Pikachu discussion

[Chaostatic]

It's not really a pikachu question (more against pikachu), but it's been bothering me for too long. How is Pikachu's fair bad?
1) Don't DI: get wrecked
2) DI behind: get wrecked by the uair following
3) DI in front: you can only flee (if you try to attack him, you'll either end up in the fair again, or take the uair in the face)
4) Avoid it: get wrecked by the uair following

Yes, you've understood, this is a rant about pikachu. Everything he has seems so broken and spammable, it's really annoying.

Who said Pikachu's forward air was bad? ^__^

 

[Sangoku]

clubbadubba I think. Maybe others too?

 

[MrMarbles]

i think his fair is under rated. People seem to think it's worse than it is. Still u can def di out and then follow up Sangoku. I think its just situational which direction is best and a follow up wont work 100% of the time. u will need to retreat sometimes

 

[mixa]

battlecow also says fair is bad

fair is decidedly bad when you hit a grounded opponent and your fair is gonna end before you touch the ground - i've seen good players do this sometimes

 

[Maliki]

If you approach with fair it can be good. Only use the first couple of hits in it though. Not the whole attack.

 

[clubbadubba]

fair is extremely useful as an approach vs falcon in my experience vs high level players. When falcon is doing is dash dance thing on the ground a well timed/spaced fair can really catch him off guard and lead to something good if you can chase his DI. Try not to hit it to high up, only a few hits is best.

clubba did not say pika fair is bad. clubba loves pika fair. get faired. JOLT-JOLT-JOLT-JOLT-JOLT-JOLT-JOLT (except just don't hit all the JOLTS!).

 

[Maliki]

Whats up guys.

I have a couple questions on the pika kirby match up.

1) Playing as pika on dreamland when you are spacing what should you do? Control the top platform?

2) I remember someone saying something like the best place to have kirby is below you. True or false..(When on dreamland and you are Pika)


That's all for now thanks for any help. If you need me to explain something in more detail just ask.

 

[kyletree]

I know this may be an odd request, but can someone who has a really consistent sliding short hop up air send me a video of your hands doing it? I've been practicing it in training mode for weeks, and I can get into a groove where I get it pretty consistently, but when I try to use it in a match, I accidentally up smash or full jump. The timing window is SO small, and I can't imagine being %100 confident that I would hit it. Is there a way to think about it that I'm not aware of? Thanks in advance

(ps. I'm using a hori, but I doubt that would make any difference)

 

[MrMarbles]

I know this may be an odd request, but can someone who has a really consistent sliding short hop up air send me a video of your hands doing it? I've been practicing it in training mode for weeks, and I can get into a groove where I get it pretty consistently, but when I try to use it in a match, I accidentally up smash or full jump. The timing window is SO small, and I can't imagine being %100 confident that I would hit it. Is there a way to think about it that I'm not aware of? Thanks in advance

(ps. I'm using a hori, but I doubt that would make any difference)

are u referring to sliding from the bottom c-button to the a button to perform a sh double u-air? personally i find using the r-trigger to aerial immediately after a jump to be easier to pull off because as you said the timing is very tight. If you aerial too quickly u will u-smash instead of aerial. i feel like its also easier to sh with my method because u don't have to worry about sliding your thumb off the c button so quickly to get the sh off. All u have to worry about is hitting the r trigger right after a regular sh. I remember it felt awkward to practice this way at first but once my index finger got stronger from practicing this over and over it feels right

 

[kyletree]

are you using a classic controller or a hori?

 

[MrMarbles]

are you using a classic controller or a hori?

classic. idk if that would make a difference

 

[Chaostatic]

classic. idk if that would make a difference

When I play with a Hori my pointer finger does not naturally rest on the r button. Maybe it does make a difference lol.

 

[kyletree]

ya the reason why I ask is cause I've tried it using r, and the only way to make it work is to make a claw motion so you can hit the edge of the buttons, but that doesn't really work on a hori. I'll give it another shot though. Do any of you guys slide instead?

 

[KeroKeroppi]

ya the reason why I ask is cause I've tried it using r, and the only way to make it work is to make a claw motion so you can hit the edge of the buttons, but that doesn't really work on a hori. I'll give it another shot though. Do any of you guys slide instead?

i only use r for grab and running upsmash

 

[Maliki]

Whats up guys.

I have a couple questions on the pika kirby match up.

1) Playing as pika on dreamland when you are spacing what should you do? Control the top platform?

2) I remember someone saying something like the best place to have kirby is below you. True or false..(When on dreamland and you are Pika)


That's all for now thanks for any help. If you need me to explain something in more detail just ask.

 

[MrMarbles]

Whats up guys.

I have a couple questions on the pika kirby match up.

1) Playing as pika on dreamland when you are spacing what should you do? Control the top platform?

2) I remember someone saying something like the best place to have kirby is below you. True or false..(When on dreamland and you are Pika)


That's all for now thanks for any help. If you need me to explain something in more detail just ask.

pika can hold his own against kirby on the ground, but spending time on the platforms definitely helps. idk what else to say about this really. The way u should fight a kirby depends alot on the kirby's playstyle. Try doing different things u wouldn't normally do and see where u can find success.

 

[Cedricwa]

Does anyone know an effective way of doing double verticle up B? (Besides against hyrule wall) I've read one thing about it but it was confusing and didn't help me any.

 

[clubbadubba]

stay above kirby at all times. Don't fall into an utilt. Then switch to falcon.

Does anyone know an effective way of doing double verticle up B? (Besides against hyrule wall) I've read one thing about it but it was confusing and didn't help me any.

I think you just have to move the stick all the way back to the middle in between pressing up twice. I don't recommend ever trying it in a serious setting, way too risky.

 

[leekslap]

So I'm trying to learn more characters since I only really like Mario and Samus. Tried Pikachu : turns out he's perfect. Can you give me some tips on him? I've skimmed through the thread, but I think I may have ignored some stuff on techniques so can you tell me all the techniques and stuff that hasn't been mentioned in this thread? Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[MrMarbles]

So I'm trying to learn more characters since I only really like Mario and Samus. Tried Pikachu : turns out he's perfect. Can you give me some tips on him? I've skimmed through the thread, but I think I may have ignored some stuff on techniques so can you tell me all the techniques and stuff that hasn't been mentioned in this thread? Thanks a lot in advance!

learn to aerial combo with pika. Too many pika mains cant even uair/nair chain. ummmm learn to sweet spot the ledge with up-b from all different areas. learn to sweet spot with both 1 and 2 up-b inputs. Learn to use pikas extended up-b. Learning just the up-b shenanigans will really help your recovery and gimping. Learn short hop double up-air and short hop nair->uair. Theres lots of other stuff but that's a good starting point. BTW i found samus and DK the best characters to practice aerial combos against

 

[leekslap]

learn to aerial combo with pika. Too many pika mains cant even uair/nair chain. ummmm learn to sweet spot the ledge with up-b from all different areas. learn to sweet spot with both 1 and 2 up-b inputs. Learn to use pikas extended up-b. Learning just the up-b shenanigans will really help your recovery and gimping. Learn short hop double up-air and short hop nair->uair. Theres lots of other stuff but that's a good starting point. BTW i found samus and DK the best characters to practice aerial combos against

Combos and controlling up b I have down. I need to mixup my up b angles and sweetspot more often, but still. I didn't know about double aerials though so thanks. Tell me the lots of stuff plz

 

[MrMarbles]

Combos and controlling up b I have down. I need to mixup my up b angles and sweetspot more often, but still. I didn't know about double aerials though so thanks. Tell me the lots of stuff plz

i decided to do some recording to show a few pika things. The video is completely raw cuz i just got a new comp and dont have video editing software yet so sorry about that. if u look in the video description it says what parts of the video covers what

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxcBdwwLqYo&feature=youtu.be

 

[leekslap]

i decided to do some recording to show a few pika things. The video is completely raw cuz i just got a new comp and dont have video editing software yet so sorry about that. if u look in the video description it says what parts of the video covers what

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxcBdwwLqYo&feature=youtu.be

Wow! Thanks for introducing me to your epic channel! Do the combos you were doing on Kirby work with other characters? Thanks again!

 

[MrMarbles]

Wow! Thanks for introducing me to your epic channel! Do the combos you were doing on Kirby work with other characters? Thanks again!

yes they work best against floaties like samus luigi mario jiggly. they work on heavies too but the % is different and it just works a bit differently on heavies

 

[S2rulL]

played in my first 64 tourney and got rocked. looks like netplay ain't enough. currently scouring ebay for an n64+cart+controller... also, pikachu feels hella different from emulator...

 

[MrMarbles]

played in my first 64 tourney and got rocked. looks like netplay ain't enough. currently scouring ebay for an n64+cart+controller... also, pikachu feels hella different from emulator...

i remember when switching from emu to console i would always sd alot cuz the up-b feels way different and i would miss the second input. if it feels drastically different to you then after you buy the n64 you should mess with your emu controller settings until it feels as close to console as possible. of course it will neverr be perfect due to frame delay

 

[S2rulL]

i remember when switching from emu to console i would always sd alot cuz the up-b feels way different and i would miss the second input. if it feels drastically different to you then after you buy the n64 you should mess with your emu controller settings until it feels as close to console as possible. of course it will neverr be perfect due to frame delay

yeah, it's also probs cus i was using a legit 64 controller and not a ps3 pad which made it feel all the more different...

 

[MrMarbles]

yeah, it's also probs cus i was using a legit 64 controller and not a ps3 pad which made it feel all the more different...

oh ya thatll make a huge difference. i play online with my n64 controller so the transition is a bit easier

 

[Capos]

i remember when switching from emu to console i would always sd alot cuz the up-b feels way different and i would miss the second input. if it feels drastically different to you then after you buy the n64 you should mess with your emu controller settings until it feels as close to console as possible. of course it will neverr be perfect due to frame delay

I started on console and don't remember a huge transition the other way, but this made me realize I haven't played console in about 2 1/2 months (i.e. when I first started playing online) so I just loaded up a game and oh god that was bad. I figured it out after a game or two but wow.

 

[MrMarbles]

I started on console and don't remember a huge transition the other way, but this made me realize I haven't played console in about 2 1/2 months (i.e. when I first started playing online) so I just loaded up a game and oh god that was bad. I figured it out after a game or two but wow.

yeah it always takes me awhile to transition between online and console. like at least a good hour for me tbh. i envy you for adjusting after one game

 

[Capos]

I should clarify, 1 game was just for me not to die every time I went off the ledge. I'm still screwing up combos and stuff. Guess I should make sure I don't take off two months before a tournament.

 

[Yobolight]

General flow chart/ tips for edge guarding Kirby as Pika?

 

[MrMarbles]

General flow chart/ tips for edge guarding Kirby as Pika?

this is a difficult edgegaurd and i'm probably not the best at it but ill try to break down what i do.

1. after knocking them off i jump on the side plat facing away from kirby to have a better height advantage

2. most kirbys try to recover high so as kirby gets close to stage i will quickly use both my jumps to see if i can get above them

• if this is successful and you get above kirby your chances of an edgegaurd are great. at this point the kirby will likely do 1 of 3 things

1. kirby tries to ff to the ledge. be ready for this. if you get above a kirby he will probably ff to the ledge. immediately use your ff and you can dair them b4 they reach the ledge. make sure you land on stage with your dair incase they see what is happening and try to retreat away from stage. as long as you land on stage you are in position to land a fsmash/ftilt or bair when they make a 2nd attempt
2. kirby tries to lunge forward with a nair or fair. Be ready or this. In fact try to bait them into this. if they lunge forward with an aerial and you avoid it you are now in position to bair/uair/dair.
3. noob kirby tries to suck you in. if you are playing a kirby that you know will try to suck you in, just jump towards them to bait it out, then land back on the main stage and get ready or an easy fsmash/ftilt/bair

• if the kirby sees that you attempt to jump above them and quickly uses jumps to stay above, you are now in a vulnerable position. It may be tempting to snipe them with an uair as they are falling but avoid this option as a smart kirby will try to bait an uair and then dair you. Your best option if you fail to get above them is to retreat back to the side platform. from here you can try jump back at them again and see if you can bait out an aerial. if not you may need to let the kirby back on stage and return to neutral. as a mixup you can also platdrop thunder (platdrop so you have platform protection if you miss). This probably wont get you an edgegaurd unless they are very high damage, but it will get you some extra free damage.

3. Some players may try to recover low by using all or most of their jumps and then sweet spotting the ledge. It is important to understand that this kirby is trying to bait out an fsmash. In this situation you should never fsmash unless you know they are out of jumps. ftilt is almost always a better option in this situation. even if your ftilt misses you usually have time to throw out another ftilt before they have time to grab the ledge. (you could also dtilt but i feel ftilt covers more space vertically). As a mixup you can stand on main stage and act like you are going for an ftilt edgegaurd and then quickly run off uair as they get close to stage. Do not do this too often because it can be punished if the kirby knows its coming.


Wow that was a really long answer but the truth is its a complicated edgegaurd. Pika has all the tools to edgegaurd kirby but only if the pika can outsmart and outmaneuver the kirby. Personally i love this game situation and is one of the main reasons i love playing the pika/kirby matchup so much.

 

[kyletree]

@ MrMarbles just a heads up, its faster to go up in the training mode menu instead of down

 

[MrMarbles]

@ MrMarbles just a heads up, its faster to go up in the training mode menu instead of down

damn im such a scrub

 

[MrMarbles]

Not sure if this is well known or not but i recently realized that if you are standing in the teetering animation on either side of dreamland and you do a slanted full hop towards the side platform you will get a ledge cancel on the inner part of the side plat every time. It's really easy to perform. You just have to jump and push fully sideways on the thumbstick throughout the jump and you will ledge cancel. Doesn't work when the wind is blowing tho.

 

[MrMarbles]

yesterday i realized that pika can actually combo fthrow into another grab at 0% against falcon! And im not talking about when you throw falcon just over the edge of the stage and then regrab im talking about doing this on center stage. The timing is pretty tight but i was really shocked when i realized this works. Is this something that is known? Ive never heard of this before or seen it in a match

 

[The Star King]

Never seen it. Try to post a vid maybe? I couldn't get it. If it's possible, probably frame perfect or some ****.

 

[MrMarbles]

Never seen it. Try to post a vid maybe? I couldn't get it. If it's possible, probably frame perfect or some ****.

i dont think its frame perfect, but you have to grab an instant sooner than what it feels like is the right timing

 

[Cedricwa]

yesterday i realized that pika can actually combo fthrow into another grab at 0% against falcon! And im not talking about when you throw falcon just over the edge of the stage and then regrab im talking about doing this on center stage. The timing is pretty tight but i was really shocked when i realized this works. Is this something that is known? Ive never heard of this before or seen it in a match

I think I've seen boom do this in one video