu's biggest flaws is that if you make mistakes, you can get punished hard (since he's so light). So knowledge and experience are very important. ESAM's Pikachu guide is a great way to get started into learning about Pikachu. If you have any questions, you can ask them here or in the Pikachu Discord Group. Hope this helps!

 

[Shram]

It does give me some perspective.

Both Fox and Pikachu have high learning curves. So, let's say a Smash angel cast down on me, and I got good at Pikachu, would I then be able to transfer that skill attained using Pikachu to Fox?

The better you are at the game in general, the easier you'll learn new characters. A player like ZeRo will be able to play and learn Captain Falcon on his first try a lot better than I would in weeks.

 

[The_Most_Effectual]

Hello and welcome! I'm glad you used the Q&A thread, lol. We probably need to make it more obvious that questions should go here rather than in brand new threads.
Anyways, Pikachu seems to have good matchups against Rosalina, Villager, and Greninja. Against Peach and Corrin too, many Pikachu mains see them in their favor, but there are important caveats to watch out for, especially in these matchups. One of Pikachu's biggest flaws is that if you make mistakes, you can get punished hard (since he's so light). So knowledge and experience are very important. ESAM's Pikachu guide is a great way to get started into learning about Pikachu. If you have any questions, you can ask them here or in the Pikachu Discord Group. Hope this helps!

Much appreciated, and glad to hear it! I'm glad I won't have to turn to someone lame like ZSS or Sheik to deal with the matchups. I look forward to seeing you around the boards, and thanks again for your help!

 

[Thor]

So, I know Bayonetta is a pretty good character. I am considering asking about making a thread for Bayonetta vs Pikachu specifically, but I was curious... I know we can break out of combos with thunder, and that you can sometimes airdodge out of Bayonetta stuff... does anyone in here think it's worth it trying to mash Thunder near the upper blastline to try to get a really early star KO, or should I just mash airdodge to try to get out?

Any generic MU advice is useful as well [I try all of my Pikachu/Fox/Cloud against her depending on the day and stage, but I think Pikachu probably has the best edgeguarding tools with Thunder and Thunder jolt and should be hardest to edgeguard, while having very rewarding grabs onstage helps as well, so I want to do better in this MU].

 

[Shram]

So, I know Bayonetta is a pretty good character. I am considering asking about making a thread for Bayonetta vs Pikachu specifically, but I was curious... I know we can break out of combos with thunder, and that you can sometimes airdodge out of Bayonetta stuff... does anyone in here think it's worth it trying to mash Thunder near the upper blastline to try to get a really early star KO, or should I just mash airdodge to try to get out?

Any generic MU advice is useful as well [I try all of my Pikachu/Fox/Cloud against her depending on the day and stage, but I think Pikachu probably has the best edgeguarding tools with Thunder and Thunder jolt and should be hardest to edgeguard, while having very rewarding grabs onstage helps as well, so I want to do better in this MU].

Pikachu has no openings for his frame 1 thunder, from my knowledge. I tried that in tournament and I just got 0-deathed. I find it's best just to mash airdodge and DI left-down and right- down unfortunately.

 

[Thor]

Pikachu has no openings for his frame 1 thunder, from my knowledge. I tried that in tournament and I just got 0-deathed. I find it's best just to mash airdodge and DI left-down and right- down unfortunately.

If there's no true openings, that's fine, but... I've seen a Puff rest Bayonetta out of her combo... maybe they messed up? They're a pretty good Bayonetta...

Incidentally, Thunder is frame 2. Rest is invincible frame 1, so I'm not sure if that's the difference-maker. I've tried mashing thunder and seen bolts come down out of position because they used side+b, so I was curious if it seems strategic or not...

Can anyone confirm/deny this from some sort of frame-data standpoint, or are we left to trial, error, and hope?

 

[Insightful]

How do you beat Roy?

 

[The_Most_Effectual]

Just out of curiosity, what is the general consensus on Pikachu as a doubles character? I've never really seen a Pikachu in any high-level doubles, so I'm assuming he's probably not the best, but is he at least considered to be mediocre?

 

[A10theHero]

How do you beat Roy?

Play patiently. Stay out of his sword range until you can punish its endlag. Running up and shielding or even SHAD to aerial works too. He's a fastfaller, so that makes it easier to combo him and his recovery isn't that good, so edgeguarding is well-worth the effort.

Just out of curiosity, what is the general consensus on Pikachu as a doubles character? I've never really seen a Pikachu in any high-level doubles, so I'm assuming he's probably not the best, but is he at least considered to be mediocre?

ESAM uses Pikachu when he teams with MVD. Since he's pretty much the only top player for Pikachu, you wouldn't really see much of the character in doubles either. It depends on who he's teamed up. Cloud seemed to work well with Pikachu, but that might have been because he's really good at doubles. But also, he seems to cover Pikachu's weaknesses pretty well since he is heavier and has better killing power.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Hey, looking for some current Pikachu guides that are good for beginner Pikachu's.

Any recommendations?

 

[A10theHero]

Hey, looking for some current Pikachu guides that are good for beginner Pikachu's.

Any recommendations?

ESAM's Pikachu Guide is pretty good. It's incomplete, but there's still a lot of useful stuff in there.

 

[SalsaSavant]

ESAM's Pikachu Guide is pretty good. It's incomplete, but there's still a lot of useful stuff in there.

Oooh, sweet. I'll check it. Thanks.

 

[The_Devious]

Does anyone have a link to the pikachu discord?

 

[A10theHero]

Does anyone have a link to the pikachu discord?

https://discord.gg/0XNGqDmCagWOpdtU

 

[The_Devious]

https://discord.gg/0XNGqDmCagWOpdtU

Thanks

 

[Ktan7i3]

Quick question:
What would be the Optimum Punish when my Opponent always DI's out and air dodges immediately after UThrow->Thunder?
I can RAR Thunder but not frame perfect enough to make it true. Also, I know I can punish with Double Jump Bair to catch their airdodge after the UThrow, but it just doesn't seem optimal. I was wondering if I can read where they'll be after their airdodge and Blue Thunder them there. Not sure though

Please help a Pikabro out
Cheers

 

[A10theHero]

Quick question:
What would be the Optimum Punish when my Opponent always DI's out and air dodges immediately after UThrow->Thunder?
I can RAR Thunder but not frame perfect enough to make it true. Also, I know I can punish with Double Jump Bair to catch their airdodge after the UThrow, but it just doesn't seem optimal. I was wondering if I can read where they'll be after their airdodge and Blue Thunder them there. Not sure though

Please help a Pikabro out
Cheers

If they choose to air dodge when they DI Away, they will stall horizontally during the air dodge. This means that they will fall vertically but not move horizontally during the air dodge (the exceptions to this are Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo, who can still move horizontally while they air dodge). So you can just get underneath them and Thunder towards the end of the air dodge. You won't be able to connect the Thunder burst, but this will be your strongest punish. (Doing this could still kill, but it depends on a few factors.)

 

[ClassicJono]

If they're always DIing and airdodging , at around 90%, you can double jump thunder in which the body of pikachu will hit the opponent. At higher percents the opponent will be too high for this and I'll recommend the RAR thunder in this situation.
If you mess up the RAR thunder, the best option in my opinion is to hold stage control. Make sure your opponent does not touch the ground and juggle them using up-airs for some extra % and punishing their landings with moves such as dash attack, grab or nair.

 

[Shram]

How fast do pikachu's jabs come out? Not asking the time it initially becomes active, but how many frames are in between each consecutive jab?

 

[Yoshister]

Is it possible to land jab and not be punished?

How fast do pikachu's jabs come out? Not asking the time it initially becomes active, but how many frames are in between each consecutive jab?

The hitbox of jab lasts frame 2-3 with 19 frames of endlag.

 

[Ktan7i3]

Thanks A10theHero and Classic Jono for your replies. They really help
Since the Pika Community is so helpful, I thought I'd get all my Pika questions out of the way.

1) How useful is learning either Sheild Dropping or Extended Dash Dancing for Pika?
I can do them inconsistently and can probably perfect it with practice, but not sure just how viable they are to the character.

2) What is Pika's best way of playing the Anti-Grab game?
Ex. Against a Ness when I'm on High % or a DK during DingDong %

Cheers PikaPeople!! :D

 

[Shram]

Is it possible to land jab and not be punished?

The hitbox of jab lasts frame 2-3 with 19 frames of endlag.

So do jabs have like 21 frames in between each other then??

 

[Shram]

Thanks A10theHero and Classic Jono for your replies. They really help
Since the Pika Community is so helpful, I thought I'd get all my Pika questions out of the way.

1) How useful is learning either Sheild Dropping or Extended Dash Dancing for Pika?
I can do them inconsistently and can probably perfect it with practice, but not sure just how viable they are to the character.

2) What is Pika's best way of playing the Anti-Grab game?
Ex. Against a Ness when I'm on High % or a DK during DingDong %

Cheers PikaPeople!! :D

1) Sheild Dropping depends on the stage, but it's not amazing for pikachu since he can't shield drop and punish with too much damage.
Extended Dash Dancing should be really good for pikachu since his dash is so quick, but most top-level pikas don't use it.
2) -They will have a harder time grabbing if you're in the air
-Quick attack is hard to punish with a grab, try to mix up your landings with it.
-Shield less, spotdodge or roll more, but don't make your movement predictable.
-Fair can be punished out of shield by most characters, avoid landing with it unless you space it or you know it's safe.
-Also pay attention to which side the Ness is on, he'll want you on the outside of the stage. If he's fishing for it too hard, watch for it and try to punish.

 

[A10theHero]

How fast do pikachu's jabs come out? Not asking the time it initially becomes active, but how many frames are in between each consecutive jab?

Consecutive jabs have 7 frames between them.

Is it possible to land jab and not be punished?

The hitbox of jab lasts frame 2-3 with 19 frames of endlag.

It depends. If you jab them off a platform or the ledge, you're fine. In all other cases, once the jab pushes them far enough, characters can punish Pikachu. There is a chance you can shield or get away once the jab pushes them too far, but you have to be fast. And in a lot of cases, there still won't be enough time to save yourself.

Thanks A10theHero and Classic Jono for your replies. They really help
Since the Pika Community is so helpful, I thought I'd get all my Pika questions out of the way.

1) How useful is learning either Sheild Dropping or Extended Dash Dancing for Pika?
I can do them inconsistently and can probably perfect it with practice, but not sure just how viable they are to the character.

2) What is Pika's best way of playing the Anti-Grab game?
Ex. Against a Ness when I'm on High % or a DK during DingDong %

Cheers PikaPeople!! :D

Extended Dash Dancing is definitely useful. It gives another kill mixup at high percents, though it is still risky.

In addition to what Shram said, pivot forward smash is one of your strongest punishes, but also one of the riskier ones.
Also, fadeaway fair is not punishable by most characters and crossup fair, while punishable, can be a mixup to it.

 

[Yoshister]

It depends. If you jab them off a platform or the ledge, you're fine. In all other cases, once the jab pushes them far enough, characters can punish Pikachu. There is a chance you can shield or get away once the jab pushes them too far, but you have to be fast. And in a lot of cases, there still won't be enough time to save yourself.

Thanks for the response.
I often find myself instinctively jabbing out of shield (Carried over from Mac).

So do jabs have like 21 frames in between each other then??

Pikachu's jab has a FAF of 22 frames.