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Let me start by saying that I have been a Smashboards member for a long time, but have never seen the need to create a thread until now. I'm an active Smash Wii U/3DS player in the SoCal region, and I would very much like to main the Mii Brawler in tournament. However, after just attending my fourth tournament where Miis were banned, I feel like there needs to be a consensus on the status of Miis, and a way for them to be allowed in tourney.
I believe that the best way currently is to allow the Default/Sample Miis that come premade on every console to be allowed in tourney. A Mii player can simply choose one of these characters to use (no 3DS involved at all) and make their Brawler/Swordfighter/Gunner from them. A player can practice against these Mii characters at home very easily if they want to learn how to fight this matchup, and in this way, for now, Mii height/width can be standardized.
I have spoken to Champ and Mac D, two TOs from my region and they both seemed to react positively to this idea, but wanted to see if other people agreed as well. So I'm simply asking for those who comment to let me know if this is a good solution to allowing Miis as playable characters. Thanks!
Tell Champ that t0mmy says to stop being a killjoy for the players and just let them play the game.
And also that I say hi from up north X^D
But really, what's the point in telling people not to play characters or limiting them from playing or making up arbitrary rules that just make things not fun? Maybe they think they're doing what people want, but really look at the numbers and they run like 90% to stop limiting/banning Mii - pretty much nobody wants that kind of dictatorship at events!
There really isn't any gentle way to put this: Real people are not complaining about heigh/weight differences between Mii, it's just a crutch for people who are ban-happy to rely on.
The same people will grasp at straws to ban any character and have jumped on similar ridiculous reasons to ban Diddy Kong, Lucario, Rosalina, Little Mac, etc.
The only difference with the Mii is that TO's get confused that some kind of "Customizing" is going on - it's not: Custom Fighters: Off doesn't get rid of the Mii character, it's just a regular character that has a different appearance depending on the user.
People want to have fun and play the game, I'd say to tell your local TO to stop pandering to the ban-happy scrubs and just let people play. Call 'em out on being scrubby, for serious, ban/limit require a criteria to be met and no character meets that criteria to date so to ban/limit in any way is just being scrubby - competitors don't want scrubbery! Haha.
Good luck.
Edit: Also the poll was very poorly written. It basically gives the option of banning them limiting them or limiting them now with an option to lift the limit in the future.
No option to just allow Mii to be played unrestricted.
Just having the poll makes it look like there's some kind of issue that needs to be addressed when really the only issue is people trying to ban/limit characters all the time which is a ridiculous antic to pull off in competition.
I wouldn't play as them in tournaments, but I can understand why they are banned.
1. It takes extra time to setup the specials on each system during a tournament.
2. Some Mii skins could be designed (intentionally/unintentionally) to blend in to backgrounds.
I can see it being fine if:
12 Miis are created on each Wii U, basic features. brawler 1, all 1 specials, brawler 2, all 2 specials, etc.
How many colors are their on Wii U's again? If 12 or more, for tournaments each one could be designated.
(IE. Red is always brawler 1, Blue is always brawler 2, etc.)
Just a thought, I'm sure the community could build on something like this to make it playable.
I think TOs are banning the Miis because they just don't know enough about them. If you're happy with playing Mario or whoever else, you've probably never even made a Mii fighter let alone know about their differences or how they're used competitively.
I didn't include an option for custom moveset Miis, and I didn't think about that method dawgbowl, because currently most if not all tourneys on the West Coast ban custom moves. I was just trying to come up with a way for people to play and get used to playing against a standard Mii who uses the 1111 moveset.
Miis are playable characters who have a standard configuration and are not overpowered. End, of, story. Though a variety of miis being allowed would be ideal, that's clearly not going to happen with our back roomses' history of being conservative when it comes to these things.
I actually consider Mii Gunner one of my secondaries.
When I hear "conservative" I think of someone who stays as close to (conserves) the original gameplay. Whereas being a scrub describes people who make up out-of-game rules to impose on people that limit them without reason.
No reason to ban/limit Mii, so anyone who does so is just being scrubby in the eyes of competitive players - but that doesn't mean some won't get away with it X^D
I am completely fine with the idea of mii characters yes there might be some setup involved or one or two moves that at some point that may have to be banned but isnt that the way with almost any competitive game?
When I hear "conservative" I think of someone who stays as close to (conserves) the original gameplay. Whereas being a scrub describes people who make up out-of-game rules to impose on people that limit them without reason.
No reason to ban/limit Mii, so anyone who does so is just being scrubby in the eyes of competitive players - but that doesn't mean some won't get away with it X^D
I was just thinking "conservative" as in "Republican" – allowing less for the sake of stability. The Smash community tends to tilt towards this as time passes - remember when things like Kongo Jungle 64, Corneria, and Rainbow Cruise were legal in Melee? Remember when stages other than just Dream Land and Dream Land only were allowed in 64? Those phased out because conservative smashers began to gain more influence over time. To some, it's boring and the reason nobody except us takes competitive Smash seriously. To them, eliminating all possible variables is the only way to make sure matches are completely stable and fair.
I've always been a "liberal/Democratic" when it comes to Smash rulesets - allowing more personal freedoms while perceiving potential consequences as insignificant or not actually there. That means things like customs and some stage hazards are fine with me.
(This is just for the sake of metaphor. When it comes to actual politics, I'm unaffiliated with any party.)
I was just thinking "conservative" as in "Republican" – allowing less for the sake of stability. The Smash community tends to tilt towards this as time passes - remember when things like Kongo Jungle 64, Corneria, and Rainbow Cruise were legal in Melee? Remember when stages other than just Dream Land and Dream Land only were allowed in 64? Those phased out because conservative smashers began to gain more influence over time. To some, it's boring and the reason nobody except us takes competitive Smash seriously. To them, eliminating all possible variables is the only way to make sure matches are completely stable and fair.
Oh, ok.
I'm going to go off on a tangent here, but collapse it into a spoiler to keep it separate, please read my thoughts on the matter of the political analogy you set if you'd like:
Conservative is (or was) supposed to mean the same politically where people were interested in preserving the original "rules" of the country which stressed freedom over tyranny, very simple concept - but leave it to those tyrants to co-opt the organization and throw out the mass media to say that conservative means something completely different to create a left/right paradigm where both sides serve one master (conservative/republican is no different in their goals than liberal/democrats ultimately you will be enslaved but it is your flavor of enslavement).
What we get is actually referred to more accurately as "neo conservatives", the new type of conservative "RINO" (Republican in Name Only, not in what they actually value - Republican simply refers to "not a monarchy" which is what we have disguised as with a left/right paradigm).
Yes, I remember having to deal with such Stages as Corneria and Rainbow Cruise and I knew then that those Stages were not going to last (same with Brinstar and other competitively questionable Stages).
I don't think it's so much due to a paradigm shift where "conservatives" just gained more power, but I see it that reasonably staying true to competitive values these Stages will necessarily be removed - rewarding players for skillful victory is a prime element of competition so it is unreasonable to reward a victory to somehow who won outside their control (i.e. the Stage's environmental hazard rather than Player interaction).
I've always been a "liberal/Democratic" when it comes to Smash rulesets - allowing more personal freedoms while perceiving potential consequences as insignificant or not actually there. That means things like customs and some stage hazards are fine with me.
If you are a Smash "Democrat" you are essentially saying to me that you want to allow a majority rules type of mob mentality. Democratically speaking if 51% of the people want less stages then you are saying you readily accept that even though it is completely contrary to your personal desire to have more stages (though still within the democratic party lines). This is why I do not support democracy because I recognize that the majority of people actually are not experts on matters and will not make good decisions as far as liberties go (three wolves and a sheep deciding on dinner).
I hope you forgive my verbose writeup on this, but just because you want a more "fun" game does not dictate that everyone in the society must abide by your ideals (unless we all want a dictatorship and you taking all the weight of decision-making on your shoulders). But I'm not sure the rest of the Smash Community would like that and you'd probably meet with a considerable resistance (which would probably be as simple as ignoring your demands).
But since you said you believe in freedom freedoms then you've essentially said you are both conservative (in the non neo-con sense) and liberal (in the original Thomas Jefferson sense of liberty) and it should make sense to you now that the Democrat and Republican parties were both one and the same "Democratic Republicans" which was politically attacked, broken in two, and made into a divide-and-conquer left/right paradigm which is the hallmark of every failed society breaking down personal liberty/freedom into a more socialized structure which evolves into a dictatorship and eventually a fascist regime tolerated only so long before a revolution occurs and the process starts all over again.
I too am unaffiliated with any political party, but probably for differing reasons (though maybe not if we don't look too much into the details).
We don't need to know because majority rule does not have more weight than Competitive Standard.
Reason dictates to the standard and everything is weighed based on this reasoning, just because the majority of people may have voted to ban a character does not equate to it being reasonable.
Not only does the picture (from whatever source) not show the values of the vote, just a visual representation (we actually have no idea a true value without the % quantified, this is a trick used by media to sway opinion - not saying this is the case, but stating how it is a possibility) but even if the majority is ruling for a ban, then all that is saying is a majority wants a ban FOR ANY REASON, EVEN AN ILLOGICAL/NON-COMPETITIVE/WRONG REASON.
I will tell you that if given the opportunity to gain advantage in a competition (such as Smash tournaments) then competitors will take that option no matter how unreasonable. To ban a character essentially gives an advantage to not have to know the matchup, negate the possibility of ever losing to said character, and limit their opponents - of course it would stand to be probable that most competitors will vote an emphatic YES - it probably does not matter WHICH character, just as long as it is not THEIR character so they get an unfair advantage.
TL;DR: Majority rule is never good for the majority. Reason/logic should be the dictators of our decisions, not the status quo.
My problem with that poll (btw it was compulsory, everyone who registered in the tournament answered it, so it's from a pool of 1000+ people around the world) is not relative to the Competitive Standard.
My problem is that the next big online tournament, hopefully to occur in a few months, won't have Miis available because of this dumb reason :\ and then the ones who want to ban Miis will have one more argument, saying "See? The online TO banned Miis!" which is stupid, I know, but I wanted to avoid this sort of thing.
I was just so sure most people would vote "yes" or "I don't know" that I guess I was just shocked.
Why do Miis even need to be banned? I know a guy that is legitimate with Mii, and now he might be restricted from entering tourneys with Mii for no reason whatsoever.
It's like this community is shuning out some of the possible talent that smash 4 needs.
Due to a really close vote, we had to vote in favor of allowing Miis. Based on the number of players that main Mii, most players will not end up having to face any in the tournament. However, you must abide by the following rules if you are playing as a Mii.
Miis will only be able to use their 1-1-1-1, 2-2-2-2, or 3-3-3-3 loadouts.
All Miis must be created with the proper guest Mii at their default size:
Swordfighter: Guest B
Brawler: Guest C
Gunner: Guest F
Miis must use their default outfits.
The name of your Mii must match the name of the custom load-out you are using. Ex: A Mii with a 1-1-1-1 load-out should be named 1-1-1-1
If you change to a different load-out during counter-picking, the load-out you have chosen must be announced. Treat it as changing to a new character.
I'm very glad to see how Apex and other tourneys are allowing for Miis to be played. Since making this post I have attended two more locals where Miis were banned, so hopefully people see how these big tourneys are handling Miis and follow suit.
The change in the Apex ruleset allowing 2222 and 3333 Miis seems kind of odd, and I don't quite understand yet if you can use any Sample/Default Mii or if it has to be A. Regardless, I'm just glad they're being open to more diversity.
Also, I'm very angry with DaPuffster! I was hoping to be the first person on stream showing off a Vegeta Mii lol! Seriously, though, props to him for playing some creative lookin' Miis in tourney.
I'm very glad to see how Apex and other tourneys are allowing for Miis to be played. Since making this post I have attended two more locals where Miis were banned, so hopefully people see how these big tourneys are handling Miis and follow suit.
The change in the Apex ruleset allowing 2222 and 3333 Miis seems kind of odd, and I don't quite understand yet if you can use any Sample/Default Mii or if it has to be A. Regardless, I'm just glad they're being open to more diversity.
That would definitely be great if EVO turned out to be the first big tourney featuring custom Miis! I've been to two EVOs so far for Marvel 3 and they always do a great job it seems.
As someone with more experience in the Smash community, do you believe that TOs are banning custom Miis because they feel they are hard to actually practice against/will be complained about, or do you think it's because they believe it takes too much time to transfer them onto a Wii U?
As someone with more experience in the Smash community, do you believe that TOs are banning custom Miis because they feel they are hard to actually practice against/will be complained about, or do you think it's because they believe it takes too much time to transfer them onto a Wii U?
