Patriot Act. Good or Bad?

[Chaco]

Over six years ago, the nation was still reeling from the events of September 11th and facing a terrifying series of anthrax attacks. With that being the case, Congress passed the USA Patriot Act with little debate. Since then, however, the Patriot Act has been under heavy debate. Law enforcement believes the Patriot Act has helped to keep America safe, but critics fear it may, in the long run, weaken the constitutional protections that it was intended to help protect. It many ways the Patriot Act is good, but at many point that falters. How do you know when it is too much? Could it become something almost like martial law?

The Patriot act allows agents to:

• Get personal records of anyone related to a terrorism investigation
• Search and even seize someone's property without telling them for up to two weeks
• Tap into a suspect's electronic communication -- from cell phones and computers to personal digital assistants
• Allows non-citizens to be detained for seven days without charges
• Provides for some of this to be done under search warrants issued by a secret court

So the Patriot Act undid some constraints on law enforcement.

So, are you for or against the Patriot Act?

 

[Crimson King]

Completely, utterly, totally, unquestionably against it.

As Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

By giving up a few personal liberties and the support of the idea of "I have nothing to hide," you are allowing the government to overstep it's boundaries. Right now, you have nothing to hide, but what happens when the government decides you are the enemy. For now, it's just "terrorist," but really, what defines a "terrorist." Terrorist are by nature invisible and insidious. We will never see them until it's time for them to strike. By allowing the Patriot Act we are letting the terrorists win. We are giving them the power to restrain our freedoms.

Don't post your sig. Last warning.

 

[Chaco]

Completely, utterly, totally, unquestionably against it.

As Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

By giving up a few personal liberties and the support of the idea of "I have nothing to hide," you are allowing the government to overstep it's boundaries. Right now, you have nothing to hide, but what happens when the government decides you are the enemy. For now, it's just "terrorist," but really, what defines a "terrorist." Terrorist are by nature invisible and insidious. We will never see them until it's time for them to strike. By allowing the Patriot Act we are letting the terrorists win. We are giving them the power to restrain our freedoms.

Don't post your sig. Last warning.

I agree with what you said, although there are redeemable qualities. It orders a tripling of border agents, customs service and immigration agents on America's vulnerable borders. It prescribed some new banking regulations that could cut down on terrorist funding schemes. And it forces federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies to cooperate. These facts help it's overall case, but the liberties it has taken away far outnumbers what we have gained.

And sorry about the sig.

 

[Crimson King]

Ending immigration, whether legal or not, is the worst thing that can happen to the US. Our economy is run off of Illegal Immigrants. We take that away, we cripple our economy worse than any terror organization could.

 

[Chaco]

Ending immigration, whether legal or not, is the worst thing that can happen to the US. Our economy is run off of Illegal Immigrants. We take that away, we cripple our economy worse than any terror organization could.

I truly do not see the complete reasoning there, will you elaborate?

 

[Crimson King]

Construction, agriculture, and factory workers are mostly illegal Mexican immigrants who were for comparatively less than what Americans would, but they do a better job out of fear of losing what little money they get. Because of this cheap labor, our goods can be offered cheaply. If you eliminate all immigrant workers you will hurt the production of many foods, plenty buildings, and a lot of textiles that we rely on. It's a necessary evil at this point for us.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Well, with the patriot act, it seems it was important in the darker days of our war with terrorism, but now, we could function without it, so, it did good in the beginning, but now we should loosen up and let it fade away, as right now, it is not such a critical policy.
Also, ending immigration would seem hypocritical in the US.

 

[Chaco]

Construction, agriculture, and factory workers are mostly illegal Mexican immigrants who were for comparatively less than what Americans would, but they do a better job out of fear of losing what little money they get. Because of this cheap labor, our goods can be offered cheaply. If you eliminate all immigrant workers you will hurt the production of many foods, plenty buildings, and a lot of textiles that we rely on. It's a necessary evil at this point for us.

Hmm, that's an excellent point. But when will it stop, over time we will become crowded and these jobs will be filled, then what of them? Will they finally do something about it when it's too late?

 

[lonejedi]

Completely, utterly, totally, unquestionably against it.

As Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

By giving up a few personal liberties and the support of the idea of "I have nothing to hide," you are allowing the government to overstep it's boundaries. Right now, you have nothing to hide, but what happens when the government decides you are the enemy. For now, it's just "terrorist," but really, what defines a "terrorist." Terrorist are by nature invisible and insidious. We will never see them until it's time for them to strike. By allowing the Patriot Act we are letting the terrorists win. We are giving them the power to restrain our freedoms.

Don't post your sig. Last warning.

Ok I can see where you are coming from, but what do we do then instead of the Patriot Act. Many people are quick to attack the Patriot Act, but what possible way do you expect to fight terrorists? Do we just hope we don't get attacked? I'm pretty sure Franklin didn't have to deal with terrorist bombers during the beginning years of our country.

 

[Crimson King]

Nothing. The Patriot Act is just like the McCarthy hearings - needless intrusion by the government. Out of the 1,000s of people affected by the Red Scare, maybe 10% were communists. With the Patriot Act we can boast even less success. Fact is terrorism will never die, so why ruin our lives just to hopefully catch one or two? That's basically soiling the memory of those who died in 9/11. We were attacked because we can't keep our **** out of other people's ****.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Probably the main reason all this Middle East Stuff is going on is because of our involvement with the Shah in Iran and our let's attack Russia with Afghanistan scheme cooked up by some jiggallo Senator, seriously, it was thought up by a guy who did pretty much nothing but drink and have err....fun...with girls.
Too bad we just had to get back at Russia and stuff, or we could have a much different skyline at New York today.
Anyway, I doubt we need the Patriot Act, as much as we needed it several years back, today, we could go without.

 

[Chaco]

Probably the main reason all this Middle East Stuff is going on is because of our involvement with the Shah in Iran and our let's attack Russia with Afghanistan scheme cooked up by some jiggallo Senator, seriously, it was thought up by a guy who did pretty much nothing but drink and have err....fun...with girls.
Too bad we just had to get back at Russia and stuff, or we could have a much different skyline at New York today.
Anyway, I doubt we need the Patriot Act, as much as we needed it several years back, today, we could go without.

I see your reasoning, but the way you presented it was awful.

What's your reasoning there? I do not think we need to the Patriot Act either. But I have my reasons, please post yours. My reasons are, the vast invasion of privacy that can occur, they could just name you a suspect and get all of your information. I don't think that is morally right. But who has morals in politics?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Completely, utterly, totally, unquestionably against it.

As Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

By giving up a few personal liberties and the support of the idea of "I have nothing to hide," you are allowing the government to overstep it's boundaries. Right now, you have nothing to hide, but what happens when the government decides you are the enemy. For now, it's just "terrorist," but really, what defines a "terrorist." Terrorist are by nature invisible and insidious. We will never see them until it's time for them to strike. By allowing the Patriot Act we are letting the terrorists win. We are giving them the power to restrain our freedoms.

I agree with this entire post. The goal of terrorism is to make a big deal. After 9/11, America became desperate and paranoid, much as a starving group of people would resort to cannibalism. As a result of the bombings, we limited our freedom, inconvenienced ourselves further (security at airports, and so on), and began to racially profile our own citizens. The Patriot Act didn't solve anything; it only multiplied the damage from the attack.

I have an Iranian friend whose internet was tapped by the government for months after the Patriot Act. Not because there was anything implying that he might be a terrorist, and not an ordinary citizen, but because he is Muslim and of Arab descent.