Patch 1.0.6 Discussion/Placebo Effect General

[IPoD Max]

Can we somehow confirm the reduced landing lag on nair? Thinkaman, in the big thread, said he tested it and nair was unchanged.

 

[LostinpinK]

I admit that 2 frames is shorter than looking away between my 3DS and my Wii U.
We need someone with a 60fps camera to test this out.
I must say that during gameplay I felt like it was shorter, though.

 

[Zeriora]

Is it me or was meta knights fair range increased, can someone confirm this to me please?

 

[Kaffei]

Is it me or was meta knights fair range increased, can someone confirm this to me please?

It's just you

 

[ZSaberLink]

I was on the Sonic character forums and Seagull was saying everyone was overreacting to the Sonic Nerf. His Backthrow kills about 10% later now, which doesn't seem like a big deal to him (and I'd agree). I wouldn't get too excited.

 

[LostinpinK]

10%? I'm pretty sure that it killed incredibly early before, like 110% on the sides without rage. Now I survive past 140% very easily. Maybe he tested without DI on the sides and remembered the number with DI miidle stage or something?
I can't test it extensively but I'd be really surprise if it was only 10%.

 

[W.A.C.]

I tested Sonic's back throw in training mode at the very edge of the stage (it was either FD or an omega stage) and it wouldn't kill until around 145%. Coupled with the fact that it's now more difficult for Sonic to be able to rack up percentage as much as he previously could, it's now much harder for him to get back throw kills. Granted, rage obviously helps but yeah, nerfs hit Sonic pretty hard.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I tested Sonic's back throw in training mode at the very edge of the stage (it was either FD or an omega stage) and it wouldn't kill until around 145%. Coupled with the fact that it's now more difficult for Sonic to be able to rack up percentage as much as he previously could, it's now much harder for him to get back throw kills. Granted, rage obviously helps but yeah, nerfs hit Sonic pretty hard.

Training mode doesn't factor in rage. All his moves except full charge spindash do the same damage (Lessened by 3%).

's biggest nerf was his 2nd hit of utilt. wasn't nerfed at all for the most part. If anything, I'd say he was buffed since his homing attack no longer targets objects (Luma, can, pikmin, items). It only targets players now.

10%? I'm pretty sure that it killed incredibly early before, like 110% on the sides without rage. Now I survive past 140% very easily. Maybe he tested without DI on the sides and remembered the number with DI miidle stage or something?
I can't test it extensively but I'd be really surprise if it was only 10%.

It's character dependent. Some characters like and didn't die till high percents before the patch. I've killed at 120% without rage, at 100% in rage, and around 100% in 1.0.6, whereas I killed them like 10% earlier pre-patch.

Note: I'm considering all bthrow's to be at the ledge. They never killed from the center of the stage unless one was at an insane percent. Even then, Fthrow is the same so still can kill characters with Fthrow if they stay in the middle and are at high percents.

 

[LostinpinK]

Thanks for the clarifications. He might be our only counter then, since the rest is, imo, manageable.

 

[Pale Tuna]

<.< I can't seem to find anything too different on MK.

 

[warionumbah2]

<.< I can't seem to find anything too different on MK.

His bad MUs got nerfed, his lag instal on his cape is gone, his bad MUs got nerfed, he decimates the new dlc character adding one more good MU on his list, his bad MUs got nerfed.

That's his changes.

 

[Pale Tuna]

Hmm. What is "lag instal?"

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Lag install is another name for RCO (Recovery Carryover) lag.

In this case:

Dimensional Cape has the ability to be auto canceled at about short hop length. If you don't auto cancel Dimensional Cape while landing from the air, you suffer significant landing lag. Prior to this patch, even if you auto canceled the move, you would experience the lag the next time you leave the ground and land. (The lag you avoided gets 'carried over' to your next landing. This prevented MK mains from being able to use Dimensional Cape more in practical settings because of the fear of being caught in RCO lag (its enough to where you're gonna eat a Smash attack for sure). The removal of this is subtle but a nice buff as it allows more use of a solid mixup movement option.

 

[Pale Tuna]

Thanks for the informative clarification! Never knew dimensional cape could be auto-cancelled, or I just never thought of it when using it lol.

 

[Oblivion129]

Can someone try to see if angling the Side B downwards produces the spike from before?

 

[V23]

Can someone try to see if angling the Side B downwards produces the spike from before?

Already did it 50 times yesterday vs alot of characters (high level humans no cpus)

 

[Oblivion129]

Already did it 50 times yesterday vs alot of characters (high level humans no cpus)

Ok thanks! That's cool. Seems only glitches were fixed on MK which is great.

 

[FoGxTempest]

I'm still confused about the cape landing lag reduction, Probably doing it wrong or something. Katakiri, can you maybe use this tech in your next video? Maybe a 1v1?

 

[warionumbah2]

Omg its not a technique, imma dumb it down: after using cape a glitch made MK suffer from lag the next time he lands on the ground,now its gone.

 

[X1Type1]

Hey guys were you always able to have very little landing lag with shff fair? (shprt hop fast fall fair)
Im going from like the first two hits into foward tilt every time.

 

[W.A.C.]

Now that the top three characters in the game have been nerfed, are there any horrendous matchups for Meta Knight anymore? Diddy Kong's lack of kill power outside of his ground based attacks is so frustrating that he is nowhere near as much fun as he used to be. I can deal with all of his nerfs, except his forward air nerf. That was super overkill. I've also never been the type of player who liked to rely entirely on grabs for kills, so having to rely on up throw up air to get aerial kills under 150% is just not appealing. Really ****ing sucks, because playing as Diddy Kong in Smash 4 was some of the most fun I've had playing as any character in any game prior to the patch. I hate Sakarai so much.

 

[FlamingForce]

Now that the top three characters in the game have been nerfed, are there any horrendous matchups for Meta Knight anymore? Diddy Kong's lack of kill power outside of his ground based attacks is so frustrating that he is nowhere near as much fun as he used to be. I can deal with all of his nerfs, except his forward air nerf. That was super overkill. I've also never been the type of player who liked to rely entirely on grabs for kills, so having to rely on up throw up air to get aerial kills under 150% is just not appealing. Really ****ing sucks, because playing as Diddy Kong in Smash 4 was some of the most fun I've had playing as any character in any game prior to the patch. I hate Sakarai so much.

Yeah I do kinda feel that sentiment..I was kinda hoping he wouldn't get nerfed TOO hard, just hard enough that picking him up wouldn't feel like playing something cheap, cos he was MAD fun.

 

[Sunstar]

When he uses his d-tilt, he now moves.a bit. I think he didn't do that in 1.0.5.
He now can can stand with his back to the ledge and do his down-B on the same spot without falling down resulting in a death. Seems like he goes forward a bit with his down-B now.

 

[W.A.C.]

When he uses his d-tilt, he now moves.a bit. I think he didn't do that in 1.0.5.

He always could.

 

[Ulevo]

Now that the top three characters in the game have been nerfed, are there any horrendous matchups for Meta Knight anymore? Diddy Kong's lack of kill power outside of his ground based attacks is so frustrating that he is nowhere near as much fun as he used to be. I can deal with all of his nerfs, except his forward air nerf. That was super overkill. I've also never been the type of player who liked to rely entirely on grabs for kills, so having to rely on up throw up air to get aerial kills under 150% is just not appealing. Really ****ing sucks, because playing as Diddy Kong in Smash 4 was some of the most fun I've had playing as any character in any game prior to the patch. I hate Sakarai so much.

Even though it's off topic, that forward air was honestly poor design. There was no reason to give a character like Diddy that much priority on a move that fast and strong. I still think his up air was the better move overall, but forward air single handedly invalidated a lot of characters.

 

[Sunstar]

He always could.

Really?
https://youtu.be/spTUVRHOTeQ?t=24s

 

[warionumbah2]

Really?
https://youtu.be/spTUVRHOTeQ?t=24s

Yes really, it takes more inputs to notice him moving. This is just another placebo effect.

For everyone else: MK had no changes other than the rco lag being taken out.

No more placebo stuff please, MK is the same.

Edit: Someone else already tested the nair, its the same and a 2 frame less landing lag buff won't help MK that much.

 

[W.A.C.]

[LINK]

So how will this change Meta Knight?

 

[Ulevo]

[LINK]

So how will this change Meta Knight?

It won't, honestly.

 

[FlamingForce]

It's honestly not THAT useful of a technique for any character.

 

[Ulevo]

It's honestly not THAT useful of a technique for any character.

It actually is on certain characters. Greninja has an excellent up tilt that can abuse it. Mario can use it well. I'm sure there are other characters. It's just not something worth remapping your entire controller for. Meta Knight doesn't gain a huge benefit from it either. Pivot down smash is the best it gets.

 

[Oblivion129]

Yep, Greninja could make use of it. Probably not game changing since I believe the harder way is faster. MK would be playing at mid-range anyways, so it won't affect him or his MUs, imo.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Full Hop Nair has some weird landing lag if you use it immediately. Not sure if the was present pre-patch.

 

[Ulevo]

Full Hop Nair has some weird landing lag if you use it immediately. Not sure if the was present pre-patch.

You talking about how it's lagless but has a sparkle animation? That was there pre-patch. The SFX comes out without a hitbox as well.

 

[Sol0ke]

For everyone else: MK had no changes other than the rco lag being taken out.

No more placebo stuff please, MK is the same.

I thought Katakiri confirmed nair landing lag was reduced from 20 to 18 frames?

 

[Yunior597]

Dimensional Cape (Down-B) landing lag bug removed? What does this mean?

 

[Ulevo]

Dimensional Cape (Down-B) landing lag bug removed? What does this mean?

If my calculations are correct, it means that Dimensional Cape (Down-B) landing lag bug was removed.

 

[Yunior597]

If my calculations are correct, it means that Dimensional Cape (Down-B) landing lag bug was removed.

>.> i need explanation what was the bug.

 

[warionumbah2]

Again with the cape thing? Just scroll up and read we already spoke about it, it shouldn't matter since its gone. -_-

 

[mitchman77]

im still learning meta knight, i really want to main him. anyone got some tips/combos to share? i usually play defensive. so im also wondering if u can play like that with meta knight.