Patch 1.1.3

[Vyrnx]

Can we keep this **** out of here. Dash attack? A dash attack a lot of characters wish they could have. You have your free pick of moves that have actual issues, and you pick dash attack. Second ****ing time, and don't even act like you have a clue what you're talking about with this character please.

We don't need more of this **** everywhere. We have to have idiots talking about crap "issues" like hit boxes, whining and crying, and not looking at serious issues this character has, or stuff this character actually has going for her. The reason we have such a stigma around this character. If you're a Samus "main" whining about the hit box on dash attack, get ****ing good or switch characters. After a while you start to realize up b is a move with some rare issues, and all of her other hit box issues are scrubs who can't play and want easy answers. ******* that lose matches and whine about hit boxes as an excuse.

Getting awfully annoying. You're the reason why people can't see what this character is, because you're infesting our boards with dumb **** you saw an awful Samus player do on fg.

 

[JAZZ_]

Can we keep this **** out of here. Dash attack? A dash attack a lot of characters wish they could have. You have your free pick of moves that have actual issues, and you pick dash attack. Second ****ing time, and don't even act like you have a clue what you're talking about with this character please.

We don't need more of this **** everywhere. We have to have idiots talking about crap "issues" like hit boxes, whining and crying, and not looking at serious issues this character has, or stuff this character actually has going for her. The reason we have such a stigma around this character. If you're a Samus "main" whining about the hit box on dash attack, get ****ing good or switch characters. After a while you start to realize up b is a move with some rare issues, and all of her other hit box issues are scrubs who can't play and want easy answers. ******* that lose matches and whine about hit boxes as an excuse.

Getting awfully annoying. You're the reason why people can't see what this character is, because you're infesting our boards with dumb **** you saw an awful Samus player do on fg.

woah woah, easy with the rage, lets not get out of hand here. No need for senseless words. you can make a point without flying of the handle.

 

[Vyrnx]

Yeah sorry. I'll try to explain differently and tone it down a little.

Samus gets so much crap for hitboxes when her hitboxes aren't even bad (hurtboxes on the other hand...). There is no way that the hitbox on dash attack should be criticized, people can't come here and get away with that. That hitbox, its duration in relation to FAF and burst momentum, is what makes it so good. It fits Samus' archetype perfectly since it's a midrange option. When I see videos complaining about how Falcon's comes out faster than Samus', come on. Samus' dash attack is so much better than Falcon's, they should be the ones complaining. If you understand so little about a move, why are you on the Samus boards? The only way he would consistently see Samus players whiff a dash attack is For Glory. In which case, if you don't have any experience against good Samus players, don't come here and give us your opinion of the character and pretend you know what you're talking about.

Another thing. In that hitbox video a while back, it shows a spark coming off of Falcon in a very specific frame of dash attack, and Falcon doesn't get hit. A) This is too specific to matter. B) Sheik's fair does the exact same thing.

I could flip this back, "I cry a little every time I see Jiggs use a dash attack. I thought Samus had it bad, but at least she has a dash attack with burst momentum, a huge hitbox, and crazy combo potential on a move that crosses up shields and gives a freaking 20 frame punish window, and it also kills at 160 with rage."

Dash attacks in general are not strong, so Samus' dash attack is only as good as dash attacks go, but the only dash attack that is better than Samus' is MK's because of his kill combo. So again, don't come here and tell us how bad it is when you have no actual knowledge of how dash attacks work.

That hitbox video is cancer, disgusting. You could make one of those for any character, show all these tiny things that don't matter, and make them look horrible. And then months and months later, people will still be crying. Up b has the worst issues right now (not horrible though...), usmash will still occasionally screw up, and as far as hitboxes go, that is all that ever affects this character. Hurtboxes are a significantly bigger issue. Samus' "combo throw" not working well at all, small windows with which to combo moves, silly frame data on grabs / some other stuff...

People need to get used to Samus' CQC punish game sucking. If someone hits your shield right in front of you, out of up b range, it's generally not a good idea to try to grab (and for idiots out there, don't dash attack). Dtilt is pretty much all we get. If you're whiffing grabs, that is your fault for using a move with 16 frames of start up lag. If you're getting punished too hard for whiffing grabs, that's a design flaw. But that's the tight rope Samus walks, if you make smart decisions you will do fine, if you make small errors you will be unreasonably punished. But it's something we have to deal with. As of right now Samus gets very little off throws, so is it really worth the risk vs reward? I'm actually asking now, because I honestly think it's better to use fthrow or bthrow instead of dthrow almost every time. DungeonMaster says we still get combos if they DI away, idk if that is the case but if it is I need to work on that a lot.

In the mean time, I am so sick and tired of people coming here looking for likes and laughs with the Samus mains, especially when they're criticizing dash attack, holy crap. We don't need any of that, go to a social thread.

 

[Xygonn]

Yeah sorry. I'll try to explain differently and tone it down a little.

Samus gets so much crap for hitboxes when her hitboxes aren't even bad (hurtboxes on the other hand...). There is no way that the hitbox on dash attack should be criticized, people can't come here and get away with that. That hitbox, its duration in relation to FAF and burst momentum, is what makes it so good. It fits Samus' archetype perfectly since it's a midrange option. When I see videos complaining about how Falcon's comes out faster than Samus', come on. Samus' dash attack is so much better than Falcon's, they should be the ones complaining. If you understand so little about a move, why are you on the Samus boards? The only way he would consistently see Samus players whiff a dash attack is For Glory. In which case, if you don't have any experience against good Samus players, don't come here and give us your opinion of the character and pretend you know what you're talking about.

Another thing. In that hitbox video a while back, it shows a spark coming off of Falcon in a very specific frame of dash attack, and Falcon doesn't get hit. A) This is too specific to matter. B) Sheik's fair does the exact same thing.

I could flip this back, "I cry a little every time I see Jiggs use a dash attack. I thought Samus had it bad, but at least she has a dash attack with burst momentum, a huge hitbox, and crazy combo potential on a move that crosses up shields and gives a freaking 20 frame punish window, and it also kills at 160 with rage."

Dash attacks in general are not strong, so Samus' dash attack is only as good as dash attacks go, but the only dash attack that is better than Samus' is MK's because of his kill combo. So again, don't come here and tell us how bad it is when you have no actual knowledge of how dash attacks work.

That hitbox video is cancer, disgusting. You could make one of those for any character, show all these tiny things that don't matter, and make them look horrible. And then months and months later, people will still be crying. Up b has the worst issues right now (not horrible though...), usmash will still occasionally screw up, and as far as hitboxes go, that is all that ever affects this character. Hurtboxes are a significantly bigger issue. Samus' "combo throw" not working well at all, small windows with which to combo moves, silly frame data on grabs / some other stuff...

People need to get used to Samus' CQC punish game sucking. If someone hits your shield right in front of you, out of up b range, it's generally not a good idea to try to grab (and for idiots out there, don't dash attack). Dtilt is pretty much all we get. If you're whiffing grabs, that is your fault for using a move with 16 frames of start up lag. If you're getting punished too hard for whiffing grabs, that's a design flaw. But that's the tight rope Samus walks, if you make smart decisions you will do fine, if you make small errors you will be unreasonably punished. But it's something we have to deal with. As of right now Samus gets very little off throws, so is it really worth the risk vs reward? I'm actually asking now, because I honestly think it's better to use fthrow or bthrow instead of dthrow almost every time. DungeonMaster says we still get combos if they DI away, idk if that is the case but if it is I need to work on that a lot.

In the mean time, I am so sick and tired of people coming here looking for likes and laughs with the Samus mains, especially when they're criticizing dash attack, holy crap. We don't need any of that, go to a social thread.

Yeah, on DI away you have to enter the dash animation before you jump into the aerials. But if they DI in, then you can't catch them with the dash to jump to bair.

Depending on the situation and what moves are fresh, once they are near kill percent I either dthrow to air dodge read, fthrow or bthrow for an offstage gimp, or uthrow and fish for upb off air dodge or poor offensive option.

 

[Vyrnx]

Yeah, on DI away you have to enter the dash animation before you jump into the aerials. But if they DI in, then you can't catch them with the dash to jump to bair.

Depending on the situation and what moves are fresh, once they are near kill percent I either dthrow to air dodge read, fthrow or bthrow for an offstage gimp, or uthrow and fish for upb off air dodge or poor offensive option.

I know you have to dash a little when they do no DI, so if they DI away do you just dash longer?

 

[Xygonn]

I know you have to dash a little when they do no DI, so if they DI away do you just dash longer?

Yeah, and unless you are god at tilting up, you'll need to use your c-stick set to attack to buffer your attack as you jump to avoid usmashing.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Vyrnx Yep, as Xygonn pointed out it is indeed a combo throw, and outward DI can be beat, it's just really, really tight, like 1-2 frames.
The length of dash, is sadly also percentage dependent. It also depends on opponent hurtbox, I'll go into the gory details in the upcoming video.
I too wish it were an easier combo to master, it's a bit silly I keep having to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er3eVCqVu80#t=109 you can see the dash dust burst when these land.
If your opponent is a serial DI-outwards air-dodge *******, and you're not yet confident in your initial dash execution, you can and should jump at them and frame trap them with d-air or CS.
Because the timing is so insanely tight, they can't safely throw out a hitbox, and so it is one of our few true frame traps.
I also advocate pummels to throw off DI and up-throw at no-combo higher percents, but again, I need a bit more time...

 

[S.P.A.D.]

At about 40-60% I find myself D-Throwing to see what the other player will do, and how they react. Personally I don't use her forward or back throw as much as I probably should, but I tend to want them a bit closer for some reason.

Also thanks for the frame trap tip Dungeon Master, should be helpful.

 

[White_Pointer]

I too find myself using forward or back throw more often than down throw these days...if for no other reason than creating space or getting them off stage. I'll still use a down throw every now and then to try to combo from it but I'm finding that less and less reliable.

If only she actually had a kill throw...like having her up throw kill. One can dream.

 

[Tonetta]

Semi related: https://twitter.com/Vivaciously7/status/682442050021752832

 

[Hark17ball]

Semi related: https://twitter.com/Vivaciously7/status/682442050021752832

Wow, that's terrible.

 

[White_Pointer]

There's really no reason for her throws to be so bad. They need to fix her throws and give her grab the Lucas treatment, because at the moment it's high risk for no reward.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Personally, I would like to see dash attack be improved a little. Literally the only change I would like is bringing it back to its Brawl startup to remove its blindspot.
Other than that buffs she really needs are improvements to her Ftilt, grab and Up B.
Ftilt, at launch, was a fantastic move that received a very poor sourspot in exchange for a stronger sweetspot. Grab could use some improvements a la Link so its not such a terrible option, and UpB deserves a little more power.

 

[Tonetta]

Our dash attack is already insanely good, leads into almost every come we have available with excellent frame data.

Sour spot tilt gives us jablock options that are practical against every character in the game and works well into kill percentages. It also prattacks into extremely early gimps.

 

[JAZZ_]

I agree that dash isn't anything to gripe about, I may miss all the time but thats my bad for not paying attention to my spacing. why not look at why on earth we have invisible extending hurtboxes. that gets me blown away by a move that im clearly safe from but im doing the start up animations of uptilt or ftilt and i get hit because the hurtbox extends before the character does or fsmash's hurtbox extends past its hitbox, to me thats more vital to look at than dash attack.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Grab could use some improvements a la Link so its not such a terrible option, and UpB deserves a little more power.

Basically every other character in the game has gotten my personal wishlist.
Dash attack is a great move as is, it's designed to combo very well, I understand the frustration of missing, but really if they touch dash attack like they did f-tilt I swear I will quit playing.
I just learned by getting hit and not paying full attention to patch notes, that link's d-air can now no longer be teched.
So they've given link - already a kill throw - improved tether grab startup, end-lag, range and combo ability AND they improved his d-air so there's no more guesswork involved...

I literally screamed at my TV and cursed some guy in Japan to a horrible death.
Sorry, had to vent frustration.

 

[Hark17ball]

Basically every other character in the game has gotten my personal wishlist.
Dash attack is a great move as is, it's designed to combo very well, I understand the frustration of missing, but really if they touch dash attack like they did f-tilt I swear I will quit playing.
I just learned by getting hit and not paying full attention to patch notes, that link's d-air can now no longer be teched.
So they've given link - improved tether grab startup, end-lag, range and combo ability AND they improved his d-air so there's no more guesswork involved...

I literally screamed at my TV and cursed some guy in Japan to a horrible death.
Sorry, had to vent frustration.

Wait, you can't tech it but our Utilt and Dair.... Heh, this is a new feeling, To bad it's overshadowed by this UNYIELDING RAGE!

 

[White_Pointer]

So they've given link - already a kill throw - improved tether grab startup, end-lag, range and combo ability AND they improved his d-air so there's no more guesswork involved...

Link has a kill throw? Toon Link has a kill throw with back throw but regular Link doesn't have a kill throw as far as I'm aware. I mean yeah up throw kills eventually but I wouldn't really call it a kill throw.

 

[Hark17ball]

Link has a kill throw? Toon Link has a kill throw with back throw but regular Link doesn't have a kill throw as far as I'm aware. I mean yeah up throw kills eventually but I wouldn't really call it a kill throw.

But when your both on Game 3 at 120% whose grab is now much scarier??
Heaven forbid you get grabbed on a platform!

 

[Vyrnx]

Link has a kill throw? Toon Link has a kill throw with back throw but regular Link doesn't have a kill throw as far as I'm aware. I mean yeah up throw kills eventually but I wouldn't really call it a kill throw.

Uthrow kills at very reasonable percents, 150-160 no rage 130-140 with rage. Not high percents, it is definitely a reliable killthrow and one of the few killing uthrows (it used to be one of very few but with new characters/buffs to other uthrows, it isn't anymore). Link's grab game makes me laugh. Like, it is so much better than Samus'. His grab I would argue is actually good, speedy, great range. Dthrow combos, depending on the character, are either meh or pretty good. Not amazing, anyone who says he has guaranteed dthrow combos at all percents (which people say a lot) are lying. On medium to fast fallers he will definitely get an utilt up to mid percents, usmash on some, wrecks air dodges ofc with usmash/fsmash that kill super early, no DI will get uaired and probably killed. But I would argue even his throw combo game is more reliable than Samus', a kill throw, and a better grab. Plus with his trap game it isn't actually remotely hard to land a grab when you need one.

 

[meleebrawler]

Uthrow kills at very reasonable percents, 150-160 no rage 130-140 with rage. Not high percents, it is definitely a reliable killthrow and one of the few killing uthrows (it used to be one of very few but with new characters/buffs to other uthrows, it isn't anymore). Link's grab game makes me laugh. Like, it is so much better than Samus'. His grab I would argue is actually good, speedy, great range. Dthrow combos, depending on the character, are either meh or pretty good. Not amazing, anyone who says he has guaranteed dthrow combos at all percents (which people say a lot) are lying. On medium to fast fallers he will definitely get an utilt up to mid percents, usmash on some, wrecks air dodges ofc with usmash/fsmash that kill super early, no DI will get uaired and probably killed. But I would argue even his throw combo game is more reliable than Samus', a kill throw, and a better grab. Plus with his trap game it isn't actually remotely hard to land a grab when you need one.

On the other hand, Samus has a killing projectile to trap with instead, which also does double duty as a shield buster. Link can't threaten shields the same way (but then, very few can), and his dash attack is very slow, unlike Samus's which is blindingly fast and starts great combos.

Seriously, Samus is probably the most consistent shield breaker in the game. Everyone else usually needs a hard read to do it but Samus only needs a shot ready and one good poke.

Not defending her grab game or anything like that, but to me it's not hard to see why it is the way it is. Gotta look at the whole picture.

 

[JAZZ_]

On the other hand, Samus has a killing projectile to trap with instead, which also does double duty as a shield buster. Link can't threaten shields the same way (but then, very few can), and his dash attack is very slow, unlike Samus's which is blindingly fast and starts great combos.

Seriously, Samus is probably the most consistent shield breaker in the game. Everyone else usually needs a hard read to do it but Samus only needs a shot ready and one good poke.

Not defending her grab game or anything like that, but to me it's not hard to see why it is the way it is. Gotta look at the whole picture.

We do, I understand how you can look on and wonder why we say what we do. that all looks good on paper but in a game where characters have generous ways of dealing with CS it's in no way an excuse for grab being bad. Try playing as Samus in a competitive 1 on 1, try grabbing, and watch as disgust will hit your face. Try trapping a fox with CS, or a Mario. Try breaking a captain falcons shield as he rushes you down and combos you to pieces. Try projectile pressuring a patient campy little mac.
Or wait this is better, TRY SHIELD GRABBING PERIOD, 1 projectile doesn't justify a move being so situational is basically useless, high high risk, very very little reward. Other characters have good moves too with a grab THAT WILL ACTUALLY BE FAST ENOUGH TO GRAB. Sorry for the sauce but I don't see how on earth you can justify samus' grab being like it is because of her Charge Shot.

I'm sure the other, more experienced Samus' will COMPLETELY back me up.

 

[meleebrawler]

We do, I understand how you can look on and wonder why we say what we do. that all looks good on paper but in a game where characters have generous ways of dealing with CS it's in no way an excuse for grab being bad. Try playing as Samus in a competitive 1 on 1, try grabbing, and watch as disgust will hit your face. Try trapping a fox with CS, or a Mario. Try breaking a captain falcons shield as he rushes you down and combos you to pieces. Try projectile pressuring a patient campy little mac.
Or wait this is better, TRY SHIELD GRABBING PERIOD, 1 projectile doesn't justify a move being so situational is basically useless, high high risk, very very little reward. Other characters have good moves too with a grab THAT WILL ACTUALLY BE FAST ENOUGH TO GRAB. Sorry for the sauce but I don't see how on earth you can justify samus' grab being like it is because of her Charge Shot.

I'm sure the other, more experienced Samus' will COMPLETELY back me up.

Because it's a tether (and a very long one at that), and being slow is just par for the course. Even Zero Suit Samus can't shieldgrab well. The only reason Lucas got a buff to his grab's speed (still too slow to shieldgrab reliably though) is because his isn't very long compared to other tethers.

Most of the time complaints about Samus's lie not with it's slowness (because again, that's the price you pay for a tether), but it's relative lack of reward. This is somewhat mitigated by the combo potential elsewhere in her moveset, like her dash attack and uair.
Mewtwo's throws are actually quite similar to Samus's, just with more damage and knockback (enough to kill in some cases). He hardly gets any followups from them either, but it works out due to the great combos from his tilts and Shadow Ball.

In short, her grab is slow because it's a tether, simple as that, and she doesn't get as much out of it because her rewards lie elsewhere. It is perhaps a little TOO undertuned (like how pre-patch Mewtwo wasn't quite fast enough for his low weight), but I don't see her getting a massively effective throw anytime soon, at most a reasonable kill throw. I mean... what can Link do to a shield that is actually threatening and isn't a grab? He NEEDS a threatening grab, much more than Samus does.

Oh, and just because a design doesn't work in practice, it doesn't nullify the intent.

 

[Hark17ball]

Because it's a tether (and a very long one at that), and being slow is just par for the course. Even Zero Suit Samus can't shieldgrab well. The only reason Lucas got a buff to his grab's speed (still too slow to shieldgrab reliably though) is because his isn't very long compared to other tethers.

Most of the time complaints about Samus's lie not with it's slowness (because again, that's the price you pay for a tether), but it's relative lack of reward. This is somewhat mitigated by the combo potential elsewhere in her moveset, like her dash attack and uair.
Mewtwo's throws are actually quite similar to Samus's, just with more damage and knockback (enough to kill in some cases). He hardly gets any followups from them either, but it works out due to the great combos from his tilts and Shadow Ball.

In short, her grab is slow because it's a tether, simple as that, and she doesn't get as much out of it because her rewards lie elsewhere. It is perhaps a little TOO undertuned (like how pre-patch Mewtwo wasn't quite fast enough for his low weight), but I don't see her getting a massively effective throw anytime soon, at most a reasonable kill throw. I mean... what can Link do to a shield that is actually threatening and isn't a grab? He NEEDS a threatening grab, much more than Samus does.

Oh, and just because a design doesn't work in practice, it doesn't nullify the intent.

Samus is combo based but she suffers from VERY strict Windows. ZSS moves FAR quicker so that slow grab isn't nearly as bad and she also has set knock back, a snap, and gets way more off her grab. Shouldn't hers be like ours then? Garbage?

If they do to Samus what they did to M2 with slightly less lag on moves and a little speed buff it would probably help her immensely. The grab of hers is just way to little reward when you have people who can get so much off grabs i.e. ZSS, Sheik, DK, Bowser, Lucas

 

[Xygonn]

Because it's a tether (and a very long one at that), and being slow is just par for the course. Even Zero Suit Samus can't shieldgrab well. The only reason Lucas got a buff to his grab's speed (still too slow to shieldgrab reliably though) is because his isn't very long compared to other tethers.

Most of the time complaints about Samus's lie not with it's slowness (because again, that's the price you pay for a tether), but it's relative lack of reward. This is somewhat mitigated by the combo potential elsewhere in her moveset, like her dash attack and uair.
Mewtwo's throws are actually quite similar to Samus's, just with more damage and knockback (enough to kill in some cases). He hardly gets any followups from them either, but it works out due to the great combos from his tilts and Shadow Ball.

In short, her grab is slow because it's a tether, simple as that, and she doesn't get as much out of it because her rewards lie elsewhere. It is perhaps a little TOO undertuned (like how pre-patch Mewtwo wasn't quite fast enough for his low weight), but I don't see her getting a massively effective throw anytime soon, at most a reasonable kill throw. I mean... what can Link do to a shield that is actually threatening and isn't a grab? He NEEDS a threatening grab, much more than Samus does.

Oh, and just because a design doesn't work in practice, it doesn't nullify the intent.

It is a tether, but Link, Tink, and Lucas tethers have gotten MAJOR frame buffs. Link, Lucas, and Tink have kill throws. ZSS can combo into uair upb at relevant kill percents. Samus gets eh, low percent combos on dthrow. ZSS even gets more active frames on her grab. I understand the need to avoid Throw -> CS true combos.

I do think it would be totally reasonable to give Samus an approximately 150% kill throw (uthrow).

 

[meleebrawler]

Samus is combo based but she suffers from VERY strict Windows. ZSS moves FAR quicker so that slow grab isn't nearly as bad and she also has set knock back, a snap, and gets way more off her grab. Shouldn't hers be like ours then? Garbage?

If they do to Samus what they did to M2 with slightly less lag on moves and a little speed buff it would probably help her immensely. The grab of hers is just way to little reward when you have people who can get so much off grabs i.e. ZSS, Sheik, DK, Bowser, Lucas

Samus is a brawler/gunner hybrid, ZSS is a brawler all the way. She can poke shields but not threaten them, and there's not a whole lot she can do to increase the odds of her grabbing, and of course she can be punished heavily on a miss. It's her most rewarding punish because her dash attack is just OK and her smashes are weak.

A somewhat similar case for your examples. Bowser and DK can't threaten from a distance and have a hard time getting their grabs due to big size and attack lag. Lucas is also slow-moving with only OK range. Sheik has no trouble getting grabs but her actual reward isn't that impressive and her 50-50s can be dodged if you're on point.

Giving Samus less lag is a risky prospect due to the fast startup on most of her moves. As for her aerials, fair already got a landing lag buff, nair and uair have almost no lag and bair is safe on shield after the shieldstun update. For the movement speed, well consider that Mewtwo is really light and Samus is heavy.

Playing her, the only things I'd like are for Screw Attack to be more consistent and have one higher-knockback throw. You CAN rack up damage without grabs, so creating space to charge is the only real hole in Samus's gameplan.

 

[Hark17ball]

Samus is a brawler/gunner hybrid, ZSS is a brawler all the way. She can poke shields but not threaten them, and there's not a whole lot she can do to increase the odds of her grabbing, and of course she can be punished heavily on a miss. It's her most rewarding punish because her dash attack is just OK and her smashes are weak.

A somewhat similar case for your examples. Bowser and DK can't threaten from a distance and have a hard time getting their grabs due to big size and attack lag. Lucas is also slow-moving with only OK range. Sheik has no trouble getting grabs but her actual reward isn't that impressive and her 50-50s can be dodged if you're on point.

Giving Samus less lag is a risky prospect due to the fast startup on most of her moves. As for her aerials, fair already got a landing lag buff, nair and uair have almost no lag and bair is safe on shield after the shieldstun update. For the movement speed, well consider that Mewtwo is really light and Samus is heavy.

Playing her, the only things I'd like are for Screw Attack to be more consistent and have one higher-knockback throw. You CAN rack up damage without grabs, so creating space to charge is the only real hole in Samus's gameplan.

If she's a brawler hybrid they gotta make Jab/Ftilt safer than after 45%. The nerf to Ftilt back in...1.0.6 was it? Was not needed.
Looking at ZSS if you ever hit her shield she has a Frame 1 Jab, Frame 3 Utilt (which kills mind you) and Ftilt which I believe is frame 4.

A slight speed increase in asking she goes from...33rd to like 27th or something. That would help on the Dthrow not linking on people when someone's over 20%.
Missiles don't threaten anyone and have no push back. It's to easy to Hit through them or shield and then hit Samus.

I'm not saying give me everything! But they need to make her react faster off of Bombs/Missiles if they want her to trap people, or make her Jab/Ftilt better "get off" me moves and slightly help her grab.

90 Frames on a Pivot Grab is ridiculous!

*edit* that's why I am for patches...you can just slowly change/help characters a little at a time. Unless your Ike who got 4 great patches in a row haha

 

[DungeonMaster]

meleebrawler The disparity between Samus' tether and other tethers right now really makes no sense. If the other tethers had remained as they were out of the box, there would be a solid argument for just saying "it's the worst, ours are not much better, get over it". Someone's gotta be worst, we don't have to be all even. I think most of us are willing to accept some degree of disparity for the other benefits the character has.
But right now as stands, the angle chosen for knockback, the ridiculous startup, endlag, really the whole package is now very discrepant with the other character's tether patches. If everyone else gets better, then you're left behind.
And this really is a game of paper-rock-scissors, grab-shield-attack. If you're going to make one of those options *the worst* you need to compensate heavily in the others, moreso than has been done.
Right now just attempting a grab with Samus competes un-favourably with some of the slowest, most damaging smash attacks in the game and the relative reward is not even close. DDD's f-smash ends sooner than a simple pivot grab, no joke. It's stupid design, I mean, there's no other way to say it, it's stupid. You would have to be dumb to code those numbers in.

 

[NamelessHunter]

They could push Samus's bonus sheild damage. This way she still has a way to fight shields, but theu don't have to buff her grab. This would also continue the time honored tradition of Samus's bonus shield damage and horrible grab frames, so no fundemental change to the character would be needed.

Who doesn't love shield breaks?

 

[JAZZ_]

They could push Samus's bonus sheild damage. This way she still has a way to fight shields, but theu don't have to buff her grab. This would also continue the time honored tradition of Samus's bonus shield damage and horrible grab frames, so no fundemental change to the character would be needed.

Who doesn't love shield breaks?

Samus already has amazing shield break capability. You could say shes one of the best shield breakers in the game. Bomb > CS all day.

 

[Xygonn]

They could push Samus's bonus sheild damage. This way she still has a way to fight shields, but theu don't have to buff her grab. This would also continue the time honored tradition of Samus's bonus shield damage and horrible grab frames, so no fundemental change to the character would be needed.

Who doesn't love shield breaks?

I'd happily take a +3 instead of +1 on the strong hit of zair as a nice buff. Would make zair shield pressure a real thing.

 

[meleebrawler]

Samus already has amazing shield break capability. You could say shes one of the best shield breakers in the game. Bomb > CS all day.

Bomb -> Screw Attack can also work while recovering, if it doesn't poke.

 

[NamelessHunter]

I'd happily take a +3 instead of +1 on the strong hit of zair as a nice buff. Would make zair shield pressure a real thing.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[White_Pointer]

So I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but they put out another Japanese video today after the Niconico tourney. This one shows Pit and Marth in a FFA with Bayonetta and Corrin.

What's interesting about this video is that it looks like Marth has got some nice buffs.

https://twitter.com/sma_poke/status/693651270008066050

If this is true, then it looks like they are buffing some of the lower characters so I'm holding onto some hope that our girl Samus might be shown some love too. We have less than a week to find out.

 

[Afro Smash]

S-sakurai won't forget us this time r-right?

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

Jesus! I didn't think we'd get the next patch so soon! I expected mid-to-late February. Maybe this patch will be the one to answer our prayers? *Fingers crossed*

On a side note. If we're some of the few that DON'T get buffed this patch, I will literally flip ****. At that point I think some serious actions would need to be taken in order to stop this nonsense. And God forbid if he even thinks about nerfing anything in our arsenal.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Well, one thing is for sure: he's seen several tournaments personally now, and if the high tiers do not get NERFED, we know he wants the game to be the way it is in reality, not just his imagination.

 

[Gypsy_Panic]

Well, one thing is for sure: he's seen several tournaments personally now, and if the high tiers do not get NERFED, we know he wants the game to be the way it is in reality, not just his imagination.

I find this really interesting. I'm hoping him seeing the top teirs in action helps tone them down a bit. Nothing severe or drastic. Just a smidgen. Now, he if power nerfs them to almighty hell, then we have a problem. This will only prove Sakurai has no idea wtf he's doing.

I know I'm being a little overly negative towards Sakurai. But until we and the other low teir characters get the proper attention and buffs we need, I'm gonna be pretty upset.

 

[White_Pointer]

Thing is, Abadango won Niconico with Meta Knight. Nairo took second with ZSS and a Sheik player took third, but a Meta Knight won the tourney. And this was in front of Sakurai.

But yeah, if Marth is getting buffed, I'm holding out hope that Samus and other lower tiered characters might finally get some attention. I don't know of any of the top tiers would be getting nerfed but it'll be nice if that happened too.

Feb 4th (Feb 3rd in US) is the day we find out.

 

[FlAlex]

So I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but they put out another Japanese video today after the Niconico tourney. This one shows Pit and Marth in a FFA with Bayonetta and Corrin.

What's interesting about this video is that it looks like Marth has got some nice buffs.

https://twitter.com/sma_poke/status/693651270008066050

If this is true, then it looks like they are buffing some of the lower characters so I'm holding onto some hope that our girl Samus might be shown some love too. We have less than a week to find out.

0:08- Corrin has a long sliding pivot f-tilt apparently.

0:23- Corrin's F-smash is relatively safe on shield, given it's length

0:26- The Crap! Corrin has the jump height of Falco?

0:44- Corrin almost dies off the corner of a stage at 78%? Whew, their light.

1:40- WOW! Corrin has some long disjoints.

If Corrin is left the same as in this match, then I can see Corrin being at least mid-tier, definitely better than Cloud, and already a threat to Samus. Corrin is floaty enough to edge guard, and edge-guard with quick, Shulk-long disjoints. Not looking forward to this MU for Samus (I might just second them though).