Picking up Greninja as Secondary/Co-main

[Mega-Xander]

I'm a Mario main, but I've wanted to pick up Greninja since the beginning of smash 4 (huge Pokémon fan), but I've always struggles to use him...

Any advice for someone who's just starting to use Greninja? Approach options, characters Greninja can beat in the neutral, best KO option etc.

Also, when would shadow sneak be viable? 'Cause I really like the move, but I would only ever use it as a mix up in strings and as a kind of counter option

 

[Snackss]

Here are some previous threads on the same subject, though they're before his most recent buffs.

http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-tips.400607/

http://smashboards.com/threads/considering-greninja-as-a-main.399814/

The main buff was for Shuriken. It starts up 5 frames faster so it's much easier to throw it out uncharged in neutral. Down throw also got buffed but it's not as integral as shuriken.

Get used to his movement and not being able to shield grab. Spaced forward air is one of his main tools; it needs to be done while jumping straight up, if you float forward it won't be safe on shield. He doesn't really have approach options the way you might expect someone to. His aerials aren't safe while moving forward other than crossup neutral air, so you need to mix people up with his movement, knock them off balance with shuriken, and always look for dash grab opportunities. Best KO option is up smash; against a decent number of characters it combos out of down tilt around 80-90%. Sourspot neutral air also combos into up smash at similar percents, and into forward air at various other percents depending on how fast you are. Up throw doesn't KO until around 150-160% without Rage, but it's his KO throw so remember it. Down throw to forward air is a true combo at about 130% if they don't DI. His forward smash has a pretty fast startup (10 frames I think) and is disjointed, so it's also one of his better KO options as a punish.

Shadow Sneak is a read or a punish. Make people think you're vulnerable and then teleport backwards or forwards and hit them. You get a feel for when to use it the more you play.

 

[Y2Kay]

to add on to what snacks said, nair has low ending landing, and water shuriken is great for edgeguarding. Use should use a quick shadow sneak as an air dodge if you want. And here's a neat trick. If someone's edgeguarding you with projectiles, you can use substitute as an extra form of recovery by tapping right on the control stick after the projectile hits your counter stance. I mainly use this for greninja dittos, but I would imagine it would be useful for other matchups like pit.

 

[FullMoon]

to add on to what snacks said, nair autocancels on landing.

No it doesn't.

 

[Y2Kay]

Whoops, I'll correct that